Small 9's vs .380

[The_Shootist]

PM9 vs Bersa

Yeah, I figure a PM9 is in my future - and probably pretty soon.

Its just that for the $ 500 or so I'd spend for the PM9, I could spend it on ammo practicing in my Bersa to get really good with the shot placement a .380 needs.

 

[CougarRed]

The problem with the .380 round is that it either penetrates, but doesn't expand, or it expands, but doesn't penetrate.

The 9mm round is far superior.

I carry the Kahr P9 Covert. Great gun. Very soft shooting with an AGrip on and Ranger T 147 in the pipe.

Never seen or held a Rohrbaugh, but I have read and heard about them. They are smaller than Kahrs, and more expensive. I have read where they kick pretty good (laws of physics do apply), the grips get slippery in hot humid climates, and they can be finicky about ammo. My gunsmith said he saw one that had "fallen apart."

Personally, I see no need as the Kahr P9 Covert fits in my pocket fine. Others love the Rohrbaugh. To each his own - glad we have the choice.

 

[Tomac]

All other factors being equal, of course take the 9mm over the .380.
However, if I can shoot a .380 faster & more accurately than a 9mm then I'm taking the .380.
All handguns are poor stoppers, regardless of caliber or bullet used. As long as the bullet has sufficient penetration to reach the CNS/heart/major arteries through intervening bone, tissue & clothing then it's "adequate" IMHO.
Tomac

 

[Rob1035]

IMHO, the 380 is a better round for tiny pistols. 9mm in certain size guns are just too difficult to shoot well (to me...). I'd much prefer to have a 380 and be able to shoot it well, than to have a 9mm I can't shoot well, or a 9mm that is too big to consistently carry

 

[DaleJunior]

Originally posted by cls12vg30
As mentioned above, a Kahr P-series is very impressive, but still has a fatter profile than many compact .380s out there, including the Bersas, Walthers, Govt. .380 models, and of course the Kel Tecs.

enough is enough.....just what the heck is a profile, anyway?

kahr p9 width = 0.90"

walther width = 1.08"

bersa width = 1.44"

colt .380 = 1.00"

 

[STOPPEMNOW]

I disagree

The 380 has more blunt force stopping power than a nine mill.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

In some chronograph data I've seen published, 9mm Luger from a three-inch (roughly two inches of actual rifled bore) barrel runs a 115-gr. bullet at 1000-1100 fps, more than any .380 is capable of.

 

[JH225]

Does anyone have real world experience with both the Kahr PM9 and the Rohrbaugh?

Both performance (as tested) and measurement wise.

 

[JR47]

The advent of the mini 9mm platform has opened up a new area of power. If I were buying a new pistol, I'd certainly look at the mini-9mm. IF I could control the weapon, and well enough to make me want to practice with it, it would be a viable choice. Same with the light-weight mini-.357.

If, however, I found the recoil objectionable, I would simply buy the .380, and go on with my life. Also, if my budget wasn't going to allow me to buy one of the mini-9mm pistols, so be it, back to the .380 ACP.

Two facts will always remain, the gun in your hand will always be superior to the gun that you're saving money to buy. Also, the gun that you practice with will be a better defensive weapon than the gun that you hate to shoot.

The power of the cartridge, length of barrel, design of hollowpoint, and so on won't make any difference if you don't hit the target.

If you can handle the recoil, and afford the cost, the 9mm is the clear winner. However, those two items are common enough concerns that they have to be considered, long and hard.

 

[dogtown tom]

STOPPEMNOW: The 380 has more blunt force stopping power than a nine mill.

Wow.

In one post you've:
1. Revived a thread almost four years old.:banghead:
2. Shown you have no knowledge of .380, 9mm or ballistics.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

While I agree that is wrong, and that 9mm is more powerful than .380, let's not be hostile to new people.

Welcome to THR!

 

[mrt949]

FYI .while i was at the shot show rohrbaugh showed their 380 .same gun different caliber and magazine .a little too expensive for me .but when insurance check from boating incident gets here

 

[meef]

And while I tend to agree that arguing with a 4 year old thread is a bit of an exercise in futility, I also agree with the sentiment, "let's not be hostile to new people."

It can take a little while to learn the ropes here and figure out just how everything works.

