So here's your choices. Home defense pcc/sbr/carbine (you only get one of two choices) ...

[mcb]

The OP restriction still feel contrived to me. I still don't get why 300 BO is limited in projectile weight for subsonic projectiles, use the best projectile for a given cartridge. My home defense gun is a semi-auto handgun, the carbine does not bring enough advantages in a home defense situation IMHO. I don't currently own a 9mm in anything but the second cylinder of my Ruger Blackhawk convertible.

300 Blackout on the other hand is one of my favorite cartridges. I have two lowers (a carbine and a braced pistol) with a 16-inch upper on the carbine and two uppers for the pistol, a 9-inch and a 5-inch. They all can mount my SDN-6 suppressor. The two pistol uppers get used the most. They are my utility gun of choice being light and compact and with subsonic ammo easy on the ears for dispatching varmints around the hunting property.

16-inch, with an old Burris MTAC 1-4x24 This get used with both subs and supers. I get nearly 2400 fps with Barnes 110gr TAC-TX from this barrel.


9-inch with a Vortex Gen 1 Spitfire 3x prism and SBA3 pistol brass (hopefully this does not have to go away shortly). Almost exclusively used with subsonic ammo, I like the quiet.


5-inch on the same SBA3 braced lower. Vortex Spark AR reddot and 3x magnifier. I only shoot subs in this upper. Not much point to supers in a 5-inch barrel and why abuse my suppressor with that.



I really enjoy 300 BO but I use the best bullet for the application. The above are what I am loading for 300 BO.

Left to right:
Maker REX 220gr all copper projectile. Many an up-armored opossum has been vanquished by this projectile.
Berry's 220gr Spritzer plated bullet. Shoots to almost exactly the same point of aim as the Maker out to about 150 yards but at less than 1/3 the cost.
Speer 125gr TNT. Cheap super sonic plinking ammo that still works really well on the varmints.
Barnes 110gr TAC-TX the round all other 300 BO supers are judged against. Hard to beat this round and if I was going to hunt deer with 300 BO this would be the load of choice. This would also be my load of choice if I was going to run on of my 300 BO as a home defense gun. There is not much point in running less in that particular situation.



This Maker REX 220gr projectile was recover (with the aid of a metal detector) from the ground under the first (of 14) armadillo of 2022. I have never seen a 9mm expand this well.

-rambling with pictures

 

[Pudge]

When you're discussing home defense, choosing between subsonic 147gr 9mm and 150gr 300blk, seems like deciding which is the better deer cartridge for PA, 7mm-08 or .308. If you don't get your deer, it isn't because of the cartridge you chose.

If you're defending your home and choosing between the suppressed 9mm or .300blk you already have, I suspect the intruder has chosen the wrong home, and your survival will not hinge on which weapon you select.

It doesn't fall to ammo commonality and cost for training/practice for the individual, or you'd have me considering my
Rossi M92 and S&W M65 for home defense which I cast and reload for. It is economies of scale for departments that impacts their decisions which leads them to the 9mm. Ammo commonality for a team of operators engaging in a hostage rescue is more significant than a guy waking up and grabbing a carbine to check on a noise at 2am, and when you're buying new ammo for a department as opposed to reloading (and casting) for yourself, the cost matrices are very different.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

You keep mentioning weight. In your OP though, you said that these weapons we're choosing between are within 8 oz of each other. Change your mind?

No uh uh .... the PCCs are actually lighter than the 300 BLK platforms, I was just trying-to make it fair keeping it within 8 oz. And I came to that average after weighing my Aero Precision 8.3" 9mm build and my PSA AR-V 7" PCC against my SIG MCX 8.5" and my PSA 8.5" build both in 300 blk.

I run a Q Thunder Chicken on the 300 BLKs for consistency.

 

[film495]

why supressed?

 

[mcb]

why supressed?

