So i got to fire a s&w scandium snubby today...

[tantrix]

Lightweight .357 Magnum J-frames are a bad idea. Even in all steel, a hot load of .38 Special are no fun to shoot, but at least they are manageable enough so you can get some meaningful practice shooting in. You simply cannot practice shooting these lightweight magnums. I have a scandium .38 Special S&W J-frame, and it hurts plenty with standard power .38s. You couldn't pay be to touch off a magnum in a gun that light.

Exactly. It's all marketing...the guns don't actually perform that well with .357 cartidges, it's the word "magnum" that sells. Notice how after they released the scandium .357's all the ammo companies started making crippled .357 loads for use in them.

This is telling me 1 of 2 things: Either the guns can't handle full power .357 loads, or the shooters can't handle the recoil or hit the broad side of a barn with them.

Rather than get a scandium .357 and load it with crippled versions of real magnum ammo (which does pretty bad out of a 2" tube anyway) I got a true .38spl so I could actually shoot more than 1 cylinder when practicing.

The more I think about it, passing on the scandium .357's is one of the best decisions I've ever made.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I wonder how many of the lightweights get real range time. Even my 4" M66 is very uncomfortable with .357 magnums.

Moving on to +P or on to the heavier revolvers is an absolute pleasure.

 

[treebeard]

A few months ago I shot a small scandium frame .357 snubbie with some high velocity .357 rounds and it did not hurt, but it was uncomfortable to say the least. I actually hit the target at 10 yards but I don't know if I could ever get comfortable shooting something like that. I shoot 158gr. XTP-HP's out of my Model 36 Chief's Special and it is just right.

 

[pctech]

Thanks everyone for the helpful responses, especially hceptj. Your summary does give me a good idea of what to expect compaired to my S&W 637 Airweight.

I'm going to do some asking around at my local gun range to see if anyone has an Airlite .357 I can try out before buying one.

 

[MikeB]

I own several Smith J-Frames. I carry a 340SC Airlight. The recoil can be brutal, the worst part is that the gun twists as well during the recoil. I can and do regualary shoot 100 rounds through practicing at the range. Your hand and trigger finger will get sore, it's really not that bad though. I usaully carry .38+p in it.

 

[zoom6zoom]

I only carry standard velocity .38's in my 642. No +P. The ability to stay on target and get that second or third round off quickly and accurately means more to me than a bit more muzzle velocity.

 

[treebeard]

the worst part is that the gun twists as well during the recoil

Yup, that's what it was like!!

 

[MikeB]

Yup, that's what it was like!!

Oh it twists. I actually have a picture around somewhere that was taken as the gun was twisting, I'll have to see if I can find it and post it.

edit - here is the pic, you can see the twisting happen.

 

[Nhsport]

Pretty much my experience . I have owned steel J-frames but ended up leaveing them home more times than not because of the weight. My 642-2 can go with me in my pocket and pretty much is forgotten because of the lightness. It is shootable although not pleasant with +P,I carry them so I train with them from time to time.When I shoot /carry 357 it isn't in anything lighter than my 2 3/4" S&W 686. I don't want to hear about a gun that is 1/2 (1/3?) the weight with grips half the size! The scan and ti guns are crazy in the price dept also!

 

[wcwhitey]

I have been carrying my .38 +P Model 640 for 15 years now 24/7 as an OD or BUG. Recoil have never been a big problem but after 50 rounds of +P I am not really looking forward to another 50. My gun is advertised as being 20 oz. There are times when I wish it was a few ounces lighter but unfortunately I am mandated to carry the steel frame gun. The AirLites in .357 are an engineering marvel but a physics nightmare. I personally cannot see how anyone can expect to become proficient with thier carry gun if it is too painful to shoot. Stout recoil is one thing, but you have to be able to practice. The reports of the bullets unseating and locking up the guns is not good either. I was talking to a gunshop buddy of mine a while back who said he likes the Scandium revolvers because they sell, he has one that he has sold three times. Wonder why? Bill

 

[MikeB]

The reports of the bullets unseating and locking up the guns is not good either.

I've fired thousands of rounds through mine, that has never happened. I've even tried measuring the last round with a caliper before firing it and seen no difference in the OAL of any cartridges.

