Drav
Member
(And phone number.)
edit: And yeah I do think you did the right thing. Always trust your gut.
edit: And yeah I do think you did the right thing. Always trust your gut.
slightly odd situation....Question???
- Thread starter itgoesboom
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itgoesboom
member
Bacchus
Good question. Actually, she wasn't drinking anything at all. The cruise had come with one free drink for everyone, and the cruise director gave us 6 extra vouchers for drinks due to a miscommunication. The drink that she was given was too strong, so she only had 2 sips.
She never told them to back off. She told me yesterday how she can't understand how it's become impossible to talk to people without them thinking you are intrested in the sexually.
I should have stopped drinking early on, that was the biggest mistake. As it was, I only had 2 watered down mixed drinks in the 2 hours or so, and those were both in the first 20 minutes. I did stop drinking complety as soon as I started to figure out what they were up to, and that they weren't just a couple of guys out for a good time. Ofcourse, that was when I had just ordered my 3rd drink, and when it appeared that they were doing something to the drink.
Tony,
I wasn't too worried about the 2-1 odds. I am fortunate with the amount of h2h training I recieved from a young age, and I am in very good shape right now. I would have felt more comfortable had I been able to carry, but I already don't carry when I drink, and we had planned on going on this party cruise to drink and have a good time, so I doubt I would have carried. Still, I wish I could carry the rest of this vacation, since I know that atleast one of them is still on the property, since we saw him last night.
It's so hard to understand how dirtbags like this are tolerated in our society.
Texian Pistolero,
No, I don't think I will post a photo of her for you guys, she wouldn't like that. I did tease her a couple months ago when I took a photo of her with one of my pistols that I was going to have to post it on here so that she could find a boyfriend. I think the marriage proposals would have started within 30 seconds.
We only have 2 more nights before we leave, and one of those night we are going to be out horseback riding, and the other night my SIL will be hanging out with my wife and I and local that she is currently seeing here, so she will be in good hands.
I.G.B.
Good question. Actually, she wasn't drinking anything at all. The cruise had come with one free drink for everyone, and the cruise director gave us 6 extra vouchers for drinks due to a miscommunication. The drink that she was given was too strong, so she only had 2 sips.
She never told them to back off. She told me yesterday how she can't understand how it's become impossible to talk to people without them thinking you are intrested in the sexually.
I should have stopped drinking early on, that was the biggest mistake. As it was, I only had 2 watered down mixed drinks in the 2 hours or so, and those were both in the first 20 minutes. I did stop drinking complety as soon as I started to figure out what they were up to, and that they weren't just a couple of guys out for a good time. Ofcourse, that was when I had just ordered my 3rd drink, and when it appeared that they were doing something to the drink.
Tony,
I wasn't too worried about the 2-1 odds. I am fortunate with the amount of h2h training I recieved from a young age, and I am in very good shape right now. I would have felt more comfortable had I been able to carry, but I already don't carry when I drink, and we had planned on going on this party cruise to drink and have a good time, so I doubt I would have carried. Still, I wish I could carry the rest of this vacation, since I know that atleast one of them is still on the property, since we saw him last night.
It's so hard to understand how dirtbags like this are tolerated in our society.
Texian Pistolero,
No, I don't think I will post a photo of her for you guys, she wouldn't like that. I did tease her a couple months ago when I took a photo of her with one of my pistols that I was going to have to post it on here so that she could find a boyfriend. I think the marriage proposals would have started within 30 seconds.
We only have 2 more nights before we leave, and one of those night we are going to be out horseback riding, and the other night my SIL will be hanging out with my wife and I and local that she is currently seeing here, so she will be in good hands.
I.G.B.
FPrice
Member
itgoesboom...
Add me to the impressive list of people who think you were right. An aware person can pick up on things others don't see. The question to be answered is always, "How to handle it?".
Unfortunately you have a problem. A SIL who does not appear to think that bad things can happen to good people. I sincerely hope that she thinks about the situation carefully and develops some sort of awareness.
edited to add: Is there any Hotel Security you can talk to in order to voice your concerns? Not a threat but just voicing concern?
Add me to the impressive list of people who think you were right. An aware person can pick up on things others don't see. The question to be answered is always, "How to handle it?".
Unfortunately you have a problem. A SIL who does not appear to think that bad things can happen to good people. I sincerely hope that she thinks about the situation carefully and develops some sort of awareness.
edited to add: Is there any Hotel Security you can talk to in order to voice your concerns? Not a threat but just voicing concern?
sturmruger
Member
Sounds like things went pretty well all things considered.