JMHO Once you shoot suppressed you want everything suppressed. The bigger the cartridge the more I want it suppressed. But for home defense I am not sure I want that extra weight or length.

 

[Pudge]

JMHO Once you shoot suppressed you want everything suppressed. The bigger the cartridge the more I want it suppressed. But for home defense I am not sure I want that extra weight or length.

Oh, I really want to talk with MachIVshooter about an integrally suppressed 300blk upper... I'd SBR that, and let this discussion go wherever it leads.

 

[Demi-human]

The OP restriction still feel contrived to me. I still don't get why 300 BO is limited in projectile weight for subsonic projectiles, use the best projectile for a given cartridge.

I agree. Which is my confusion, because we seem to be arguing the merits, or not, of a cartridge. Yet, Falcon, besides deriding me for not understanding where he sits, seems to only engage those who have opinions related to the platform.

So the ammunition choice is a Red Herring.
Which is fine. I’m just trying to understand.

Because the recoil two identically weighted projectile will be the same, as the powder charge will be so similar.(Not the triple I stated before, that is Super charge weight.) The loadout weight will be the same. Everything will be the same.

But the first page just doted on the Nine. So I was waiting for the big reveal! But I guess I just worked myself up.

Okay, so it’s just about the platform then. Why isn’t the choice PCC or Carbine?

And for that, I chose the Carbine. For reliability in gas cycling, consistency in headspacing for ignition, and rifle results while suppressed to the level of an unsuppressed handgun.
I chose a brace to give a finger to the government while I am able, and to have a barrel as short as the lauded SMGs. Without worry of an Out Of Battery ignition, as well as having complete control over my gassing, for the ultimate in reliability or the softest in practice shooting.
I chose the carbine/(pistol really) because it matches all my other carbines and rifles and even one shotgun. Muscle memory and weapons commonality is a thing.
I chose the cartridge I did to have absolute penetration shooting Subs down from my upstairs perch, shooting into the yard. Since I have moved houses, I can gain superior Super sonic terminal results while mitigating the dreaded over penetration. While nine millimeter is cheap, so are the myriad of 150 class 30 caliber FMJ that could sustain that practice, as I do with plated 200 grain bullets. Obviously a handloading affair.

Again, I apologize if I am blunt when I ask for clarification, Falcon. I just don’t see the point of dancing around it, I think I speak rather plainly, but concisely, considering.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Same weight? 9 mm and it's more affordable.

 

[film495]

r

JMHO Once you shoot suppressed you want everything suppressed. The bigger the cartridge the more I want it suppressed. But for home defense I am not sure I want that extra weight or length.

sure, but is subsonic ammo in a home defense situation on purpose a good idea? and you're right, the extra lenght on the end affects interior maneuverability negatively.

 

[Demi-human]

sure, but is subsonic ammo in a home defense situation on purpose a good idea?

I suppose deafness is more desirable than death, but I’d like to avoid both if possible.

The speed at which the bullet strikes an intruder has nothing to do with whether it was legal or not. Nearly all 45 Auto is sub-sonic, and a favorite for defense. No worries.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Just for the record INSIDE a house MY 1 St. choice is 12 gauge #2 shot ,first two rounds, followed by #2 00 buck by #2 #2's again .

As we have NO relatively close neighbors ,I could use a .44 mag but over penetration is senseless IMO

 

[IALoder]

The 9mm with 147's would be my choice out of those two. Probably be a top choice overall for me. Especially a suppressed Sig MCX SBR with an EOTech! Oh yeah!

 

[ChuteTheMall]

9 mm ammo is more widely available.

 

[Old Dog]

With all due respect to the OP: Yeah, I wasn't gonna weigh in 'cause I don't have a dog in this fight (used to have a 300 BLK for work, briefly), but since I don't have (nor believe in the concept) a PCC, and further think that there are better options than 300 BLK for home defense... I'll just say I'm falling on the side of the guys who believe this is a rather contrived situation. For home defense, I'm gonna go with .45 ACP (15 plus 1, suppressed, WML).

