Small 9's vs .380

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The_Shootist

The_Shootist

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I know we now have small "pocket pistol type 9mm handguns to rival small .380's (I'm talking Bersa/SIG/PPK size not Kel-Tec size). But does anyone think the 9 loses some of its punch in a 3" bbl - or is it still a large step up over the .380 in that bbl length?

Just curious - I love my Bersa .380 as a summer carry gun but the Kahr PM9 looks awfully good - both powerwise and concealability.
 
Hi ya Shootist,

9mm Parabellum versus .380 ACP?
No contest. Even if your piece was hoppped up on wildcat .380's (some >1,220 ft/s from a 3.5"), you're still short of 9 speeds and operating at a bullet-mass disadvantage. Of course, to each his own.

Wish the R9 was available over here... at a decent price.
A NIB Kahr MK9 here sells for close to 900 of your US dollars :eek:

Let me know when you get tired of that toy, and want to give it away, Chris.
:D


horge
 
I'm in no way an expert on firearms, but I think the 9 is better than the 380. Better FPS, energy, stopping power, plus the ammo costs less. Infact, I just recently traded my 380 Walther PPK/S (along with additional cash) for a NIB 9mm S&W model 908S. A good upgrade trade for me.
 
Get the Rohrbaugh R9s, spend the extra money and you won't be sorry( I just bought my 2nd one). This little gun is accurate and very concealable. Fit & finish is second to none. Anyone who bashes this pistol has probably not held or shot it. That being said, the recoil is stout & may not be for everyone. :neener:
 
I was going to upgrade from a 3" barrel .380 ACP to the Kahr PM9, because I feel 9mm in any barrel length is more powerful than .380 ACP. I didn't feel like spending the money for the Kahr, so I went with a .38 snub (which I feel is more powerful than .380 ACP). Anyhow, I feel 9mm is a better choice than .38 special and .380 ACP.
 
I purchased a used Kahr PM9 for $450. and am very pleased with it. For concealed carry in a 9mm it is hard to beat. In my case, the savings was great.
The night sights are very bright and the gun appears to be in almost new condition. There are bargains out there, you just have to be patient and know what you are willing to pay. You might be able to get it cheaper from an individual seller. I purchased mine from a dealer and felt that with the bright night sights and pristine condition, it was worth it.
Good luck!
 
A further plaudit for the PM9. I tried the KelTec P3AT which is admittedly more concealable than even the mini-sized PM9. I think with decent SD ammo the 380 will do a commendable job in most cases - you can get 1000fps+ and 200ft/lb+. However the 9mm increases the former a bit and the latter enormously - analogous +P ammo (the Rohrbaugh is a fine weapon and is slightly smaller than the Kahr but cannot handle +P and costs almost twice as much) coming in at around the 350 ft/bs mark. That makes a difference.

Even so my main reason for selling the KT was that it was, in my hands at least, far less accurate than the Kahr. It's not like I'm plugging quarter sized holes at 10 yrds with that either, but I can keep them all within a 4-5" circle at 21' shooting a t a pretty good clip so certainly feasible for the intended use given I'm nobody's idea of a great shooter. With the KT I occasionally - heck a bit more than that maybe - I missed the 8.5 * 11 paper altogether :eek: . I know some love their KTs but I certainbly give the Kahr much better marks in quality of construction and dependability too - only a couple hundred rounds so far - at least half +P by the way - but nada on the malf side yet.

Good deals? I'm still new enough to guns to have an inherent mistrust in my ability to buy used without missing some major flaws so I have only bough new so far. I had a good transaction with ordnanceoutsellers.com and bought an NIB PM9 with night sights for $565 shipped. A good deal I feel.
 
jehu said:
... Get the Rohrbaugh R9s, spend the extra money and you won't be sorry( I just bought my 2nd one) ...
Click to expand...
TRYING to order my SECOND Rohrbaugh R9S but having problems getting a hold of Eric.
 
Alan - hopefully Eric will be back on the scene soon.

MICHAEL T -
I believe I can get off better follow ups with my 380 than a small 9.
Click to expand...
- comparing a P3AT and R9 - I'm not so sure. I have sold my P3 but thinking of controlability etc - if grip is right then I really feel my R9 can get #2 off every bit as quick as P3. Another .380 platform might I admit be easier if it has more weight.
 
Hey Fud, I bought my 2nd one from a private seller NIB. He had bought 2 but found no need for it. It is a very early gun, one of the 1rst 50 out the factory door. I should have it Friday.
 
Tough to beat the Kahr line of pistols from both a cost point of veiw as well as a functional point of view.

I also agree that the .380 is in no way comparable to the 9mm. Technology is just now catching up in the .380, but there will always be limitations. As long as pock-sized 9mm pistols are in demand, the .380 doesn't make much sense beyond your own personal desires.

Good shotting and enjoy the hunt!

