Snubby .357

[JimGnitecki]

I'm hard pressed to undertsand how an SP101 at 25 ounces unloaded weight is going to recoil much less than a S&W 327 scandium 8-shot that weighs 21 ounces unloaded, or a Model 60 Ladysmith that weighs 22 ounces . . .

Jim G

 

[MCgunner]

Price being no object for me

Wow, can I be your son?

 

[MCgunner]

I just don't like the SP101. It's difficult to load due to the proximity of the cylinder to frame and the rubber grips. I'd love to see a six shot version of the gun in 357 Magnum and just a bit more length to the crane.

I don't know if you've ever noticed, but there is a big industry out there in aftermarket grips. Hogues feel great on the SP101 and allow easy use of a speed loader. SP101s are much tougher, stronger guns than J frames ever pretended to be. And, BTW, they're 27 ounces in 2.3" according to literature, never weighted one. They are not pocket guns, but carry well on the belt and the 5 shot cylinder is a major reason why.

I got a 3" Taurus 66 used at a gun show for 180 bucks a few years back. That thing is awesome, 1.5" 25 yard groups, shoots easy, carries only a little less comfortably on the belt than a SP101. I like the Hogue's round butt profile on the SP101, though, easier for concealment and that grip does feel good on that gun and attenuates recoil well.

You don't have to spend a fortune to defend yourself. If you can't find it used, a new SP101 is about $450 and it's one of the highest quality .357 carries on the market.

 

[SaxonPig]

People who have the SP101 seem to love it. I can't get past how horribly ugly it looks.

Charter Arms makes a decent revolver for the money.

The best remains the S&W J frame.

 

[Brian Williams]

Price no object, find a S&W 13 with a 3" barrel.

 

[Guillermo]

It is not often that I disagree with SaxonPig but I find the SP101 by far the most attractive Ruger. It does not have as much as of the faux cowboy-esqueness

As a huge fan of old Smiths I have to agree with them as being the best but admittedly I do not have a lot of SP101 experience

 

[JimGnitecki]

MCgunner: The 25 ounces I quoted was what a gun tester in a magazine actually found it weighed. He compared it to another firearm as I recall, and the other firearm's weight was what I expected, so I don't think he had an inaccurate scale. Just reporting what I read.

Mind you, the LOADED weight of all 357 or 38 special revolvers is going to be a couple ounces more than the unloaded weight. Perhaps some companies and writers quote loaded weights?

Jim G

 

[SaxonPig]

G- Aesthetics is purely subjective. I only know what I like and don't like and to me all Ruger DA revolvers are hideous.


These are my small "carry" revolvers. Well, the 64 is a house gun and really isn't carried much, and the 19 is pushing it in regards to being small.

 

[gb6491]

I have a S&W 60-9 that has given me many years of excellent service and never a reason to regret it's purchase:

Regards,
Greg

 

[Weevil]

Yet another vote for the SP101.

 

[snooperman]

Ruger SP101 is probably the best gun for the money ...

for several reasons. It is a stronger design than any J frame. I have never seen any of my Ruger revolvers go out of timing , even with the hottest loads , and that includes the SP101 as well my speed six. One can not make that claim easily with a S&W J frame or even K frame in a .357 magnum.The Sp101 is light enough to carry IWB with ease or a sde holster as well.

 

[SaxonPig]

Um... I have never seen a J frame or K frame 357 Magnum go out of time so apparently that claim can be easily made.

 

[Stainz]

Let's really compare a S&W 3" 60, SKU #162434, with a Ruger 3" SP-101, Catalog #KSP-331X. From their catalogs, the S&W weighs 24.1 oz, and has an adjustable rear sight and Hi-Viz front sight and a full length lug under the barrel. The fixed sight SP-101, with it's bulky looking barrel shroud and fixed sights weighs 27 oz. Now couple the materials and manufacturing - the S&W is hammer-forged and heat-treated; the Ruger, as is their usual contruction, is cast SS - which takes more metal for the same strength. Price?" The S&W MSRP was $830 vs Ruger's $607. I'll do without more - and take S&W. Both will yield a long life with .38 Specials and 'regular', ie, not super-SAAMI spec'd, .357 Magnums. Both use helical (coil) springs to power the hammer.