If we were talking entry weapons for tactical teams, I could almost see a rationale for the question. Or perhaps if one resided in a locale where ammo choices were restricted. But, as our recent polls have gone, at least this one provided a couple of esoteric choices and perhaps a bit more food for thought.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

Oh, I really want to talk with MachIVshooter about an integrally suppressed 300blk upper... I'd SBR that, and let this discussion go wherever it leads.

You know, if you are so inclined and it's being discussed A LOT with this latest ATF braced pistol mess in limbo ... but you know, if you weld your suppressor to your barrel and it totals over 16" then you're good to-go and you don't have to worry about the SBR stuff ... or, I think that's how all the attorneys are explaining it at the moment.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

With all due respect to the OP: Yeah, I wasn't gonna weigh in 'cause I don't have a dog in this fight (used to have a 300 BLK for work, briefly), but since I don't have (nor believe in the concept) a PCC, and further think that there are better options than 300 BLK for home defense... I'll just say I'm falling on the side of the guys who believe this is a rather contrived situation. For home defense, I'm gonna go with .45 ACP (15 plus 1, suppressed, WML).

If we were talking entry weapons for tactical teams, I could almost see a rationale for the question. Or perhaps if one resided in a locale where ammo choices were restricted. But, as our recent polls have gone, at least this one provided a couple of esoteric choices and perhaps a bit more food for thought.

I guess I'm a bit confused about the ramifications of the word "contrived?"

adjective

1. Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored

Oh well ... anyway, let's move on.

So Old Dog ... you're saying you would choose 45 ACP (supressed) as your sidearm and your PCC in what, 200-220 grains ... over 300 BLK surpressed in 200-220 grains?

You're saying this is a far superior choice to what the military and private security teams are using?

You may be right. 45 ACP is an awesome cartridge but ... why not 40 S&W? Why not 10mm? (Everyone knows that some say the MP5-10 is the greatest subgun ever made.) Why not .357 SIG? Talk about incredible ballistics, reliable feeding, less weight, suppressed ... seems like 357 SIG would be it in a PCC. Or 10 mm would be the ideal. Again, why not 10 mm?

Every single one of those would probably be better than 300 BLK. Every single one of those would allow for a sidearm matching the caliber of the PCC. (Some know why that is important, others do not apparently.)

Just curious. I know most already know this but ... only in the SOGs and SOCOM units, and then not always, does a shooter have a PCC or rifle caliber carbine AND a sidearm. 99% of the military and 70% of private security and contractors carry one or the other, not both.

Anyways, at the risk of further contriveyness (sic) ... I'll not belabor the original question any further or ask for any further input since the contrived accusations are now being slung.

God Bless those that played fair and understood and offered friendly input. Thank you.

Mods ... it will not hurt my feelings if you shut this down. I've learned a lesson. This is worse than 9 vs 45, M9 vs 1911, M14 vs AR15, 7.62 vs 5.56, Ford vs Chevy, Coke vs Pepsi, Ginger vs Maryanne.

 

[BreechFace]

Okay given all of that, all things being relatively equal, which do you choose for home defense?

I think the hang up people are having in this conversation is partly due to your statement in the OP above. But as the thread progressed you increasingly talked about SF units and standardizing rounds between sidearm and PCC, etc.

And I’ll admit the question did really seem contrived (whether intent was there or not) to slant the poll towards 9mm by having the 300BLK subsonic loading leaving 70gr of bullet weight out of the equation, thus neutering some of its benefits over the 9mm pistol round that maxed out its grain weight available to it.

A 220gr expanding projectile designed to penetrate the same as the 150gr will have to expanding more to create the needed resistance in the target (creating a bigger wound channel) moving the same subsonic speeds 1,000-1,050fps as a 150gr is going to put a significant amount more of force into the target. Or if that same 220gr projectile is made to expand the same as its 150gr counterpart will penetrate more, pick and choose between those two. It’s just simple physics.