Next time don't listen to your wife, women often don't want to make a scene or draw any attention. I think you could have headed this off at the pass if you would have confronted these gusy early on. The last two times I listened to my gut everything turned out. That little voice in the back of your head is usally right.
Next time don't listen to your wife, women often don't want to make a scene or draw any attention. I think you could have headed this off at the pass if you would have confronted these gusy early on. The last two times I listened to my gut everything turned out. That little voice in the back of your head is usally right.
Good awareness and selection of alteranative transportation. You should have directly confronted them and guarnateed them that you knew what they were doing and that you would have no qualms about blowing their cover to the tour and hotel. I agree that there may have been something wrong but there are a couple of questions. Why would a couple of serial rapists operate from a bus or a hotel? I doubt that they were planning on kidnap/rape/murder, but were probably much more likely a couple of scum working a date rape scheme where they cut one or two women out and get them "home" and drugged into submission. This is not much less horrible but would explain the fact that they didn't single out someone without an interested "guardian". As such telling them that the authorities would be informed of their "plans" may have put them off.
Considering criminal activity in vactation settings the boat, bus and hotel operators should have been interested in these 2. People like them can quickly wreck tourist business and tour operators and hotel operators don't want them around.
Any trouble suspected while on travel should be conveyed to hotel and tour operators as well as local LE.
Considering criminal activity in vactation settings the boat, bus and hotel operators should have been interested in these 2. People like them can quickly wreck tourist business and tour operators and hotel operators don't want them around.
Any trouble suspected while on travel should be conveyed to hotel and tour operators as well as local LE.
Bob F.
Member
igb: nobody goes to Hawaii without a camera--make sure you get a pic of the turds! Cops should be interested! Make sure the turds know ya' got 'em???
Stay safe.
Bob
Stay safe.
Bob
RevDisk
Member
"If a situation doesn't feel right, it probably isn't."
Good job all and all. Yes, you could have knocked off drinking earlier, but hey such is life. Nice job taking the taxi back instead of the bus. Always be as unpredictable to a threat as possible.
Things seemed to end well, so just think over how to do better next time. Don't dwell on it too much, but don't forget lessons learned.
Personally, I would have flat out asked them as I tend to be a direct person. Understandably, SWMBO must be listened to...
Good job all and all. Yes, you could have knocked off drinking earlier, but hey such is life. Nice job taking the taxi back instead of the bus. Always be as unpredictable to a threat as possible.
Things seemed to end well, so just think over how to do better next time. Don't dwell on it too much, but don't forget lessons learned.
Personally, I would have flat out asked them as I tend to be a direct person. Understandably, SWMBO must be listened to...
johnnymenudo
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2003
- Messages
- 98
I had a similar situation happens years ago. This was in New Orleans and the guys kept following us. I finally said to these guys that if they were going to insist on pestering us, I wanted to get a group picture so we could remember them and how annoying they were. When they both got all camera shy, I advised them that if they wouldn't pose for a picture with us that they should skee-daddle. When they didn't want to, I said well then just let me take a picture of you two - with that they turned and disappeared.
JM
JM
HankB
Member
Two guys hitting on one woman at the same time just doesn't sound right to me. I mean, if it was two guys hitting on two single women, that's one thing . . . or if one of them hit on the gal while the other was hanging back, that's not unreasonable.
But the situation you describe has "TROUBLE" written all over in in capital letters.
Your SIL is very, very lucky to have a BIL like you.
However, at some point, when my rudeness didn't keep the decoy from hovering around me, I would have been a bit more explicit and told him to leave me the h*&& alone and quit following me around.
But the situation you describe has "TROUBLE" written all over in in capital letters.
Your SIL is very, very lucky to have a BIL like you.
However, at some point, when my rudeness didn't keep the decoy from hovering around me, I would have been a bit more explicit and told him to leave me the h*&& alone and quit following me around.
itgoesboom
member
Photos would have been a good idea. I didn't even think of that. I took quite a few photos that night with my wifes digital, and I had tons of gear I could have used to get a shot of the 2nd guy when he was by the pool.
I really wish that I had just confronted them, and got it over with.
Fortunatly, we managed to get out of the situation, no one was hurt and all 3 of us learned lessons.
Better than learning the lessons the hard way.
I.G.B.
I really wish that I had just confronted them, and got it over with.
Fortunatly, we managed to get out of the situation, no one was hurt and all 3 of us learned lessons.
Better than learning the lessons the hard way.
I.G.B.
itgoesboom
member
Oh, and Hank...
