SKS or Kalashnikov?

[MSGT9410]

the Muj in the Soviet/ Afghan war called it the "poison bullet" because of the internal damage it causes because of the design of the projectile

Isn't this more of a bad thing?

It got the name "poison bullet" because it didn't always outright kill its intended target, rather they died later after the battle was over. The bullet penetrated, but that's about all it did. It doesn't fragment, it just passes straight through its target, causing them to die aftewards due to the internal injuries.

 

[trickyasafox]

about 922r i could be wrong, and yea i think its odd but thats how it was explained to me. the rifle has to remain unaltered to stay a relic

 

[k_semler]

What do you want it for? If it's just for hunting, get the SKS. It's legal in most states. If you want it for range/TSHTF/suppresive fire/room clearing/cool/patrols/emergency hunting, (not legal), get the AK. Get at least one drum, and 6 magazines. Get a 1500rd assortment of JHP, FMJ, and SP.


Regarding 18 USC, Chap 44, Section 922, Subsection R:

It is illegal to assemble a firearms containing more than 10 components of foriegn origin as specified in 27 CFR section 178.39. It is illegal to assemble a firearm deemed to be illegal for importation for sporting purposes that consists of 10 or more parts of foriegn origin. To manufacture a weapon of non-sporting configuration, you are required to have no more then 10 foriegn parts as defined by 27 CFR section 178.39.

 

[Dacoda]

*scratches head*... thanks for clarifying that... I think.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Sniper, you must be thinking of something else. The SKS and the AK-47 are both auto-loading rifles. Neither is a bolt action.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

about 922r i could be wrong, and yea i think its odd but thats how it was explained to me. the rifle has to remain unaltered to stay a relic

Isn't that a law having to do with characteristics that make a gun legal to IMPORT? End users are not ordinarily reachable by import regulations. For example, if an import regulation states that orange shipments must be accompanied by an inspection sticker certifying that they are not infested with insects of any sort, the end user is not subject to government inspection to see if he still has a copy of that certification in his possession while the oranges sit in a bowl on his kitchen table. If ladders are required by import regulations to be able to support 300 pounds, that does not in any way bind the end user to keep it in that condition or be subject to a Federal Inspectors raid. The end user is free to remove parts on the ladder, and make is as flimsy as he chooses, if he thinks removing those parts makes it more useful to him in some other way, because end users are not ordinarily reachable by import regulations.

Could you quote the statement IN THE LAW itself that allows this regulation to reach end users in any way? If not, end users are allowed to do whatever they like to their rifles or oranges or ladders, so long as they do not violate a law regulating the general characteristics of those items while in their possession. Concerning firearms, there were three such Federal laws that I can think of (all of them, by the way, unconstitutinal, but that's another thread). One was passed in the 1940s, the other in the 1960s and then there was the assault weopon ban of (I believe) the 1990s, which has since sunsetted.

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

The bullet penetrated, but that's about all it did. It doesn't fragment, it just passes straight through its target, causing them to die aftewards due to the internal injuries.

This isn't the case. The 5.45 was designed to have an extreme haw once it entered soft tissue - in fact, 5.45 projectiles almost never go in and out of a human target. Look up the internal design of a 5.45 projectile, it has been designed with an empty air pocket that makes the bullet take a very ugly path inside the body. 5.56 was designed to fragment inside the body, while 5.45 was design to move around once inside - both do their intended target better than the other, and both have been extremely effective.

One of the real dangers with being hit with a 5.45 projectile is that a hit higher in the chest can move down into the intestines and create greater and greater internal bleeding.

 

[armoredman]

Have WASR. 3 inch group at 25 yards. Have Yugo SKS. 6 inch group at 100 yards. Both from the bench. More work needs to be done with WASR.

 

[Technosavant]

There is a bunch of talk about SKS legal issues at Survivor's SKS board.

The way I have read and understood it (and YES, the laws are purely insane), is that the Yugo 59/66 (the current widely available SKS) is imported as a C&R rifle. ANY changes from the original configuration void the C&R status, bringing you under the jurisdiction of section 922r (the 10 or less part game, as well as the infamous "sporting purposes" clause). This means you will need to remove the bayonet, grenade launcher, and night sights, as well as adding enough US made parts to reach the correct number. Such parts are easily available, but you end up doubling the price of the rifle.

The SKS is a good and reliable short to medium range carbine. I hate the sights, but not enough to void the status of my rifle and embark on a campaign of legalization (and when it's done, you are still doing good to be shooting 8 inch groups at 100 yards).

Like I said, as it is, the SKS is a good rifle. T'were I to stockpile a bunch of rifles, the shooter grade SKS is the easy pick. But it's just not worth going to the trouble of upgrading (IMO).

 

[Lonestar.45]

I've got both. I got the SKS first, and about six months later picked up a WASR.

To be honest, I like shooting my SKS much more, simply because it is more accurate. The AK is great because of the high cap mags and portability. But it stays in the safe for SHTF and when I want trigger time I take the SKS's to the range.

