So do gun laws really stop mass murders/attacks

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wingsof

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I don't even have to say it, this occured 4 years after the huge gun reform in Australia

Childers danger known, say families

By Greg Roberts and Peter Fray
June 20 2003

The Childers hostel in central Queensland was refused a fire safety permit 17 months before the inferno that killed 15 backpackers, and authorities did nothing to rectify the situation, the families of 11 victims have claimed.

They say their children could have survived if the hostel's fire alarm system had not been turned off and escape routes had not been blocked by beds or bars on the windows.

The allegations are contained in statements of claim filed in the Brisbane District Court seeking damages from eight parties, including Isis Shire Council and the hostel's management company, Where-on-Earth.

One of seven British families who have joined the action said yesterday that they knew it would not end the "half lives" they led, but that "somebody needs to be accountable for what happened".

Monday is the third anniversary of the inferno, which killed nine women and six men in the Palace Backpackers Hostel, most of them foreigners.

An itinerant fruit-picker, Robert Long, was jailed for life last year for the murders of two victims, 19-year-old West Australian twins Stacey and Kelly Slarke.

A statement by the twins' father, Frank Slarke, 61, said solicitors for Where-on-Earth wrote to the council in December 1998 seeking information on the hostel's fire safety status.

A month later a shire officer inspected the hostel and "expressly declined" to issue a safety permit. The shire took no steps to require the company to apply for a permit or conduct further inspections, despite a local law that said it needed to be satisfied premises were free of fire hazards.

It also alleges that when the Fire and Rescue Service inspected the hostel in 1997 it warned there was an evacuation problem, but that no further inspections were conducted before the fire.

And the statement said that in June 2000 - the month of the fire - fire alarm devices had been turned off and temporary or alternative alarms had been provided. In an upstairs room where the twins and eight other victims died, access to a door was blocked by bunks.

Mr Slarke is seeking $217,000 for "damages and injuries, nervous shock and loss".

The twins' parents knew the pair were staying at a hostel in Childers and could not reach them on their mobile phone. Police had "falsely reassured" them that the girls' Magna station wagon was not near the hostel and that they must therefore have moved on. However, that evening, the vehicle was found parked behind the hostel.

The family had to wait weeks for confirmation from DNA. They received jewellery taken from the girls' bodies and had to unpack their belongings when the vehicle was returned.

Valerie and Brian Sutton, of Bath, England, lost their only son, Gary, 24, and say their lives have become "complete and utter nightmare".

"It's just unbelievable, really," said Mrs Sutton, 60. "They went over for an adventure and came home in a coffin. The actual way he died, it's just so horrific. We don't want anyone else to go through what we have . . . Somebody needs to be held accountable for what happened. We want justice for our son and the others."

Gary Sutton, a croupier at Bristol casino, had been travelling around Australia with his friend, Michael Lewis, from Bristol, when they stopped in Childers. They had been away from Britain for 10 months and were planning to return in two months.

In Mr Sutton's case, his room's only free door opened directly onto the firewall.

"They couldn't get out," Mrs Sutton said. "They were packed in like sardines. If there had not been bars on the windows they would have been able to get out. They could have [also] got out of the fire exit if that had not been blocked."

Since Mr Sutton's death, his family have been in regular counselling and Mr Sutton, 65, had to give up his job as a bus driver before official retirement age because he was unable to concentrate on the road.

Solace has come from the families of other victims, especially Mr Lewis's mother, Mary, who lives nearby, and a handful of survivors who have kept in touch. They are likely to meet up for Monday's anniversary of the tragedy.

"You think these things happen to other people, not you," Mrs Sutton said. "He was my only son. He was kind of special."

The families are also seeking redress from Where-on-Earth's two owners and the hostel's live-in managers, the Queensland Government and the hostel's owner.

The Mayor of Isis, Bill Trevor, said he was seeking legal advice. A fire service spokesman said the claims would be defended and there had been no breach of duty of care by service employees.

The claims have been brought by the legal firm Slater and Gordon. In a separate action, 59 of the 70 survivors of the fire are seeking damages through the firm.

And in much more recent news, (thankfully no deaths)...

'Trolley blast': explosives wheeled into shopping centre
LINDSAY MURDOCH
February 3, 2010 - 3:41PM

A man pushes a shopping trolley filled with explosive materials into a Darwin insurance company.

At least 15 people have been injured - three seriously - after a man wheeled a shopping trolley into an insurance office in central Darwin and ignited flammable material.

Police said courageous bystanders helped pull injured people from the Territory Insurance Office (TIO) in the centre of the city at 11am (1.30pm AEDT) today.

Did you see the blast? Email us with information and pictures.
Police and forensic investigators (right) at the scene of today's blast.

Police and forensic investigators (right) at the scene of today's blast. Photo: Glenn Campbell

Five of the injured have been admitted to the high dependence unit of the Royal Darwin Hospital. Three have serious burns and two have respiratory problems.

Six of the 13 injured were TIO staff members.

Police said there was no indication at all that this was an act of terrorism and said it was an isolated incident.

One of the injured, a policeman who suffered smoke inhalation, was believed to have been involved in rescuing people from the blast.

The man, reportedly pushed the trolley, which contained three large cans of petrol and a large number of firecrackers, inside the door of the TIO where there were customers and staff. He then left as the trolley exploded.

Ambulances took the injured to Royal Darwin Hospital, where their conditions were being assessed.

Police Commander Rob Kendrick said soon after the explosion, the man surrendered himself at the nearby Darwin Police Station.

The man was a disgruntled customer who had issues with the TIO, police said.

TIO chief executive Richard Harding told reporters outside the office that that he didn’t know what specific complaint the man had.

He said whether investigating that would be up to police.

