Snap caps vs brass with used primer

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gonoles_1980

gonoles_1980

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Wasn't sure of the right forum. Assume brass with primer has been tumbled.

After cleaning my guns, I'll put in snap caps and fire a half dozen times or so to make sure everything is put back together correctly. Why wouldn't clean brass with a used primer work? I assume the spring in the snapcap must be there for a reason.
 
If its changed out regularly they work. It doesn't take much before the primer is dented in and isn't doing anything helpful in cushioning the firing pin. Listening as its dry fired, it took maybe 6 hits before it sounded more like nothing than something cushioning the firing pin when Ive done it. Guns with lighter striker/hammer/firing pin falls may not mash them in as fast, but empties still don't last very long compared to true snap caps. You can use cases with a section of proper size O ring (cross section size) in the primer pocket, or silicone. Have never tried either, but they've been mentioned online.

I was dry firing on fired 30-30 cases when I broke the firing pin. When I took it to the gunsmith, the first thing he said was "Been dry firing it, haven't you" (not a question)
 
What Malamute said. I'd turn down some nylon on a lathe to the same diameter as the primer and then press it in. Then again, I bet some silicon gel in the primer pocket could do the same job.
 
All my ideas have been mentioned, so I can only add a reuse tip. Some of the spring loaded snap caps I've used have broken with the spring popping out of the front on the plastic. I've "repaired" them by plugging the primer hole with eraser trimmed to fit. I'm cheap, and those little snap caps cost a couple bucks each - they ought to last forever.
 
I had a friend that used to pour urethane pump parts. He gave me some scraps. I plug cut it and inserted it into the fired case empty primer hole. Never wore one out in 30 years of gunsmithing!
 
I second on the hot glue in a primer pocket of a spent cartridge- But you have to be sure that the primer pocket is CLEAN or the glue will fall out and cause BIG problems- Trust me on this!!
 
Dry firing Winchester 70 and Remington 7xx rifles doesn't harm them in any way. Ditto with other bolt action center fire rifles. Semiautos, too.

Ever watched several dozen top ranked competitors in a rifle match "snapping in" their target rifles? No snap caps anywhere.

Does dry firing put more stress on action parts than firing the cartridge does?

I wonder why there's no "proof tests" for firing pins.
 
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Bart B. said:
Semiautos, too
Click to expand...
Just wanted to chime in that it can harm some semis (atleast minis). The bolt pin slamming forward can dent the bolt face outward slightly. Ive heard of it happening on other guns but lack any experience there of.
For those i use a chamber block to keep the bolt out of battery and let the hammer hit the bottom of the bolt, or a snap cap/modified shell.
 
LoonWulf said:
Just wanted to chime in that it can harm some semis (atleast minis). The bolt pin slamming forward can dent the bolt face outward slightly.
Click to expand...
Never heard of this. The energy semiauto firing pins have when they stop against the bolt is a fraction of what bolt gun pins have. They're a small fraction of weight and size compared to those in bolt guns. Besides, the small rifle primer in a live round puts over a thousand pounds of force around the hole in the bolt face when the round fires and that doesn't dent the bolt face. Bolt gun pin springs put 25 to 30 pounds of force on pins.

Doesn't the hammer hit then stop against the bolt whether it's in battery or not?

How did you measure bolt faces to verify its being pushed out?

What firing pin spring strength (in pounds) were involved and what "mini" model?
 
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With a rim fire yes it can. But with a center fire some manufactures say it's OK, some say OK for a few, others say NO. Contact the mfg for your gun and see what they recommend. I use some hard skirting leather for primers on the ones make/use. But in general, if your only doing a few for function check it's ok, provided it's not a rim fire.
 
Bart B. said:
Never heard of this. The energy semiauto firing pins have when they stop against the bolt is a fraction of what bolt gun pins have. They're a small fraction of weight and size compared to those in bolt guns. Besides, the small rifle primer in a live round puts over a thousand pounds of force around the hole in the bolt face when the round fires and that doesn't dent the bolt face. Bolt gun pin springs put 25 to 30 pounds of force on pins.

Doesn't the hammer hit then stop against the bolt whether it's in battery or not?

How did you measure bolt faces to verify its being pushed out?

What firing pin spring strength (in pounds) were involved and what "mini" model?
Click to expand...
My minis a 581, stock components. I didnt measure the protrusion. honestly i dont remember how i noticed it, i think most likely while cleaning the bolt face. It was visible and you could feel a change when dragging a pick across the face.
From there i found some threads on the web describing what i was seeing and attributing it to dry firing.
Ill grab a picture, and i can measure it (kinda) with my calipers, when i get home tonight or tomorrow.
 
How far back from the mini 581 firing pin's tip is the shoulder that stops its forward movement? How much does the pin weigh?

How fast is the pin moving when it stops? Firing pins in center fire bolt rifles move 80 to 90 fps. At about 2.1 ounce, it's got at least 14 ft-lbs of energy as it stops.

I doubt no part of the firing pin closer than half inch back from its tip touches the metal around the hole in the bolt face; side of tip excepted where it can rub lightly around that hole.
 
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Ill check the measurements when i get home, tho ive got no way to accurately measure the rate of travel of the firing pin and hammer, tho i suppose i could use one of the sound detection programs.
I do want to say that the shoulder on front of the pin (which is about 1/4" back, i think) stops travel not the tail on the back, but i COULD well be wrong its been a while since ive had the Mini apart.

I went looking for more info on it now, and low and behold i cant find any of the threads I read back when i noticed the issue.
 
boom boom said:
You can also use plugs made from erasers for the primer holes.
Click to expand...
.......... That's what I've done for years on centerfire stuff, but I was never sure if that rubber was the proper hardness to simulate a primer. But I figure it's better than nothing. On a 22 rimfire I use those plastic wall anchors that Clark spoke of. They work well; the ones I have are: #4 - 6 x 7/8" .
 
Clark said:
I bought a 22 handgun last week that came with a 5 cent yellow plastic wall anchor in the chamber.
https://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-370326-Plastic-100-Pack/dp/B000H5WVCS/

A Lot of times, fired cases do not want to go back in the chamber.
Click to expand...
Henry Repeating Arms says to never use drywall anchors as snapcaps in their rimfire rifles. I'll take their word. I think one reason is the "rims" are somewhat thicker than bullet rims, maybe it can cause problems with the bolt and extractor.
 
Doug Jeffries said:
Henry Repeating Arms says to never use drywall anchors as snapcaps in their rimfire rifles. I'll take their word. I think one reason is the "rims" are somewhat thicker than bullet rims, maybe it can cause problems with the bolt and extractor.
Click to expand...

Doug, you piqued my interest, and I read some internet threads on the topic.
But backing up. My father got a used Iver Johnson model X single shot bolt action in 1933.
When I was a kid in 1962 and we tried to shoot it, the firing pin was too blunted from dry firing. That may have been my fault.
My father forged the firing pin back long again and it worked.

The Colt I bought last month cost me $1,856 out the door. So I am trying to baby it along until I can shoot a group with it.
Colt Camp Perry 1931 22 breech 4-1-2017.jpg

Now that I look at it, it looks like the firing pin, at some time in the last 85 years, gave the breech an awful whack when the swing out single shot handgun was 1/4" out of battery.

Anyway, here is a good report on rimfire snap caps and gun manufacturers:

https://www.americanhunter.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-5/200959-h812-hardware.pdf
 
Cheapest and best snap cap for rimfire 22's is a fired rimfire case from the firearm. Indexed right, it's good for 4 snaps.
 
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