Recoil is negligible with the Yugo SKS. With the AK, it's still tame, but does recoil slightly more.

The SKS IMHO is slightly harder to clean, but the AK is not bad like an AR. I finished the wood on my WASR with 10 coats of tung oil and it looks great, changes the look completely.

If I were you I'd go with an unissued or excellent Yugo SKS, because they don't make 'em anymore and one day you'll wish you had. The WASRs are being churned out all the time and you should have no problem picking one up later if you still want one.

 

[roscoe]

ANY changes from the original configuration void the C&R status, bringing you under the jurisdiction of section 922r

I am not sure this is true. Just because it is no longer C&R does not make it so it is not a sporting rifle. You would have to make it 'non-sporting' by adding a pistol grip, or detachable magazine, etc.

 

[lesjones]

"projectiles almost never go in and out of a human target. Look up the internal design of a 5.45 projectile, it has been designed with an empty air pocket that makes the bullet take a very ugly path inside the body."

Most 7.62x39mm also has an air pocket in the bullet.

 

[Newton]

If you modify an SKS that was imported under 922(r) it does not automatically become illegal but it does remove itself from the protection of the C&R concessions.

So......you either need to play the 10 foreign made parts or less game OR you need to remove ALL of the illegal features and render the gun to be in a condition that would allow its importation as a "regular" sporting firearm.

For an SKS, specifically a Yugoslavian 59/66A1 which represents the bulk of the currently imported guns, that would mean the following:

1. Remove the grenade launcher and the barrel threads (or permanently cover them with a soldered flash hider etc)

2. Remove the bayonet and bayonet lug

3. Remove both front and rear night sights

This process is commonly known as "bubba'ing" and it seems like a very significant number of Yugo SKS rifles are being put through this process if only because that super long barrel, bayonet and grenade launcher make the rifle very nose heavy and over-long.

 

[Rexrider]

I would only get the SKS if you plan to leave it as-is. If you plan to tacticool it (high cap detachable mags, new stock, optics), then just get the AK.

The SKS is a reliable and fun little carbine, but those who really soup them up don't gain much in accuracy, and an AK would be the same price (and more reliable at its finish) than the whole build up. Depending on the SKS (if it's a Yugo 59/66) there's a fair amount of work in cleaning out the cosmoline (and if you plan to mod it, you have to begin by making it 922r legal; a fair amount of work and money itself).

Personally, the above qoute is the best way to decide which rifle you want.

If you want an AK, save up your money and by an AK. If you're thinking of buying a SKS and turning it into an AK on the cheap, it won't be cheap and it won't be an AK. Simple as that. What you will end up with is a very expensive non-reliable SKS.

I own 2 Yugo SKS (their like potato chips.....) They are rugged, reliable rifles with decent accuracy. Can't beat the price and I can't begin to think what it would take to break one. I didn't buy them for SHTF, HD/SD, or hunting (but they could easily fill those duties if needed). I just bought them because I think they are interesting rifles. They also happen to be fun to shoot. They are what they are and work best when left in their original configuration.

 

[rangerruck]

i hate with a passion, the boomerang or wishbone mags of the sks. now if that sks takes ak mags...

 

[Nashmack]

The rifles I buy are for hunting. The hunting that I do involves hunting paper at known distances, not delicious moving things at estimated distances. (I'm hungry just thinking about whitetail burgers!)

I like to throw a lot of lead downrange, and I dont particularly care to sit on the line loading mags.

 

[Stiletto Null]

My Yugo SKS is good for at least (most?) 4MOA.



Gas system was off, and I was taking my time. Didn't quite manage to avoid screwing up the trigger pull (LOOOONG and crunchy), but I did OK. 50yd on a half-size silhouette.

Recoil? What recoil? Mausers have recoil. My SKS just kind of pushes me back without me noticing until I'm teetering on my heels. (I forget to lean into the recoil sometime.)

 

[armoredman]

Shoot a Mosin M38, and never complain about milsurp recoil again - my SKS love taps.

 

[chopinbloc]

get the ak, then get the sks, then buy several more of each type.

anyway, i vote ak. you never know what kind of ugly laws the next president will sign. besides, i rest easier knowing that my guns make feinstein and clinton sit bolt upright in bed covered in a cold sweat.

 

[America_without_liberals]

So basically from how you guys are interpreting the law. All of the SKS that are for sale in Shotgun News that say they are CA Ok are illegal since they have been modified from the original configuration and no longer can be considered a C&R? The nonsensical AW ban of 94 has sunset and at least for now we can have fun toys. The law that had nothing to do with the functionality of the firearm but the appearance.

I have shot both and I have to say the SKS kicks much less due to the weight of the gun. They are both extremely fun to shoot. The box mag and stripper clips on the sks is great and with a little practice you can learn to load quickly. Don't waste the money on the duckbill mag.