Police have sealed off the centre of Darwin and are telling shoppers to stay away.

The office of the TIO, the Northern Territory's biggest insurer, is located adjacent to a Woolworths supermarket in a major shopping complex, which lies between Smith and Cavenagh streets.

Five ambulance vehicles are on the scene and Darwin hospital's burns trauma unit is on standby.

Police are moving a bomb detection robot into the building to see if it contains any more explosives.

Charmaine Burton said she heard a noise like a series of firecrackers going off, followed by a loud explosion.

Ms Burton, who was working in a nearby accountant's office, said she ran to the TIO office and saw smoke billowing out.

‘‘The noise was ‘bang, bang, bang’, like 15 to 20 firecrackers, but louder,’’ she said.

Louisa Ainsworth was shopping when she heard the explosion.

"I was shopping at Woolworths and then just started hearing all this crashing and banging, sort of like a roof was collapsing and sort of like a little explosion," she said.

"We just went outside and saw all the smoke and people screaming and running out of TIO."

NT fire brigade Darwin station officer Dave Lines said the supermarket was ablaze when fire crews arrived but it was already mostly controlled by the supermarket’s sprinkler system.

He said the police bomb squad did not send in their bomb detection robot because fire crews had established that the fire was caused by unleaded petrol and fireworks.

He said it appeared the shopping trolley contained three jerry cans of petrol and a cluster of fireworks.

He said the explosions caused a relatively significant amount of damage to the supermarket and he expected it would need to be refitted.

with AAP
 
I see nothing in the first article which relates to guns or gun reform.

The second article might be vaguely apropos in that possibly the guy couldn’t get a gun so he used firecrackers and fuel.

Firecracker reform next?
 
i say put a ban on violence.... that'll work right?:rolleyes:


should work just as well as the bans on drugs, terrorism, illegal immigration, and illegal importation... Oh, and lets not forget bans on drinking and driving, hunting without a licens, fishing without a license, and the current ban on criminals owning guns... those all work so very well...
 
Laws do nothing to prevent crime. They simply describe unlawful behavior and provide penalties. Politicians believe that every new law they write is going to be the law that ends all violence. Yes, they are that stupid. Sheep continue to vote those same morons into office, because they believe that the politicians are actually doing something to prevent crime by pushing these new bans and laws.

The only thing that prevents crime, is criminals locked up in jail. People make a conscious decision to be either a citizen that adds to society in a positive way, or they decide to be a criminal, and act accordingly. They do not take laws into consideration when making this decision.

Just as "gun laws" do not effect the criminal, they also do nothing to stop mass murders/attacks. Do some simple research on things like Jonestown, and other mass murders. The firearm is a poor choice of weapon for any mass murderer. There was a History channel special on mass murderers, and most did not use firearms. Here's a list of them:
http://crime.about.com/od/serial/Serial_Killers_and_Mass_Murderers.htm
 
Should I go there? No, I'll just keep it to myself.
Flat out answer is no.
 
Laws are in place to establish grounds for punishment, not stop the crime itself.

I would add this that the punishment is there, among other things to attempt to deter others from doing the crime. This generally works for those concerned about their future, as is evidenced by the great number of people not in prison. Without the law, and subsequent potential for punishment, I believe there would be a lot more murder, rape, assaults, home invasions, etc. Additionally, revenge for such acts would be rampant, resulting in total chaos and a breakdown of civilzation & society as a whole. Just my opinions...
 
The material in the OP's post may be to point out that mass casualties/mass murder occur as/more often than mass firearms murders and that the basis for regulating firearms in response to mass firearms murders make no more sense than if someone proposed regulating flammable materials by banning them altogether.
 
Laws are in place to establish grounds for punishment, not stop the crime itself.

Think about what you just said.

The fact is, the need to punish a criminal is because he has been determined to have broken the law. The further presumption is that if you punish someone for breaking the law, they will think twice before committing the offense again; while we know that this has been known to deter some from becoming repeat offenders, and others because of the penalties imposed, we also know that it fails to work with some habitual criminals. But that's for another thread.
 
they know gun laws dont work, they want to disarm america for darker reasons.......
 
Every mass public shooting in this country that I can think of took place in a so-called "gun free zone." The rash of school shootings in the late 1990s? Schools and a 1000-foot radius around them are "gun free zones." The McDonald's massacre in San Ysidro, CA in 1984? No CCW in CA, essentially making it a "gun free zone." The Luby's Cafeteria massacre in 1991? No CCW in Texas at that time. The Virginia Tech massacre? That campus was a "gun free zone" although VA has CCW. As you might guess, I have a low opinion of such laws or impositions.
 
The New York Times had an interesting series on "Gun Violence", which included an article on Rampage Killings.

Rampage killings have occurred as far back as you can go. They occur in all socities (running amuck).

Media coverage of rampage killings increase the frequency of them. The more media attention they get, the more copycat rampage killings happen.

There are some very unhappy people out there. As they are contemplating suicide, they see in the media a rampage killing. A little light bulb goes off in their twisted minds, and they learn how to "get back" at society.
 
Wow, this guy sounds like a conspiracy theorist/retard. What does gun reform have to do with arson or burning to death? Someone close this thread already.
 
The fact is, the need to punish a criminal is because he has been determined to have broken the law. The further presumption is that if you punish someone for breaking the law, they will think twice before committing the offense again; while we know that this has been known to deter some from becoming repeat offenders, and others because of the penalties imposed, we also know that it fails to work with some habitual criminals. But that's for another thread.


I mostly agree, however add to that "generate revenue for the city, county state, etc." Think traffic citations, and parking tickets. Millions of folks prove that speed limit laws don't work every year. Many are habitual offenders.
 
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