 

[ravencon]

I could never understand why anyone would have a problem carrying a 20-24 oz (depending on the model) steel J frame.

When I am wearing a business suit I usually pocket carry my Airlite. Sure, a suit jacket will allow me to conceal just about anything with a belt holster. But, I often take the jacket off during lengthy meetings. High quality suit pants are made of very light weight wool. Pocket carrying a steel J frame is not feasible. Indeed, I found that there was a substantial difference between an Airweight and an Airlite for pocket carry when wearing suit pants.

For me the Airlite is a carry often, shoot infrequently gun. It is much more pleasant to do most practice with a steel frame snubby.

 

[wcwhitey]

I believe Smith and Wesson states not to use bullets lighter than 125 grains for that reason. The only time this has happened to me personally was using soft lead .357 SWC's in an old Colt Trooper. They would walk all the time, it's not fun. :banghead:

 

[MikeB]

I believe Smith and Wesson states not to use bullets lighter than 125 grains for that reason.

They say 120grains, it's even on the barrel. I did try some 110 grain, it still didn't make a difference. It's kinda a moot point, I wouldn't carry something that light in a firearm with a 2" barrel anyways.

 

[coach22]

A respectful suggestion to Mike B with the picture of "twisting".
When I shoot a revolver, I always wrap my left thumb over and around the web of my right (shooting) hand. Obviously this grip won't work with an auto, but it makes a world of difference with my revolvers. It helps keep the barrel from rising and reduces twisting. I repeat...a respectful suggestion.
coach22

 

[MikeB]

Normally a good suggestion coach, but with that particular gun and that picture it was more of a support than a two handed grip. I usually shoot it one handed, but had probably shot hundreds of rounds and a whole lot of big heavy firearms that day. That was taken at a THR shoot that happened in PA a few years back. I had been shooting my 445 Supermag most of the day.

 

[Confederate]

I've never even been tempted to try those little revolvers. They were meant for a last ditch gun, I suspect. If you were in a pinch and needed it, I don't suppose you would notice the recoil. It's kind of like people who have had to shoot charging bears. Asked afterwards, they didn't notice the blast or the recoil. One fellow, who shot six .44 magnums at such a bear, said he didn't even have any ringing in his ears. He did, however, devolop a bad case of the shakes after the incident, when the bear was dead.

 

[formerflyer]

I agree with the general consensus here: The recoil of the Ti guns firing full house .357 ammo is somewhere between Unbearable and Unbelievable. They are emergency rescue equipment, not field or plinking firearms. They are best suited to use with .38’s, and are difficult to shoot well with .357’s.

Having said that, I wanted the advantages they offer and came up with a plan to be able to use them. I have the 3” version, and I have a 3” .22 j-frame that’s about the same weight. I fitted both of them with identical Crimson Trace laser grips. I discovered that the point of impact for .38 and .357 was w/in about 2 inches at 15 yards if I stayed with the 158gr bullets, so those are what I carry.

I always start off a practice session by emptying out my carry ammo, both to make sure I’m constantly cycling fresh ammo into the gun and to see what my baseline performance is with no warm up and firing full power ammo. I can place all 5 rounds into about a 6” circle at 15 yards firing very rapidly (Yeay, Lasergrips!). I then practice extensively with the .22 (couple hundred rounds usually), then switch to the 158gr .38’s and shoot a box or so. I then finish off the session with 2 cylinders full of .357 158’s, and that’s the end of the day’s shooting, cause there’ll be no more useful practice after that.

These aren’t fun range sessions, but they do serve the purpose. I can carry that scandium framed “helium monster” with confidence, and it doesn’t print in dress clothing or weigh down my drawers when I’m out for a family hike in comfortable clothing. It serves the purpose.

 

[D-Man]

I was at the range today, and a couple of guys were looking at a titanium snubbie (a Taurus - not sure of the model number). The guy at the counter actually told them he doesn't recommend them because of how tough the recoil is - especially for new shooters which those guys were. Kind of nice to hear the honesty out of the salesperson.

My 642 is enough for me in that size pacakge - I couldn't imagine shooting a .357 round out of it.

 

[brett30030]

How much of a difference would the powder charge be for a 158 grain bullet vs. 125? Would the powder charge be proportionally different based upon bullet weight (i.e. 25%+/- more powder in a 158 gb than a 125gb)?