 

[NG VI]

Maybe he is talking about the bullet profile of common .380 rounds, are they more squat to keep OAL down like a .40?

 

[jocko]

If 380 has more blunt force what ever, then why it is not the weapon of choice for LEO.

Just ain't buyin in to that. It is a nice caliber, about as small as one should go for having any possable stopping power but it doesn't match up to a 9mm. Ur fooling ur self, IMO.

I own a lcp and a PM9 and I know which one is in my front pocket 24/7..

 

[saturno_v]

It's interesting that from this discussion, the fabuolous, time tested P-11 and the very good (so far) PF-9 are noticeably absent...how come?? They cost too little??

My P-11 with its pocket holster fits perfectly in any attire circumstance.

12+1 rounds (7 +1 in the thinner PF-9), +P rated, light, lifetime warranty....all under $300..what not to like??

Personally, I really cannot find any reason to shell out the significant extra $$ for a Kahr or other brands for a pocket piece.....

For me the 380 Vs. 9 mm debate for pocketable pistols is not even worth to be discussed...with the new ultra small nine, the .380 lost any appeal.
IMHO, even in a short barrel, the 9 has at minimum 60% or more of extra power and heavier bullets....being of the same caliber, no round count advantage either....to top it off ammo in 9 mm, on average, cost less....

The only reason to pick a 380 is if you have serious recoil issues in a pistol that small....or if you need to CC wearing only a speedo....other than that, nine all the way.

 

[meef]

saturno...

Couldn't agree more on the P-11.

It's one of my all-time favorite carry-anywhere pieces, and I've no shortage of much costlier (snobbier?) items to choose from.

 

[JH225]

originally posted by Jocko..

I own a lcp and a PM9 and I know which one is in my front pocket 24/7..

Since you have both the LCP and the PM9, which do you prefer for front pocket carry and is there that much of a difference between the two?

 

[M&PVolk]

I see Kahr recommended alot in this thread. I had a Kahr CW40 that was a complete jam-o-matic, and the customer service I received from the company will forever rule them out as a gun I would be interested in. My understanding is that the problems I experienced are even worse in their polymer lines. YMMV, as some people swear by their Kahrs, but I will never own another.

Instead, I carry a S&W M&P 40 or a Bersa .380. The M&P has been the perfect carry gun for me most of the time, but I can pocket carry the little Bersa when needed, and it has been 100% and gives you a lot of gun for your dollar. I personally lump the .380 and 9mm together as being "sufficient" for SD, with the .40 being the line where true power begins in a handgun.

 

[Hanafuda]

Some might consider this reply to be 'off-topic' especially since this is the autoloader sub-forum, but IMHO the snubnose revolver is the preferable .38 caliber concealed handgun, for five big reasons ...

1) no FTF or FTE worries - even frangible works 99.999%
2) versatile - use .38spl or .357mag (with the right gun)
3) can be fired from inside a coat pocket, repeatedly
4) can be fired when stuck directly up against something (ribs), repeatedly
5) no tell-tale brass left laying about (wait did I really say that? )

of course, ammo capacity and reloading are the negatives ... pick yer poison

 

[saturno_v]

I don't know much about Kahr pistols...some poeple I know have them and they shoots fine. I don't know about their Customer Service either

However I can tell you that I'm one of those people that I do not let myself be impressed by high price and glossy marketing material...for guns on anything else...I prefer to figure out myself if something is really good.

 

[viperstarbuck]

Chalk another vote for the PM9.

 

[Alan Fud]

Does anyone have real world experience with both the Kahr PM9 and the Rohrbaugh?

Yes. The R9 is easier to carry and conceal but the PM9 is easier to shoot more accurately and it has less felt recoil than the R9.

 

[Alan Fud]

STOPPEMNOW: The 380 has more blunt force stopping power than a nine mill.

Wow.

In one post you've:
1. Revived a thread almost four years old.
2. Shown you have no knowledge of .380, 9mm or ballistics.

If you MISS with the 9mm and HIT with the .380, then the .380 will have more stopping power.

 

[Alan Fud]

My P-11 with its pocket holster fits perfectly in any attire circumstance.

12+1 rounds (7 +1 in the thinner PF-9), +P rated, light, lifetime warranty....all under $300..what not to like??

The standard factory mag for the P11 holds 10 rounds. What mags are you using that fit 12?