So about the P320 Trigger....

[WrongHanded]

This article (dated today) is pretty much saying the Sig P320 is causing the gun to fire spontaneously.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3d4gw/sig-sauer-handguns-p320-trigger-lawsuit-police

I don't know what exactly to make of it. Some of these individual instances with the P320 discharging seem to be a case of improper gun handling. Other don't seem as clear cut. I've never shot or dry fired one so I have no idea what the trigger is like. Is the trigger weight very light for a striker fired pistol? Is the travel distance particularly short?

I don't have any really interesting in buying one, but I'd like to know what's really going on here. Clearly there's some issue that is presenting itself with these particular pistols.

 

[Tirod]

That's the case some are trying to make.

 

[Otto]

Surely, he would have been of aware of this issue...everyone else knew about it. Did he ever return the gun to SIG for the Voluntary Upgrade? I'm thinking not. If your gun has a history of safety concerns, it's best not to take it to a school basketball game. He should count his blessings that no kid was hurt.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The title is click bait as it claims the 320 "went off randomly", but a few paragraphs down the plaintive admits that he was handling items on his belt when the gun discharged. When they started referencing "dropping" the 320 causing it to discharge, the article lost credibility. If they are claiming that that design is related to their incident, that tells you that either their pistols are ancient, were not sent in for the factory upgrade, or they are just really reaching.

Other don't seem as clear cut. I've never shot or dry fired one so I have no idea what the trigger is like. Is the trigger weight very light for a striker fired pistol? Is the travel distance particularly short?

I don't have any really interesting in buying one, but I'd like to know what's really going on here. Clearly there's some issue that is presenting itself with these particular pistols.

The stock trigger is neither "very light" nor is the distance of takeup short. What I believe is happening is that poor gun handling by officers is causing negligent discharges and rather than accept responsibility they are grabbing onto a easy lifeline and blaming a firearms manufacturer.

The discharge upon being dropped was addressed by the factory upgrade. That upgrade included a new disconnecter and reducing the inertia of the action parts which made it able to ignite the primer when dropped at a specific angle. There are still non-upgraded 320s out there because their owers fear that the upgrade will adversely effect the trigger pull of their pistols

 

[RobClarkeRVA]

vice also pushes an agenda

 

[5-SHOTS]

I have shot many times with my friend's SIG-Sauer P320 Compact Carry. Honestly, I was absolutely not impressed by the trigger: almost no takeup, a hard wall and then the (at least crisp) break. I don't know if it has the reduced inertia trigger, it is a 9x21 IMI P320 for the italian market and I don't know if it had the upgrade before being imported; to me the trigger appears to be a rather heavy piece of steel. I honestly can't understand why SIG-Sauer doesn't just add a trigger safety, just like Glock or the vast majority of striker-fired pistols; this would solve the problem once and for all. The fact of having reduced the inertia of the trigger only moves the problem bringing it to a higher height of fall or to a more violent hit.

 

[WrongHanded]

vice also pushes an agenda

I'd assumed as much. Seems like that all too common these days.

 

[WrongHanded]

The stock trigger is neither "very light" nor is the distance of takeup short. What I believe is happening is that poor gun handling by officers is causing negligent discharges and rather than accept responsibility they are grabbing onto a easy lifeline and blaming a firearms manufacturer.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Poor gun handling on the part of officers does seem like a logical conclusion. Do we find LEOs have negligent discharges with other popular brands of pistols? It seems as though this has happened more than a few times with the P320 (I'm not basing that on this article alone).

Do you think perhaps other pistol designs previously carried have allowed officers to learn bad habits that don't transfer over to the P320? Is there any possibility that a particular duty holster design is causing the issue, or at least contributing to it?

 

[Hartkopf]

The newer (more drop safe) P320 I shot was nothing unusual and nothing special. 5-SHOTS gave a good description of the trigger. I was unimpressed with the gun overall and sold it after a few months.

Sig could have done a few things better and maybe they wouldn't have everybody blaming the P320 for what was probably the user's mistakes.

 

[5-SHOTS]

Ok, I researched more about the trigger upgrade on the P320 guns. They haven't just reduced the trigger inertia but have modified a number of internal parts and apparently this seems to work well. This youtube video explains the various changes very well:
Looking at how the P320 is built in the trigger zone, it actually seems technically difficult, if not impossible, to use a trigger with a trigger safety in the center.
I continue to be little impressed by the P320, a pistol certainly well built in the barrel and slide, accurate, but not very ergonomic, with a strange trigger pull feeling. In my opinion there is much better on the market. I remember recommending my friend to buy the Walther PPQ M2 instead of the P320 but he didn't listen to me... He would have saved a lot of money too. The next time we see each other I'll have him take the P320 apart to see if he has received the trigger mechanism upgrade.

 

[Destructo6]

My guess is that he was handling the pistol, improperly, pulled the trigger and can't bear to admit it.

My agency has had numerous NDs with all sorts of guns, from DAO Beretta 96s to HK P2000 LEM. One claimed to have been playing with the hammer while holstered and it went off, which is an impossibility. They all pulled the trigger and lots were very senior guys who had become complacement.

 

[WrongHanded]

My agency has had numerous NDs with all sorts of guns, from DAO Beretta 96s to HK P2000 LEM. One claimed to have been playing with the hammer while holstered and it went off, which is an impossibility. They all pulled the trigger and lots were very senior guys who had become complacement.

That's good information. So it's probably not something that's ONLY happening with the P320, But the P320 having prior issues is a convenient scapegoat for negligence? That would make sense.