The whole thread drift that occurred by you with matching sidearm and PCC ammo is a bit of moving the goal posts when everyone was speaking towards a home defense scenario where that benefit matters none.

 

[Old Dog]

I guess I'm a bit confused about the ramifications of the word "contrived?"

adjective

1. Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored

Oh well ... anyway, let's move on.

So Old Dog ... you're saying you would choose 45 ACP (supressed) as your sidearm and your PCC in what, 200-220 grains ... over 300 BLK surpressed in 200-220 grains?

You're saying this is a far superior choice to what the military and private security teams are using?

You may be right. 45 ACP is an awesome cartridge but ... why not 40 S&W? Why not 10mm? (Everyone knows that some say the MP5-10 is the greatest subgun ever made.) Why not .357 SIG? Talk about incredible ballistics, reliable feeding, less weight, suppressed ... seems like 357 SIG would be it in a PCC. Or 10 mm would be the ideal. Again, why not 10 mm?

Every single one of those would probably be better than 300 BLK. Every single one of those would allow for a sidearm matching the caliber of the PCC. (Some know why that is important, others do not apparently.)

Just curious. I know most already know this but ... only in the SOGs and SOCOM units, and then not always, does a shooter have a PCC or rifle caliber carbine AND a sidearm. 99% of the military and 70% of private security and contractors carry one or the other, not both.

Anyways, at the risk of further contriveyness (sic) ... I'll not belabor the original question any further or ask for any further input since the contrived accusations are now being slung.

God Bless those that played fair and understood and offered friendly input. Thank you.

Mods ... it will not hurt my feelings if you shut this down. I've learned a lesson. This is worse than 9 vs 45, M9 vs 1911, M14 vs AR15, 7.62 vs 5.56, Ford vs Chevy, Coke vs Pepsi, Ginger vs Maryanne.

Well, not gonna dissect your response line by line.

But, your OP referred to HOME DEFENSE.

I've been in the military, cleared a few buildings/house/compounds, been on a law enforcement tactical team (or two), done my share of entries.

And what I'd use as an entry team member is not necessarily the same as what I'd use in my own 3,000 square foot single-story house. I know my house. I have good comms with family members and to 911. I'm aware of my local SO's response time. In my own abode, I have defensive weapons staged, know my fields of fire, all distances are known, and I know the materials of the interior and exterior walls, and where all the pipes, metal appliances and thick furniture are located.

MP5? Not a huge fan, gotta few years trigger time on that one. I'd just as soon have my old Colt Commando in 5.56 or a pistol in a decent caliber.

So again, with all due respect, I think your thread proposition is simply another case of overthinking.

 

[hemiram]

9mm, just for the price advantage. I have a 9mm AR type gun, and a Sub2000. Lots of fun to shoot, I have plenty of mags for both (Glock and Beretta 92) and as a house weapon, I don't see the need for more or an oddball round.

 

[tarosean]

Unfortunately for us peons these days, access to SMG's, and the lack of any realistic training with them, is basically nonexistent, so its a moot point.

No not really as transferable SMG's exist and are readily purchasable. Being able to afford it is a separate issue all together.

 

[tarosean]

Put me in the confused side of this conversation. Is the OP planing on slinging the weapon all day/night in his home? If not, why is weight even brought up?

 

[trackskippy]

No not really as transferable SMG's exist and are readily purchasable. Being able to afford it is a separate issue all together.

They do and they are, albeit only whats still available in the registry, and those are more and more out of reach of all but the rich and famous these days. The days of $200-$800 MAC's, MP5's, Thompsons, MP40's, STEN's, etc, have been gone since Reagan screwed us in 86.

The other issue is, most people have no idea how to shoot one. Theres a little more to it than just mashing the trigger till it stops running.