So about the P320 Trigger....

[upptick]

I also note that smaller organizations who abandon SIG's universally step backward and adopt a 35 year old auto pistol which isn't known to be advancing design progress, which is the precise issue here. Yet, that is exactly where they were in their early days, soundly chastised for innovation by the moribund pistol industry who was losing all the contracts. They are now acting like their competition did then, which signals how stale the company has become.

You mean returning to an "old fashioned" DA/SA design, like a Beretta or HK? You really think that is a "step backward?" To me, that would seem more like a lateral shift at worst and perhaps is just a better option because of the lower probability of having an accidental discharge with a regular hammer-fired gun.

And as to newer always being better, I definitely disagree with that. My new Honda Pilot has all these automatic safety features which scared the hell out of me when I first got it when it threw the brakes on while I was on the highway. I was driving on a curve in traffic and the radar apparently saw a car ahead in an adjacent lane and the system perceived that I was on a collision course so it activated the brakes, which nearly caused the car behind me to rear-end me. I deactivated that crazy feature as soon as I figured out how, which itself was not a trivial undertaking. In other words, for concealed carry I like my HK p2000sk more than my Glock....

 

[WrongHanded]

From my perspective, I think it's obvious that any weapon that is carried after its been cocked is more prone to an accidental discharge than one that's not. Hence, I prefer revolvers and DA/SA autoloaders over strikers. I won't be surprised if we see some police departments return to the tried-and-true DA/SA pistol.

Absolutely. Though it seems that striker fired guns are not all alike. I was pretty surprised to see the internals of the P320. I previously hadn't even consider the possibility of the trigger sear being a rotating part (on a striker gun), rather than being on the trigger bar like Glock. The Sig design has the sear as a separate part (as far as I can see), that rotates down and is not directly attached to the trigger. It also appears that the striker is fully cocked. Neither is true of the Glock design (and therefore probably also others). Still, I see your point.

If it weren't for the manufacturing cost, I'd think returning to the DA/SA design would make a lot of sense for LE departments.

 

[gc70]

SIG is a victim of its own creativity -or cheapness- regarding the P320 trigger system.

The P320 was derived from the hammer-fired, double-action-only P250. The P250 trigger bar attached to an extension at the top of the trigger and above the trigger's pivot point, which gave the trigger extra leverage, which was very good for a DAO pistol. SIG retained that concept for the P320 trigger, which meant the trigger bar moved forward to release the striker, as opposed to most other striker-fired guns in which the trigger bar moved rearward to release the striker.

The P320 also has an unusual striker-block design. The striker-block safety is the yellow piece above the purple piece in the following photo.

 

[9mmepiphany]

In the latest case...pistol in holster in purse...the P320 was returned to SIG for testing and they determined that all safety features was operating and that the discharge was likely caused by other items in the purse activating the trigger.

A couple of factors to consider
1. The gun was holstering in the Blackhawk Serpa holster which leave the trigger partially accessible when holstered
2. The holsters gun was in the detective's purse. Not a dedicated Carry Purse and not in a separate compartment from other items in the purse

 

[Tirod]

Yeah, it's best just to read the complaint filed with the Circuit Court....that's what I've done. It's enlightening but lengthy, It contains some pretty damning accusations.against SIG many of which are facts. I'm not hating on SIG (own 9 of them) but they screwed-up from the very beginning
.
https://www.smbb.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Complaint-Final-Northrop.pdf

There's the real issue in a nutshell. Condemning the maker while no evidence is yet presented. I thought we were supposed to hear both sides then allow a court to decide based on a fair trial.

(me checking address on Google) Well, yeah, I guess I still do live in America.

 

[Tirod]

You mean returning to an "old fashioned" DA/SA design, like a Beretta or HK? You really think that is a "step backward?" To me, that would seem more like a lateral shift at worst and perhaps is just a better option because of the lower probability of having an accidental discharge with a regular hammer-fired gun.

And as to newer always being better, I definitely disagree with that. My new Honda Pilot has all these automatic safety features which scared the hell out of me when I first got it when it threw the brakes on while I was on the highway. I was driving on a curve in traffic and the radar apparently saw a car ahead in an adjacent lane and the system perceived that I was on a collision course so it activated the brakes, which nearly caused the car behind me to rear-end me. I deactivated that crazy feature as soon as I figured out how, which itself was not a trivial undertaking. In other words, for concealed carry I like my HK p2000sk more than my Glock....

Glock has been around for 35 years. They now supercede guns like my 4566 TSW.

 

[Zendude]

Well Zendude! I just got one thing to tell you! That pistol you got next to your handle, super awesome looking. I wouldn't doubt that folks have already asked, but what is it? And would you like me to keep it safe for you?

It’s the Remington R51, not to be confused with the original Remington Model 51 made in 1918. You should be able to find an R51 for a good price on gunbroker. The R51 was not very successful for a number of reasons, but it is a very unique design.

 

[gun'sRgood]

It’s the Remington R51, not to be confused with the original Remington Model 51 made in 1918. You should be able to find an R51 for a good price on gunbroker. The R51 was not very successful for a number of reasons, but it is a very unique design.

Thx.

 

[JR24]

It’s the Remington R51, not to be confused with the original Remington Model 51 made in 1918. You should be able to find an R51 for a good price on gunbroker. The R51 was not very successful for a number of reasons, but it is a very unique design.

It does look good, especially in your profile picture.

Suppose that's probably gone now with the new ownership.

 

[gc70]

It does look good, especially in your profile picture.

Suppose that's probably gone now with the new ownership.

The R51 was discontinued in 2018.

 

[TomJ]

TTAG posted an article regarding this.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/about-those-sig-p320-lawsuits/

 

[CZ-75BD]

I have P320 M17, never had such issue

 

[zaitcev]

TTAG posted an article regarding this.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/about-those-sig-p320-lawsuits/

About time someone noticed, heh.

Bagnell's strategy is pretty simple: just file every case. In most of them, it will be conclusively proven that the plaintiff either lied or contributed to the discharge through negligence. But not in all of them! Some of them will be brought to jury, where it becomes a roll of the dice. And, he only needs one or two successes to become filthy rich.

Bagnell is going to be a tough nut to crack for SIG's counsel. They cannot move to declare him a vexatious litigant, I think: he's not the one who's filing the cases.

I would be quite amused if not the realization that the costs of all this will be ultimately passed upon me, no matter if Bagnell wins or loses. And even if he were disbarred tomorrow, the damage is already done.

 

[toivo]

TTAG posted an article regarding this.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/about-those-sig-p320-lawsuits/

About time someone noticed, heh.

Yeah, I like the part about the gun being carried in the gym bag, "carefully wrapped in a cloth." Do they teach that in the academy? Careful cloth-wrapping of guns for gym-bag carry?

 

[erazor55]

Yeah, I like the part about the gun being carried in the gym bag, "carefully wrapped in a cloth." Do they teach that in the academy? Careful cloth-wrapping of guns for gym-bag carry?

The video posted at the bottom of that article is an excellent description of the safety mechanisms in the Sig P320. Very unlikely an "uncommanded" discharge.