 

[Otto]

The title is click bait as it claims the 320 "went off randomly", but a few paragraphs down the plaintive admits that he was handling items on his belt when the gun discharged......

Yeah, it's best just to read the complaint filed with the Circuit Court....that's what I've done. It's enlightening but lengthy, It contains some pretty damning accusations.against SIG many of which are facts. I'm not hating on SIG (own 9 of them) but they screwed-up from the very beginning
.
https://www.smbb.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Complaint-Final-Northrop.pdf

 

[Riomouse911]

Lots of companies are penny-wise yet pound-foolish when it comes to recalling for a defect or issue early on. They guess the cost of calling for s recall early on and addressing it outweighs waiting it out and the risk of being drug into court a bunch of times. Auto makers, toy makers, gun makers…makes no difference.

I absolutely love the 220-series and their 365… the other SIG designs? I prefer other brands/styles. YMMV.

Stay safe.

 

[WrongHanded]

Yeah, it's best just to read the complaint filed with the Circuit Court....that's what I've done. It's enlightening but lengthy, It contains some pretty damning accusations.against SIG many of which are facts. I'm not hating on SIG (own 9 of them) but they screwed-up from the very beginning
.
https://www.smbb.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Complaint-Final-Northrop.pdf

Yeah, that's a lot of instances of the gun going off when it shouldn't have. And considering some were holstered at the time and they claim there's body cam or other video evidence of some of those event, it really makes me wonder.

 

[Hartkopf]

Yeah, it's best just to read the complaint filed with the Circuit Court....that's what I've done. It's enlightening but lengthy, It contains some pretty damning accusations.against SIG many of which are facts. I'm not hating on SIG (own 9 of them) but they screwed-up from the very beginning
.
https://www.smbb.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Complaint-Final-Northrop.pdf

So does the P320 have a firing pin block? I'm not familiar with the internal details of the gun but section 17 b says the firing pin can contact a live round without the trigger being pulled.

 

[5-SHOTS]

So does the P320 have a firing pin block? I'm not familiar with the internal details of the gun but section 17 b says the firing pin can contact a live round without the trigger being pulled.

Yes, it had and still has a slide mounted firing pin block.
The problem was that if dropped from a certain heights and at certain angles, the inertia due to the excessive mass of the trigger worked as if someone had actually pressed the trigger; and if the trigger goes back, it deactivates the firing pin block. Another problem I understand is that, after a fall or a strong hit or a jolt, the sear could go down releasing the firing pin and at the same time, again after the same fall or hit or jolt, the lever that deactivates the firing pin block could move freely upward, pressing up the firing pin block and then deactivating it.
If you search on youtube "sig p320 accidental discarge" you can find many accidents reproduced in various ways.
As a result of the trigger mass change and the replacement of some parts and the changes in the interaction between them, it seems that the problem has been solved. This is another video that explains the various changes made to the trigger system and also shows what I argue about the weirdness of the trigger action feeling on this pistol:

 

[9mmepiphany]

Do we find LEOs have negligent discharges with other popular brands of pistols?

The brand with the most ND that I'm familar with, over a 28 year career in LE, has been the Glock models; interestingly followed by revolvers...yes, my LE career spanned the transition between these.

Many people forget that when Glock first came on the market, they had so many ND that Glock sent out teams of trainers to departments that adopted their pistols...to prevent additional incidents. Glock was very good about addressing failures and keeping them very quiet...IE: magazines not dropping free, slide stops wearing out the slide notch

Is there any possibility that a particular duty holster design is causing the issue, or at least contributing to it?

The departments I've worked for or trained with have always used top line holsters, but I have heard and read about other departments...usually back East or in the South...which used less than optimal holsters. Most CA LEA issue safety equipment because of concern about liability

 

[9mmepiphany]

Sig could have done a few things better and maybe they wouldn't have everybody blaming the P320 for what was probably the user's mistakes.

I don't think anyone would deny this.

SIG says that they developed the Voluntary Upgrade for the military contact and meant to roll it out after fulfilling it. The drop incidents accelerated the rollout.

The upgrade wasn't mandatory, but there is no after-market support for non-updated pistols

 

[9mmepiphany]

I remember recommending my friend to buy the instead of the P320 but he didn't listen to me.

The Walther has an excellent trigger and nice overall feel.

I went with the SIG 320 mostly for the versatility of being able to swap grip modules and slides/barrels. I started with a Compact and added grip modules for the X-Carry, X-Compact, and Legion...also added the 4.7" Pro Cut slide. Added the Grayguns sear kit to cleanup the release and the Apex Tactical FSS trigger bar to shorten the takeup/reset

 

[Mainsail]

The Northrop incident happened in Feb of 2020. Northrop has apparently recently decided to sue Sig Sauer. So part old news part new.

I wish I knew someone with a paint shaker. I'd load a primed case, wrap the gun/holster in foam, stuff it in an empty paint can, and shake the crap out of it to see if it might go off. Then I would have confidence that my P320 won't go off in the holster. Right now there's so much vague info that I'm hesitant to carry it.

 

[Jimster]

My .45 Sig P320 already had the updated trigger but I went ahead and installed the Apex flat trigger upgrade kit for the hell of it. Feels pretty nice to me. I love it but not as good as my 1911s.

 

[gun'sRgood]

Just watched a cop suing Sig for $15M for her P320 going off - by it's self. They say that Sig did a modification but the problems still exist. This police force got rid of the P320's. It seems there are enough complaints that this news would bother the military. Or does the military have issues?

 

[Odd Job]

Do you have a link to the story involving the cop?

 

[JTQ]

there is this thread https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/so-about-the-p320-trigger.893471/#post-12026938