They were definatly both hitting on her. But it was a co-ordinated effort, tag-teaming her.
I.G.B.
They were definatly both hitting on her. But it was a co-ordinated effort, tag-teaming her.
I.G.B.
At one point in your post you mentioned that your wife thought you were paranoid. You considered this as well. I also considered this--as multiple traits of paranoia were displayed.
Your SIL may be a sheep, but she has survived thus far without your protection. She is an adult.
Those guys were obviously trying to get you guys into bed. That's it.
Relax and try to enjoy your vacation.
Your SIL may be a sheep, but she has survived thus far without your protection. She is an adult.
Those guys were obviously trying to get you guys into bed. That's it.
Relax and try to enjoy your vacation.
itgoesboom
member
Curare,
My wife acted as though she thought I was paranoid.
After the fact, when we talked things through, she admitted that she had a bad feeling about these two characters as well.
She also agrees that they were up to no good, and that something bad was going to happen.
"Just because you are a paranoid, doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you"
Her biggest complaint is that she didn't want me to confront them, because it would ruin our night out. She wanted to ignore the threat, and hope that it went away.
I.G.B.
My wife acted as though she thought I was paranoid.
After the fact, when we talked things through, she admitted that she had a bad feeling about these two characters as well.
She also agrees that they were up to no good, and that something bad was going to happen.
"Just because you are a paranoid, doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you"
Her biggest complaint is that she didn't want me to confront them, because it would ruin our night out. She wanted to ignore the threat, and hope that it went away.
I.G.B.
RevDisk
Member
Someone once told me, "It's better to look like an idiot by err'ing on the side of caution than end up dead because you ignored your gut feelings." If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.
Some paranoia is probably healthy. Being overly paranoia is a bad thing. The key is to be somewhere between the two.
Just my two cents.
There will always be keyboard commando/psychiatrists.It is easy for some guy sitting in his living room to miss the true circumstances of your situation.I worked in a psychiatric facility for a long time, yet somehow I missed the display of multiple paranoid traits.I read every arresting/investigating officer's report I could.If more people were "paranoid" they would be alive today.You were there,I go with your assessment of the situation.As I said before,good call on the drink and the taxi.A disposable camera would be good also.
mondocomputerman
Member
Sounds like you did the right thing. Always trust your gut. I agree with some of the other posters, that sometimes it is a subliminal thing. Better safe than sorry, I'm proud you protected her. Even if she didn't realize it.
Gameface
Member
It sounds to me that you have no faith in your sister’s judgment. It also sounds like you feel that it is your privilege to choose who she associates with. You state that at one point your wife was able to do what the two guys couldn’t, which was to distract you. When they distracted you they did not drag your SIL away with force, but the soft spoken guy was dancing with her. Did you ask her if she agreed to dance with the guy? I’m guessing she did. I don’t think they stuck around because they wanted to victimize a woman who was with her sister and brother-in-law, but because she showed interest. Single men can be funny that way.
Although some of the behavior you describe seems odd, in particular that both were hitting on her, none of it sounds like they were preparing to rape her. I can think of an explanation for everything they were doing that seems as likely to me as the explanations you provide and doesn’t indicate any wrongdoing (unless you consider trying to get a date with your SIL a form of wrongdoing). I’ve been out with friends (before I was married) and been interested in the same girl that a friend was. You could decide for her or you could both let her decide. These guys obviously knew that you were actively trying to “protect†your sister from them. They were trying to overcome that obstacle because she continued to show interest.
I think you overreacted. That said, I wasn’t there and if it wasn’t an overreaction then you in fact saved your sister from a life-altering encounter that would have been devastating to her.
I want you to take my opinion in the respectful manner in which it was intended. In your opinion you were protecting family and I respect that.
Gameface
Although some of the behavior you describe seems odd, in particular that both were hitting on her, none of it sounds like they were preparing to rape her. I can think of an explanation for everything they were doing that seems as likely to me as the explanations you provide and doesn’t indicate any wrongdoing (unless you consider trying to get a date with your SIL a form of wrongdoing). I’ve been out with friends (before I was married) and been interested in the same girl that a friend was. You could decide for her or you could both let her decide. These guys obviously knew that you were actively trying to “protect†your sister from them. They were trying to overcome that obstacle because she continued to show interest.
I think you overreacted. That said, I wasn’t there and if it wasn’t an overreaction then you in fact saved your sister from a life-altering encounter that would have been devastating to her.
I want you to take my opinion in the respectful manner in which it was intended. In your opinion you were protecting family and I respect that.
