Smith 686-4 worth a premium?

[bikemutt]

I've read that many consider the dash 4 to be the pinnacle of the 686 line. It's the last to still have all forged parts and hammer mounted firing pin. The dash 5 was the move to MIM parts, the dash 6 to the integrated lock I believe. More importantly, the dash 4 was the first model to introduce the 7-shot cylinder.

I'm looking to add an early 686 4" to my collection and have generally confined my search to dash 3 and lower. Then I read up on the dash 4 and started to wonder if maybe that would be "the one" to own.

They don't appear to be common although I've found a six shot dash 4 with box and tools in mint condition asking about a $120 premium to what I'd normally consider fair value for a 4" 686, that figure being $650. In this case, it's not a negotiating situation, it's take it or leave it.

In any event, it occurred to me this may be a road some folks at THR may have already walked, or at least viewed the map. Is a 6 shot 686-4 worth a $120 premium?

 

[Deus Machina]

I can't speak from extensive experience so take this for what it's worth, but I had a no-dash 586 (the blued version) for a time.

If you worry more about the MIM parts than I do, I can see a premium for the all-forged. But aside from that, I would think the only premium for a -4 would be is it was the 7-round version.

I adored my 586 for what it was, and can't imagine much difference in the hand from something newer.

 

[18DAI]

Yes, the 686-4 - particularly the 7-shot variant - is well worth the $120 premium, to me.

I own one and it is the last of the finely constructed 686's without all the cost cutting measures and inclusion of that idiot lock. A REAL S&W revolver.

And unlike current production 686's, a 686-4 will not only hold its resale value, but likely be worth more than you paid down the road.

 

[bikemutt]

To be clear, I'm only wondering if it's worth a premium over the no dash through dash 3 models, especially considering this particular gun is a 6 shot.

I don't have a particular fondness for 7-shot guns, I'm not going to carry it and I won't embarrass myself by competing, I'm just a weekend range warrior

 

[Jim Watson]

If you are going to keep it in mint condition and sell it for a profit down the road, yes.
If you are buying it to shoot, no.

If you are going to do something weird like a moon clip conversion (I don't recommend it.) be sure the dash and the source of clips match; somewhere in there they made a slight change in the bolt circle. I had one converted and was furnished the wrong clips. I did a lot of delicate Dremeling to salvage them.

 

[357 Terms]

To be clear, I'm only wondering if it's worth a premium over the no dash through dash 3 models, especially considering this particular gun is a 6 shot.

I wouldn't think so.

Most no-dash models would most likely have an M stamped somewhere (crane?) from a recall.
I think that the -4's would all come with Hougues (my 2.5 variant did).

I am not sure if there is a great difference between them to matter.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

To be clear, I'm only wondering if it's worth a premium over the no dash through dash 3 models, especially considering this particular gun is a 6 shot.

I don't have a particular fondness for 7-shot guns, I'm not going to carry it and I won't embarrass myself by competing, I'm just a weekend range warrior

I would also think not. I have a M686-2 and IMO it's just as good a revolver as the -4. You also said the 7 round cylinder isn't a deal breaker so why spend the additional money? I would look around for one in the $500 range where they usually are.

 

[Old Fuff]

If you are going to keep it as a collectable in its present condition you might consider it at the asking price, but it will be a long time before the value increases over what it is after factoring in inflation.

If you shoot it the value will drop some and it will take even longer before you can recover your purchase price, again adjusted for inflation.

On very rare occasions I will buy LNIB or simply LN and sock it away, but if I'm looking for a shooter it will be in perfect mechanical condition but have some cosmetic issues. I pay less for something that's going to show more wear anyway.

After years of in-depth research I have discovered that a perfect, unblemished finish does not make any gun shoot better or add to its reliability.

As for the -4 / 6 shot. What exactly does it have to offer over earlier production? Later production of course is another matter.

 

[bikemutt]

As for the -4 / 6 shot. What exactly does it have to offer over earlier production?

I harvested this information from a S&W forum:

686 ''dash nothing'' - 1980
686-1, 1986 - radius stud package and floating hand
686-M - 1987 recall stamping on earlier versions
686-2, 1987, hammer nose change, bushing and ***'d parts
686-3, 1988, new yoke retention system
1990 - 2 1/2" barrel introduced.
686-4 ........ 1994 thru 1998 - many changes including move to 7 shot, sight changes etc.
686-5 had the move to MIM parts and frame mounted firing pin
-6 is when S&W started putting the lock on the 686; -5 and earlier are all pre-lock, and -4 and earlier are all pre-MIM hammer/trigger (-4s had a MIM thumbpiece).

The -4 list of changes says "many changes including move to 7 shot, sight changes etc."

All my L-frames right now are collectible shooters and are all no dash, they all seem to work just fine to me. Maybe someday I'll see a -4 in person I can't resist, for now I think I don't think its worth it for me to pay the premium, especially if I had to sell it later and know the first question will probably be "is it a 7-shot".

 

[MrBorland]

To be clear, I'm only wondering if it's worth a premium over the no dash through dash 3 models, especially considering this particular gun is a 6 shot.

I'll go out on a limb and say "very possibly".

As for the -4 / 6 shot. What exactly does it have to offer over earlier production?

I did an action job on a friends 686 "no dash", and as soon as I got into it, I regretted agreeing to the job, as is was the roughest, worst fitting gun I had ever seen. It looked like drunk monkeys did the work. Maybe it was a particularly bad example from the Bangor Punta era, but I have no interest in early 686s.

In contrast, the S&W revolvers I've checked out that were made in the mid-to-late 90s (which would include the 686-4), seem to be particularly well-fitted & smooth. My model 65 is a good example of that, and it's got the smoothest factory action I've ever felt (I submit the vid as evidence). I'm guessing it was during this time when their CNC process was well-calibrated and their QA/QC process was still able to find "issues" before guns got shipped.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well if you're going to stash a mint example in a safe for a collectable I'm not sure the internal work matters a whole lot.

On the other hand if I'm going to buy a user it will likely have some mileage on it, and if I can't detect internal issues by now I deserve what I get, or not as the case may be. If you want to see what real workmanship could be, go 1930's and earlier.

 

[Jaymo]

13/65 has to be my favorite Smith.

 

[L-Frame]

I have a 686-5, and while it has had a forged hammer and trigger put in (not by me), it really wouldn't have made a difference to me. I actually prefer the firing pin to be internal and not on the hammer, like the Ruger GP's. I think it has less chance of damage. I'm not of the camp that just because something changes, it's bad. While I like the asthetics of the old counter bored cylinders, I think they are more of a pain to clean and offer no real advantage (except for those shooting super hot rounds, possibly).

So, I would say if I had my choice I would pick a -5 and would not pay an extra $120 for a dash 4.

I do agree completely though with the -5 being the end of the line of 686's I'll buy. I will not buy any gun with a lock. I don't even care about the stories of them locking up by themselves, I just think they look WRONG.