Smith 642, Smith 340pd/MP, or PM9 for this summer?

[ArchAngelCD]

Even though many are voting for the M642 I still like my M638 Bodyguard.
I hope you don't mind a few pictures?

 

[Deanimator]

I would never trust my life to any S&W revolver with the Internal Locking System (ILS). My "no-dash" Chief's Special is an entirely different matter.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would never trust my life to any S&W revolver with the Internal Locking System (ILS). My "no-dash" Chief's Special is an entirely different matter.

I'm very happy for you that you have a nice old no-lock revolver but some of us aren't that lucky. Unfortunately I lived most of my life in NY City where guns are not allowed or I would probably have many to choose from.

I'm not fond of the ILS either but at the time I needed a J frame and this one was cheap. From everything I've read none of the .38 Special +P revolvers are locking up, only the ultra light heavy Magnums with extremely violent recoil like the M329PD are doing so. When I find a no-lock Bodyguard at a fair price I'll change over but I haven't been able to find one for over 2.5 years now. As you can imagine, not too many shooters are willing to let go of a no-lock J frame that's in good condition.

 

[orionengnr]

Over the last five years I've owned five or six j-frames, from steel M-49 to alloy M-37 to a 360 and two 340s.

The 37 was my first. Then I found the 49. Fun-er to shoot, but too heavy for CCW (at least it was for me, spolied by the 37).

I really wanted to try the 360, so I bought one. Then traded it in on a 340, then that on a 340 with the HiViz sights. (To be more accurate, I bought each used, selling the previous.)

Firing 357s in the 360/340 is more fun than I care to have, so they became really expensive, slightly lighter 38s. When I started reading about ILS issues, I started getting concerned. when it happened to someone I knew, I got a lot more concerned. The 340 went back in the safe, and eventually, went away.

The 37 was, for me, a decent compromise.

Then I bought a Kahr PM9. The 37 has been in the safe ever since. The Kahr is shorter in length, every bit as light, has much better sights and holds two more rounds. Even shooting +P or +P+, the recoil is much less than the 37. Carrying an extra mag gives me 14 rounds.

I pocket carry my PM9 at least nine months of the year. In the winter I try to IWB something larger. Usually a Kahr P45.

 

[jon_in_wv]

The sights are a big one for me. I'm not a Point shooting spray and pray guy, I use my sights. I shoot fast and I shoot accurately. The snubs have pretty bad sights with the exception of maybe the 340 with the XS sights. I wouldn't mind the 38spl. I think the Corbon DPX load and some others available have really brought the 38s potential out. I know the point shooters would tell me its perfectly possible to point shoot with the snub but am I really gong to put enough rounds down range in one of those hand cannons to become proficient? I'm not sure. I'm still stuck. I know what to expect with the snubs but I still wonder about the PM9 and some of the reliability issues I've read about. I've only handled one PM9 and it had a sweet trigger and seemed to fit my hand well.

 

[ryanl]

Well as most here will tell you, and im sure you already know. What fits you is very important. I voted for the 642 myself, I recently purchased a no lock 442 and a pocket holster. I have never owned anything but semi's until now. I have carried a glock 27, and a springfield xd9sc. I will tell you the 442 is the only one of the 3 I can assure you will never be sold. It is to me the perfect pocket carry weapon. Although i do agree the sights are not the best, i plan on replacing the factory stocks with some CT's. I have never handled the Kahr so i guess im a bit biased, but i definately like the j-frame better than any of the semi's i have. Oh ya heres a clip (no pun intended) for those of you who think revolvers are slow shooting and reloading

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisHfKj2JiI

 

[jad0110]

ryanl,

I never get tired of watching that video! Jerry M makes a 45 ACP S&W 625 sound like an M60!

 

[UnTainted]

9mm does really well out of a short barrel.

hit up speer's ammo website and look at the short-barrel info for their 9mm load.

 

[Navy joe]

Owned two Kahrs, traded them out for a 642. You won't be sending a 642 back to the factory near as much as the Kahr. The 340 is just going to bite you hard and then you won't like it anymore. Too much $$$ for that much pain, a 340 is better spent as two 642s.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Isn't there only 1.5 oz difference between the 642 and the 340? How can it kick that much harder if you use the same ammo?