Peter
 
I'm Newt on the Rohrbaugh forum, you know me! :rolleyes: Check the sig. line, nobodies got that but me.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on the effectiveness of 9x19 out of a 3" bbl as opposed to .380 out of a 4" bbl?

In my first year of CCW I have discovered that the most important factor for my personally to be able to comfortably and effectively conceal a handgun, aside from a small overall size, is a thin profile. Every Kahr I've ever held, while they feel great, feels as "fat" as a Glock.

The desire for a slim profile led me to the Colt Govt. .380, however not being able to afford one I did some research and purchased a new Spanish-made Llama copy of the Govt. .380. It was my carry gun for quite some time after I had put 500 rds through it reliably. I still have it, but haven't carried it regularly since I acquired an FEG SMC-918.

With the Govt. .380-model's 4" bbl, loaded with 102-grain Remington Golden Sabres, that seems to me to be about as effective a compact .380 as you could get.
 
Just got my Hedley pocket holster today, he does real good work. Where in Pa. do you live Chris?
 
Good you have holster - yep - tho I have yet to enjoy one of RJ's holsters I have seen for a long time what fine work he does. Kevin too at K&D - another skilled fella.

Where? Find Bedford. Look for where I 99 crosses PA Turnpike (70/76) - about 10 miles from there to NW. :)

You? You don't show a location.
 
dmallind:

I just saw you use Rohrbaugh and 350 ft-lbs in the same sentence. While I don't doubt that there might be a load out there that delivers this in the R9, the highest energy I have seen produced by this gun is 305 ft-lbs. I can't recall the load, but I believe it was a 147-grainer.

The point here is that just because the gun is chambered in 9mm, doesn't mean it will perform the same as guns with longer barrels and tighter chambers.

As far as .380 versus 9mm - there is no comparison. Even a 3" barrel 9mm is way more powerful than the hottest chambering in .380
 
Given platforms of similar size and weight, I'll take a 9x19 over 9x18 or .380 ACP.

Two subjective observations: The lighter stock recoil spring on most locked-breech 9x19s makes racking the slide and other administrative functions easier for those with small or weaker hands, and felt recoil will generally be 'softer' with standard pressure ammunition as well.
 
ABBOBERG - FYI, doing my ammo tests thru R9, in fact IIRC best energy I noted was with GD's. Both 115's and 124's returned a figure of about 287. I doubt a std pressure thru that sub 3" barrel can do much better.

But let's face it - even that when possibly in ''bad breath'' range, is gonna hurt!
 
Given platforms of similar size and weight, I'll take a 9x19 over 9x18 or .380 ACP.
Click to expand...

I would call this a universally accepted fact. The only thing that .380 and 9x18 have going for them at this point in time is for the most part size and price. As mentioned above, a Kahr P-series is very impressive, but still has a fatter profile than many compact .380s out there, including the Bersas, Walthers, Govt. .380 models, and of course the Kel Tecs. These weapons are also popular with those of us who have limited budgets and simply cannot plunk down the change for an R9.

9x18 (9mm Makarov) is of course less of a consideration for most people because the vast majority of 9x18 weapons available are Makarovs, which are fantastic pistols (one lives on my nightstand) but not especially compact or light, and about as thick as a Kahr. I was fortunate to procure a very hard-to-find FEG SMC-918 several months ago, which is a Hungarian PPK clone (not PPK/S, this has the short grip and short slide of the PPK). It's a fantastically well-made weapon (good thing, because spare parts are hard to come by.), and is the smallest platform I know of chambered in 9x18 Mak.

(OT, a little-known fact is that 9x18 gives you about 1/100" greater bullet diameter than .380 and 9x19, .364" vs .355". Not very significant of course, just interesting.)
 
"Every Kahr I've ever held, while they feel great, feels as "fat" as a Glock."

That is wierd since the Kahr is one of the thinnest pistols on the market. It is less than a inch thick at the slide and not much thicker than that at the widest part. Maybe it is the square slide that makes it seem thick. I find my Kahrs to be easy to IWB carry and I don't often like that method due to the comfort factor. The Kahr feels fine IWB but I know a Glock would bother me.
 
Not guilty!
Well maybe - not sure whether I used them in the same sentence or not. I tend to use a lot of long sentences! However I didn't connect the two directly!


I even said that the R9 can't use +P. I used 9mm and 350 ft lbs together though, and actually slightly undershot (pun intended). My preferred SD round is the +P Gold Dot which is spec'd at 367. It shoots very well from my PM9 but not, as you are absolutely correct in pointing out, intended for a Rohrbaugh.

To be honest I don't know if it wouldn't fire reliably from one of them but I do know the company expressly says it is not intended to - and if I paid $900+ for a pocket gun I'd listen to em!

For the question about recoil: I can't speak about the heavier .380s but I can say the KelTec has far more felt snap to it than the Kahr. While physics may not imply this, the nature of the grip certainly makes it feel that way to me at least.
 
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