A bit of info on their history. Both models started life as .38 Specials! Bill Ruger wanted his SP-101s to be .357 Magnum-capable - and they were - with shorter, like 125gr JHPs, .357 Magnum loads. They had to thin the front and rear frames, making room for a longer cylinder to accomodate the longer .357 Magnum loads. It also permitted a 3" & 4" .32 H&RM and .22 LR, both 6-shooters. My unshot LNIB 4" .32 H&RM was by far the worst QC revolver I've ever bought - simply terrible - but remediable, save the oversized cylinder chambers. The S&W 60 got a deeper reaming - and different heat-treat - voila, .357 Magnum!

I enjoyed Ruger SAs - always something 'crude' to take care of - but, my Redhawk and SP-101 were just really bad - I said goodbye to Rugers over them. My early 7.5" .454 SRH was the best Ruger I ever owned. Yeah, I like S&Ws - I'll always have fewer revolvers now, but they'll be S&W's! YMMV!

Stainz

PS Lengthened Ruger SP-101 frame hole/cylinders have carried the so signifying 'X' suffix in their catalog number for years.

 

[Stainz]

To give some scale to the S&Ws, here are, bottom LH CW:

1 7/8" J-frame 642-2 .38 Spcl +P x5 15.5 oz
2" K-frame 10-11 .38 Spcl +P x6 30.5 oz
2.5" L-frame 296 .44 Spcl x5 19.7 oz
2 5/8" N-frame 627-5 .357M x8 37.6 oz



For a CCW with some probability of carrying frequently, I'll continue to go with the 642. A hefty .357M does you little good in the nightstand - at home - when you are attacked in a parking lot, etc. I don't need .357Ms for protection - I keep Remington R38S12 +P 158gr LHPSWC for HD, etc, in my .38s and .357Ms - even moonclips full for the 627. YMMV.

Stainz

 

[snooperman]

Timing problems with K frames...

The reason Smith & Wesson came out with the L frame guns and quit making many K frame guns is because of timing issues in those revolvers. Call S & W and they will fill you in. I have been shooting hot loads in my K frame model 19 for about 45 years and it has been back to the factory at least 3 times . So has my model 65. I have shot the hottest loads while hunting wild boar on my farm for at least 40 years with a Ruger blackhawk and never had a problem with timing. The Rugers that I have are all well built guns.

 

[MCgunner]

As a huge fan of old Smiths I have to agree with them as being the best but admittedly I do not have a lot of SP101 experience

Well, JMHO, but I'm not a big fan of new Smiths especially considering what they cost and the SP101 is a far stronger, more capable revolver. IMHO, it's the best snub .357 magnum ever made, period, case closed, regardless of price. And, I happen to think it looks better than a J frame, tougher, in a body builder masculine kind of way. The Smiths need lip stick. They're girl's guns.

J/K except about the SP101 being a far stronger gun. I really don't care about looks. I don't buy a defensive sidearm as art work. It'll get leather worn if it's a carry, anyway, and I ain't going to carry it exposed, that being illegal in Texas.

 

[MCgunner]

Stainz, if I was getting a trail gun, adjustable sights would be valuable to me. My SP101 shot square to POA, though, with my carry loads. 3 ounces difference is going to break the bank? That Smith is forged steel, but it only has one side of a frame from strength and lock up is via a detent ball on either end of the ejector rod. The design of the SP101, no side plate, crane lock up, gives it the strength of an L frame for a lousy 3 ounces more weight. You're telling me you ain't strong enough to carry 3 more ounces?

I've shot rounds through that SP101 that I'd never shoot in a K frame, not any volume, anyway, let alone a J. Full bore 180 grain XTP in front of 13.8 grains AA#9. That SP101 can take it. I'm not sure how long it'd take that J frame to loosen up, but it'd be way before that SP101 ever did. That load produced 1302 fps out of that 2.3" barrel and with the Hogue grip, wasn't hard to control. The gun shot easier than my Security Six ever did with equivalent loads. Sweet shootin' gun and there is no stronger five shot .357 Snub. Perhaps a 2" barrel M27, maybe, but no J frame. Besides, I'd be afraid the lock would turn itself on with a load like that.

 

[surfinUSA]

The reason Smith & Wesson came out with the L frame guns and quit making many K frame guns is because of timing issues in those revolvers. Call S & W and they will fill you in. I have been shooting hot loads in my K frame model 19 for about 45 years and it has been back to the factory at least 3 times . So has my model 65.

The S&W k frame magnums were made for 50 years. 25 before the introduction of the L frame, then 25 years after the introduction of the L frame.

Regardless of internet BS and even that of the company, you don't make a series of guns that long if there is a problem with it.

The K frame magnums were dumped to simplify the S&W line (no need for two medium frame magnum lines) plus S&W was expanding the L frame line with the 620 and 619.