 

[DougDubya]

Jon - it's more that the 340 is a considerably smaller mass than the 642. The Scandium frames are notorious for recoiling so hard that the bullets unseat themselves in the brass. The alloy airweights don't have those kinds of reports. I've also heard that the Sandium revolvers have grittier trigger pulls than the alloy and steel frames.

 

[DougDubya]

Even though many are voting for the M642 I still like my M638 Bodyguard.
I hope you don't mind a few pictures?

My favorite too, AA. And no, don't mind pictures of the Airweight Bodyguard at all. (I love that name.)

 

[jad0110]

Isn't there only 1.5 oz difference between the 642 and the 340? How can it kick that much harder if you use the same ammo?

Actually, the 340 is 3 oz lighter. That isn't much if you were starting with a gun that weighs 40 oz. That would be a 7.5% weight reduction. That same 3 oz removed from the x42 is a 20% weight reduction.

 

[jmt1271]

My hand has never come close to bleeding from my M&P340CT. I have never put more than 30 rounds thru it at a time, because of ammo costs, not pain. It is slightly more violent than the recoil from my 642.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Many votes for the 642 but very few reasons WHY?? Are we voting for it because we have it?? Or because it is truly the best choice? I would really like to hear some pros/cons for each.

You guys are right!! It is 3 oz. BUT the 340/360 are the only ones that have a pinned in front sight so I can replace the front sight with a night sight. Have any of you had a night sight installed on you 642?? How much did that cost? The sights on the snubs are pretty useless in low light and honestly I work during the day so I'm out with my family at night. That is the time I need good, high contrast sights the most. A font night sight might tip the scales all the way in favor of the 642. I know a lot of you are going with the CT laser but I don't have total faith in a 3 cent battery to work when I need it most.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I prefer the PM9 for its shooting qualities over any snubnose revolver (light or heavyweight) I've tried. It has far more manageable recoil and muzzle blast, a better trigger pull, real sights I can see, and two more rounds of what is arguably a more effective/efficient cartridge.

The shape of the gun at the back of the slide also makes it snag easier on your pocket when drawing than the low sloped back of the j-frame.

This I will give to the revolver. I need large pockets to draw the PM effectively without snagging, e.g., "relaxed-fit" jeans or cargo pants. But I am willing to dress around the gun for the increased hit potential that the PM gives me.

 

[Erik]

"Isn't there only 1.5 oz difference between the 642 and the 340? How can it kick that much harder if you use the same ammo?"

The 340 M&P is approx 1.5 oz lighter; the other 340s are approx 3 oz lighter, iirc.

1.5 ounces doesn't make all that much of a difference, practically speaking. 3.0 is noticably, but not significantly more so. Magnums out of the 3-series j-frames are quite another thing, though. (I fired them side by side just this week out of curiousity, as a matter of fact.)

 

[jon_in_wv]

I think I've come to the conclusion the M&P/PD 340 might be the best choice for me. It has the best combination of light weight, good lights, easy carry and concealment, and loaded with Powerball or DPX 110 HPs it shouldn't recoil too severely while still providing a good measure of stopping power. I want it primarily as a pocket pistol which I think gives it an edge over the PM9 as the snub revolvers are in my experience much easier to draw from the pocket and in a pinch could even be fired from the pocket. Thank you for all of your advice. The High Road really is a good crew of people.

