Smokeless powder in a BP signal cannon.

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Whitecobra

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I have a 6" signal cannon with a 1&1/4 bore and for several years, have filled it half way, packed black powder very hard before firing. I'm out of black powder and have a pound of smokeless Alliant Red Dot I have no use for. I was thinking about using it. I'v tested it for inpack sensitivity by hitting some on concrete with metal & on metal to metal. No ignition. Should I be safe to pack as tight as I can?? I also will start at about 1/4 full and adjust from there. Anybody have and experience on the impact sensitivity of modern smokeless powders??
 
We don't know what type of signal cannon that you have or what type of steel that it's made of.
There's signal cannons that are made for 10 gauge shotshells but I don't even know what kind of powder that those use.
What does 1/4 full even mean?
Since we don't have a clue about what you're doing I can only wonder if you do.
What you're considering doing doesn't sound like a safe idea at all, but seems to be more like a recipe for disaster.
Be safe and stick with what works, and don't experiment with using smokeless powder in a black powder gun.
 
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As long as your life insurance policy is in good standing, I’d say go ahead, and good luck. There’s no way in hell I’d have the balls to do it.
 
You do realize that black powder is generally measured by volume, right? Smokeless by weight, when you compare black powder charges to smokeless there is usually a BIG difference. Packing that cannon a quarter of the way full may very well wipe out the cannon and the person next to it. Don't be a subject for the Darwin awards.
 
Ok I agree with all of the above but.......... smokeless depends on a pressure vessel to reach the pressures it does. Black powder doesn’t. Smokeless in open air sputters, black flashes off.

I’m not going to try but I think a teaspoon of smokeless in a tube plugged with a wad of paper ain’t going to do much. So OP what follows the powder down the bore? A tight fitting or heavy weight projectile or a wad of paper.
 
Ok I agree with all of the above but.......... smokeless depends on a pressure vessel to reach the pressures it does. Black powder doesn’t. Smokeless in open air sputters, black flashes off.

I’m not going to try but I think a teaspoon of smokeless in a tube plugged with a wad of paper ain’t going to do much. So OP what follows the powder down the bore? A tight fitting or heavy weight projectile or a wad of paper.

You're probably right.
Here's a 1:44 video showing that the powder needs containment to build up enough pressure to work.
And even the shotshell blanks for cartridge signal cannons are made with black powder.

 
The cannon is made of 4140 chromoly steel. It's 8" tall, 4" round /w a 6" bore of 1&1/4". I top powder with 2 sheets of a thick paper and pack very hard with a wooden dowel and a rubber mallet. The cannon should handle anything I throw at it. My concern is in packing the smokeless powder. I have pored some on concrete and hit it with a metal wrench. I'v pored some on a metal vice and hit it with the same wrench. No ignition eather way. I plan on trying 1 more time with a hammer on the vice. If no ignition, I going to load cannon. It's just used for noise for New Years & 4th of July.

After watching the video posted, I will also go get Pyrodex just in case the smokeless doesn't work so good.
 
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Neither smokeless or black powder is impact sensitive, both follow the physics of fire Heat/Fuel/Oxygen, in other words it takes a heat source, a spark, to ignite. The chemical components complete the triangle.
Still don’t think your RedDot is going to work unless you restrict it enough, them boom Shaka boom.
 
The cannon is made of 4140 chromoly steel. It's 8" tall, 4" round /w a 6" bore of 1&1/4". I top powder with 2 sheets of a thick paper and pack very hard with a wooden dowel and a rubber mallet. The cannon should handle anything I throw at it. My concern is in packing the smokeless powder. I have pored some on concrete and hit it with a metal wrench. I'v pored some on a metal vice and hit it with the same wrench. No ignition eather way. I plan on trying 1 more time with a hammer on the vice. If no ignition, I going to load cannon. It's just used for noise for New Years & 4th of July.

After watching the video posted, I will also go get Pyrodex just in case the smokeless doesn't work so good.

After the 3:15 mark, a youtuber fired a .308 at 1 lb. of Winchester 296 smokeless powder to see if it would detonate.
It caught fire after the 2nd shot from sparks created by the steel backstop.
 
Pretty cool video. I always wondered what would happen if you shot at a bag of 100 or so primers.
 
I agree that smokeless will probably only fizzle in the absence of a pressure build up such as would happen if a projectile was placed in the bore but loading it the same way as a black powder blank load would not produce an exploding boom that one expects to hear from a cannon.

Smokeless is generally clean, quiet (relatively compared to black powder,) and VERY HIGH PRESSURE with very little smoke when it goes bang. Smokeless is much harder to ignite (made to be ignited by a hot primer directly next to it.) I can think of all sort's of problems offhand such as ignition failure, hang fires, partial ignition, low noise report, unreliable, likely unsafe (if seeking a loud boom) etc.... and you will probably need a small charge of black powder to reliably ignite it in which case you might as well load it all with black powder. It's everything you don't want in a signal cannon.

VERY BAD FOR FUN DON'T LET THAT SMOKELESS POOP YOUR PARTY.

What worries me is someone will attempt to create that boom with smokeless by trying various ways to introduce pressure build up not knowing that success in doing so will create a very dangerous pressure spike that could result in a deadly explosion and with a smokeless powder type that is not supposed to be packed (my understanding is some brands/types can and others cant') it would create even more deadly pressure.

Think about this. Black powder firearms including cannons, whether loaded with blanks or not, produce much less pressure and power than their smokeless counterparts yet create a MUCH LOUDER EXPLOSION and smoke (extra smoke is added fun) despite being a MUCH weaker propellent.

I don't think using smokeless powder for the exclusive purpose of creating a loud boom in a blank load, or any load it's was not designed for, is a good idea. In fact I think it's dangerous.

I am not a smokeless powder expert but there are all sorts of different smokeless powders out there with different burn characteristics. Your typical smokeless load is not designed to be a blank noise maker and when dealing with smokeless it's best to strictly stay within the safe parameters of it's use.

These are the reasons I am reluctant to comment on this.

To avoid any civil or criminal legal liabilities I would stick with good old fashioned black powder which is much better and fun (and less dangerous) than any smokeless load any time in a cannon.

In this world there are often a few different ways to do things but this is not one. Smokeless is just the wrong stuff to use for what you want. It's not worth your time and effort.

Please if you can, if I may suggest, devote the valuable time and effort into getting some black powder. You are at an advantage since a lower quality black powder that creates more smoke and soot may make this thing even more fun to shoot for less money.

Are you having any problems obtaining black powder ?
What type of black do you use 2f or 1f ?
 
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IIRC the navy loads their big guns with the projectile, then smokeless powders bags and a black powder bag just in front of the primer. The primer sets off the BP which then lights up the smokeless charge. I guess you could pour in the BP first over the fuse then pack in the smokeless powder and your over powder wad and light the fuse.

Be sure and make a video and have your survivors post it on YouTube.:evil:
 
Can you fire it remotely from 100 yards away? If so, you could try just about anything.
 
I usually don't but this is one time I fully agree with the holy black only crowd.

Even though pyrodex may work good that thing should really shine when fed real black powder.
 
For all the naysayers, it works great!!
I did get some Pyrodex, shot that a few times but still wanted to try the Red Dot. I used slightly less Red Dot than I usually do of Pyrodex and it was alot louder. 2 shots in it so far and cannon handled them!!!
 
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