 

[hceptj]

glad it helps pctech...if your in the dfw area i would be glad to let you try either of mine out...

 

[shooting4fun]

G'day All,

Merry New Year to everyone!

Thought it might be helpful / interesting to share some of my experiences and findings with my SW 360. Let me add that I shoot a bit for fun in the AZ sun. While the majority of my action shooting is with a “bottom feeder” (as Jerry Miculek refers to them, and just like Jerry) I shoot revolvers (a.k.a. Limited 6) on occasion.

I would like to say up front that even with all the entertainment shooting that I do, the SW 360 is not well suited for that purpose. I use the SW 360 for personal protection. It does get a substantial amount of range time appropriate for just that application.

I bought it back when they were relatively new on the market (I'm fairly sure it is way over 4 years ago). In that time I've run all factory loads through it. Everything from the Winchester White box in 38 special up to Remington 180gr CoreLok 357 Mag. hunting loads. It has handled them all with good accuracy. The Remingtons were pretty impressive on the 100 yrd rifle steel targets! Unfortunately, I absorbed my share of the energy too. <Note: this type of activity is not advised for those that are recoil sensitive!>

Ok all that being said, I've pretty much worked out my revolver to know that it shoots well. What I did not realize was that this particular revolver works much better when you shoot it in double action. If you shoot it single action (which I observe most casual wheelgunners to do at the range) it will beat you up! While it is not a pleasant gun to shoot, shooting in in DA mode I find I'm able to shoot it quite a bit more before reaching saturation. Example: When I first got it 10 shots SA and I was pretty much done. While shooting it DA it was better and it wasn't that bad to go through a full box of 50.

I did manage to do some research to improve my situation after I got the idea from watching Shooting Gallery where they interviewed Hamilton Bowen (they work on SWs, and Rugers). There are a number of grip options for the SW revolvers. I found a Hogue grip that was a bit larger in size and still fit the 360. That was all the improvement I needed. This new grip fully surrounds the backstrap so that the only metal contact you have is on the trigger. This is similar to the Ruger GP-100 grip where the rubber grip fully encapsulates the grip stud. Now shooting the 360 is just like running with my 686 less a round. I'm ok with the slightly larger grip cause the benefits are that I can practice more with my carry gun and it drives nicely.

Lastly since I run my pistols and revolvers so much for fun it was important for me to fully understand the proper running and functional design of each pattern. I've always performed the work on my pistols (with a few exceptions). As one who owns and operates Midnight Madness Gunsmithing, my first experience with popping the side plate on an SW wheelie was met with me looking and thinking, “Wow, I've really gone somewhere where I've never been to before...” Just as with the pistols there are some places on the revolvers that will benefit from a small amount of careful attention. That small amount of attention has greatly improved my shooting experience.

So would I run a stock SW 360 in a match? No, that wouldn't be my first choice. Run mine as it as it is now, maybe? Recommend one, sure with provisions! Be well and be warry of that gunstore gossip. Cheers!

 

[Antihero]

How much of a difference would the powder charge be for a 158 grain bullet vs. 125? Would the powder charge be proportionally different based upon bullet weight (i.e. 25%+/- more powder in a 158 gb than a 125gb)?

What are we talking about, reloading or factory ammo???? To answer your question simply, no there isnt a defined less powder between bullet weights.

Im not entirely sure were you're going with this, Why do you ask?

 

[Antihero]

I was at the range today, and a couple of guys were looking at a titanium snubbie (a Taurus - not sure of the model number). The guy at the counter actually told them he doesn't recommend them because of how tough the recoil is - especially for new shooters which those guys were. Kind of nice to hear the honesty out of the salesperson.

Scarily enough there was a large family,who apparently were all first time shooters except the husband whom seemed to know little, that came in just as i was finished with the S&W and the husband was trying to get his wife to rent it saying it would be perfect for her, cause you know the best gun for a woman is a snub nosed revolver and the guy behind the counter didnt say a thing

Credit goes to her for telling him she'd rather fire autos.

 

[pstmstr]

340pd

You'd be surprised at how well the newest model of the Crimson Trace laser grips tames this little blaster. It has an air pocket near the top of the backstrap that sounds like advertsing hype, until you try it. While it's still not pleasant to shoot, it does make it tolerable to practice with.