 

[tiko_joe]

i own a s&w j-frame, i think its a great gun. its shoots very accuratly for being a snub nose and has always fired no matter what i did to it. I do carry this gun in the summer in a galco iwb j-clip holster. its real easy to draw sucks to re-holster ( doesnt matter other than training). What i am not under standing about this thread is everyone saying they carry it in their pockets. I live in Utah and here theres alot of laws governing when and how you may draw and/or shoot (for the most part if it doesnt involve your wife and/or child, you better make damn sure that you cant take the asilant with your fists). Heres the scenerio, here in Utah they got the 21' rule, your attacker can close a distance of 21' with a weapon in less than 1.5 secs, so thats the your self defense bubble. If your carrying in your pocket how can you reach in grab draw or even turn in side your pocket to shoot in 1.5 seconds? what if your on your back or nose to nose? most confrontations happen at point blank range. even with pocket holsters, a pocket draw is still awkarwd, and from what ive seen most pocket holsters cover the entire trigger guard which is what makes pocket carry safe for the individual and everyone around them. so how would you shoot from inside the pocket? any way i carry my j-frame in a j-clip holster from galco right above were my wallet goes in my back pocket. i can pull easy and shoot quick with out a full draw for those real intimate confrontations and yet can still get a bead on a target in less than 1.5 secs. i would go with the cw9 or p9 and carry a revolver as back up. the kahr carries more rounds than a revolver. simple. unless your gonna be defending your life in a movie most self defense cases invovling guns dont involve one shot one kill. most of the time the defender doesnt even remember shooting twice then the officer will tell them that they unloaded to mags, and will be dumb founded and the asilant will only one to two wholes in them. heres a statatistic i saw on that self defense tv show (out door channel), police train 80-80 percent of the time and in sittuations hit their target 20-30 percent of the time. for all you five round superstar champion shooters that carry an airweight body guard bad guys tend to do something that targets dont do when you shoot at them, take cover! you take a 5shot into a gun fight with how ever many speed loaders you can caryy and ill take a semi auto with how every many mags i can carry and see who has to cover who under fire at reload time. but like i said ilike s&w and i do own a j-frame revolver and is mainly a back up or when i am wearin a tank top and shorts. but 99.9% of the time i wear jeans, a t-shirt, and s&w m&p, soon to be Kahr.

 

[tiko_joe]

oh yeah and if you want take down power but dont like the recoil on an average weight revolver, why would you consider a something in the feather weight class? my .357 has got some kick to it but my buddies .357 airweight feels like a .44 mag. and yes i do agree with the other guys that said that alloy frames are way better than scandium frames.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Back to the topic at hand, I have been offered a trade for a Smith 337. I believe this was the aluminum frame 38 with the titanium cylinder and a pinned in front sight. Any problems with the 337 compared to the others?

 

[jon_in_wv]

Double post.

 

[F1]

and loaded with Powerball

_____________________

Last time I looked, Powerballs seem to have disappeared from the market.

 

[Socrates]

This is for those highly unlikely times you find yourself in a situation you wish you weren't. Taking out the trash, going places you need a weapon concealed, but don't think you are going to face any threats.

Most bad guys RUN when they see a gun. If they don't, then you're in pretty deep already.

Also, at 7 feet, the blast and noise from a snub 357 can blind, injure, and deafen the bad guy. Alleged study of shootings showed most at night, most at point blank range, most under 3 shots, and, given those ranges, 357 blanks would work just fine...

If I'm in a situation that is just random chance, I'll take the throw in your pocket 357. If I'm going to battle, I want an M1A, and a 1911.

Also, the advantage of the 340 is you don't have to bring it out of your pocket to shoot it, so, no brandishing...

 

[Joe A]

Back to the topic at hand, I have been offered a trade for a Smith 337. I believe this was the aluminum frame 38 with the titanium cylinder and a pinned in front sight. Any problems with the 337 compared to the others?

The biggest issue I see, for POCKET carry, is that it has a hammer on it.

The 337 has a Scandium frame and a Titanium cylinder. Scandium is great but the Titanium can be touchy if you like to keep it clean. It has a special coating on it to protect it so you have to be carful when cleaning. The 340 has a black, stanless steel frame that you can clean without concern and it adds about 1.5 oz. in weight.

I'm not sure about this for the 337, but some of the other Sc/Ti j-frames (like the 360) are limited to bullets less than 120 gr. bullets with .357. That said, I think a .357 in a < 2", light weight gun is over kill on both ends.

Check this thread:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/5341085552?r=3131027552#3131027552

The photos don't show the 340 M&P from a rear sight view but it is a great night sight that is also very visible in normal light. You really should try to hold one.