 

[Guillermo]

I'm not a big fan of new Smiths

as far as I am concerned Smith went out of business in March of 2000

 

[JamesKelly]

I'd say, based on limited experience, choice of snubby depends upon how you intend to carry it, and your tolerance for pain. I am, personally, set on pocket carry, but do not claim it superior than inside or outside the belt, shoulder holster, &c.

About 9 yrs ago bought a S&W 342, titanium cylinder, scandium aluminum alloy frame & barrel, stainless liner in barrel 13 ounces. Great for pocket carry. When I first got it, practice was painful after about 40 rounds (one handed). The date on my driver's license has caught up with me, and shooting one handed is painful after one round. So much for practice.

My dual approach was first, do the obvious & shoot 2-handed like everyone else, and use target wadcutters. I like nice clean holes.

Second, got a Model 640 stainless, about 24 ounces. Practice is now comfortable with wadcutters & can get off 5 rounds of .357 mag without tears. I will stay with standard .38 Spl ammunition for all practice & perhaps for carry. The reputation of .357 as a one-shot stopper can not be ignored, but one must still actually be able to hit the target under stress. I'll get in a hell of a lot more practice w 38Spl loads.

If you choose to carry in a holster, then by all means get a stainless steel revolver, and not aluminum (the weight makes shooting more pleasant = more practice).

Blued steel guns may run smoother if you don't mind looking at the holster wear & effects of sweat. Specifically, carbon steel (well, chrome-moly steel really) against steel runs smooth, stainless against stainless tends to gall. You may check this yourself by working the slides of a stainless 1911 vs a carbon steel 1911 of comparable quality. Stainless guns are popular because of appearance and not at all because of superior function or mechanical toughness (metallurgist speaking here, can y'tell?).

Personally I'd check a lot of internet reviews, along with past issues of Gun Test magazine, to aid in decision amongst various models of Ruger and S&W. So far as I know there are no other current makes of double-action revolvers upon which I'd care to depend. As in, forget Charter Arms.

 

[snooperman]

Your answer is partially correct...

Smith and Wesson wanted to simplify the line of medium size guns but the K frame problems brought that on. The K frame has been around more than 50 years and those older guns , especially around the forcing cone were too weak to take a steady diet of magnum loads. Hence, the beefed up L frame around the frame where the barrel is attached. Use a micromiter and you will see the difference between these two frames at that point. I will concede that better steel in the later made K frames helped but S&W had a better design in the 586-686 etc and went with that for good reason.

 

[MCgunner]

As I recall, mostly, it was in the 60s and 70s, the Super Vel era, when LE agencies were using K frames and shooting lots of hot rounds, that issues with the K frames turned up. Unless you compete and burn LOTS of hot ammo in a K frame, I doubt th average shooter would have a problem. Though, keep the bore and forcing cone clean of lead build up. I think that's what caused the forcing cone to crack on my M10 once. Had to rebarrel it.

A J frame will last a long time if you don't cycle much magnum ammo in it, just shoot .38 in it and be easy on it, carry what you want in magnum fodder and fire a few occasionally in the gun. But, you can fire Buffalo Bore in a SP101 till the cows come home and won't bother it any worse than an L frame. And, the OP did say "inexpensive" or less expensive or somthing like that, IIRC. I haven't priced a new M60 in a while, but I'm thinkin' the SP101 is quite a bit more affordable all the while being a far stronger design.

 

[MCgunner]

BTW, Bill Ruger brought out the stronger, beefier GP100 to replace the Six series. That probably had something to do with the L frame intro, too. Now, The Six didn't really need beefing up, but I guess in ol' Bill's mind, he could improve strength. He didn't have to lug that thing around on HIS belt, after all. He could have just redesign the lock system, didn't have to make the thing 40 ounces IMHO, but oh, well. Equal barrel lengths, I guess it ain't all THAT much heavier, about 6 ounces.

I think the best DA Ruger ever built is the SP101, for self defense, anyway. The Redhawk has other uses.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

back on topic

What's the best compromise between the best and cheapest for a snubby .357/38 revolver?

Back to the original topic of Snubby .357 ...I think the answer for me falls between a Rossi/Taurus and a S&W/Colt. You are asking about .357's only like the topic states, correct?

That would put it right in the middle for me with the Ruger SP101 .357 as the best compromise.



Other .357 snubs I own that I would put in the best grouping would be the S&W's...19, 66, and 627-PC. I don't have a Rossi or Taurus.

 

[Voodoo1951]

Heres my choice...It's a vintage Taurus model 606 w/ a factory ported barrel...