Gameface
TamThompson
Member
I don't think he overreacted at all. There are still such things as sex slavery rings, you know. It sure sounds like these guys could have been trolling for a new hire. <shudder>
I would have made a scene, so that everyone else took notice of those guys.
I would have made a scene, so that everyone else took notice of those guys.
Muzzleflash
member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2004
- Messages
- 318
Obviously a pair of players acting in wingman fashion. In fact, I've heard people mention engaging in the same behavior (talking about being a good wingman, etc) on this very board.
This case was pretty creepy, though. Some guys get seriously into mind manipulation type things, NLP, speed seduction- it works on women.
Who knows what they wanted. Keyboard commando tendencies aside, if I had been there, if I could get away with it- I'd drug the two of them myself and leave them in a gay bar. Better yet, in the back of a gay bar.
This case was pretty creepy, though. Some guys get seriously into mind manipulation type things, NLP, speed seduction- it works on women.
Who knows what they wanted. Keyboard commando tendencies aside, if I had been there, if I could get away with it- I'd drug the two of them myself and leave them in a gay bar. Better yet, in the back of a gay bar.
itgoesboom
member
Gameface,
I will try to take you post in a positive light, but I will also try to address the things you mention.
1. I generally stay out of my SIL's love life, except for the fact that we had all been joking about her needing a man while on vacation, so we found her one. Other than that, her love life is just that; her's. Except in the rare case where I feel that she is in immenent danger.
2. I don't trust her judgement. She herself admits that she is naive, and doesn't see danger until it is right in front of her face. My talk with her addressed that concern.
3. They didn't drag her to dance with them; she said she felt abandoned, since my wife and I walked away to dance. Like I said before, she doesn't know how to say "no". During that time I was no more than 15 ft away from her.
4. Guys do often times try to get the same girl as their friend, but they don't activly plan and try to help out their "competition". When I was single, if I was intrested in a girl that my buddy was, great, game on, he is competion. I wouldn't be trying to help him score with the girl I was going after. Thats what these two were doing. One would act as watch or distraction as the other moved in, and they were switching it up.
5. Your right, the guys thought she showed intrest. What they didn't realize was that she would have been just as polite and friendly to anyone else. It's just the way she is, and it makes guys think she is intrested in them. Her personality is very flirty. In reality, she has told us that she didn't find either of them attractive, and was hoping to get out of a few of the conversations, but didn't know how to.
I.G.B.
I will try to take you post in a positive light, but I will also try to address the things you mention.
1. I generally stay out of my SIL's love life, except for the fact that we had all been joking about her needing a man while on vacation, so we found her one. Other than that, her love life is just that; her's. Except in the rare case where I feel that she is in immenent danger.
2. I don't trust her judgement. She herself admits that she is naive, and doesn't see danger until it is right in front of her face. My talk with her addressed that concern.
3. They didn't drag her to dance with them; she said she felt abandoned, since my wife and I walked away to dance. Like I said before, she doesn't know how to say "no". During that time I was no more than 15 ft away from her.
4. Guys do often times try to get the same girl as their friend, but they don't activly plan and try to help out their "competition". When I was single, if I was intrested in a girl that my buddy was, great, game on, he is competion. I wouldn't be trying to help him score with the girl I was going after. Thats what these two were doing. One would act as watch or distraction as the other moved in, and they were switching it up.
5. Your right, the guys thought she showed intrest. What they didn't realize was that she would have been just as polite and friendly to anyone else. It's just the way she is, and it makes guys think she is intrested in them. Her personality is very flirty. In reality, she has told us that she didn't find either of them attractive, and was hoping to get out of a few of the conversations, but didn't know how to.
I.G.B.
Gameface
Member
Your response to my post is pretty reasonable. I guess you got a bad vibe and tried to do what you could to protect your SIL. You sound like a level headed guy to me, so if you felt like these guys weren’t quite right then I would say that it’s better to err on the side of caution (sometimes referred to overreaction, see my post above) then to regret not doing anything.
Gameface
Gameface
I love my wife, and I respect her judgment.
But in defensive situations, she does not get to vote. (Unless she is being way more conservative than I am!)
If I think there's trouble, I make an a$$ of myself trying to disrupt it, and no one can stop me. On occasion, my wife has thanked me for being an a$$!
19th anniversary this month. We both want to see 20.
But in defensive situations, she does not get to vote. (Unless she is being way more conservative than I am!)
If I think there's trouble, I make an a$$ of myself trying to disrupt it, and no one can stop me. On occasion, my wife has thanked me for being an a$$!
19th anniversary this month. We both want to see 20.
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