So...is it legal for them to do this?

[Rumble]

First off, as per the rules here, I am not advocating, nor am I looking for information on, doing anything illegal; no intent to commit a crime here. However, I have a question that may simply be due to ignorance.

I had the urge today to look up "full auto conversions" and see if it was truly the "find it on the internet 5-minutes-of-work" demon summoning process that anti-gun types claim it to be. I was also curious what an auto sear looked like, and to my interest found that it looks like an oddly shaped bit of metal that, if I found it in my garage, I'd probably sweep up and throw away.

In the course of this, I found a site (I'm sure it's not the only one) claiming to sell conversion kits for various weapons, including things like auto sears and so forth. I was under the impression that it was not legal to sell that kind of thing--or is it simply not legal to own that kind of thing, unless it was registered and transferred completely legally? In other words, how does a place get away with offering an auto sear for like, $75? Is that only legally salable to LEO/Military? Or is it all just horsepuckey junk from a "extr33m tactical" online store?

Just curious.

 

[SIOP]

Hence the disclaimer "All NFA Rules Apply".

If it takes you 5 minutes to find all the parts you need, you're not trying very hard.

 

[orangelo]

Those parts do you no good unless you also modify the semi-auto receivers to accept the sear. Typically you have to drill holes and machine away material so a part that doesn't belong in there will fit. Then you have to get a full auto bolt carrier and hope it fits in the semi-auto upper receiver.

After all that you may still have timing issues and have to shim sear trips or machine away extra material.

Anyone that says you can modify a closed-bolt semi-auto into a MG with a factory safety sear and 5 minutes is full of crap.

Those conversion manuals and kits aren't outlawed because there IS a legal market for them. Class 2 SOTs and Police agencies can legally purchase them.

 

[Liberal Gun Nut]

Typically there is some machine work involved, usually modifying the bolt so that it has a surface for the autosear, and modifying the receiver to make the auto-sear work, etc. It's easy to find the blueprints, and a good machinest with good equipment could probably do the mods pretty quickly, but a guy in his garage would have a more difficult time.

It is fairly complicated to put a selector and auto-sear mechanism into an existing semi-auto. It's also complicated, but not really difficult, to build an open-bolt slam-fire gun from a parts kit. It's stupidly easy (30 seconds or less) to build a gun that meets the ATF definition of "automatic". Get a double-barrel shotgun with two triggers and bend a paperclip to join the triggers together, and that is, according to the BATF, an "automatic weapon".

 

[orangelo]

The factory MG parts won't fit in a legal ATF approved semi-auto without major work, but it's easy to jury rig something together that the ATF would consider illegal. Just take the shoestring off one of your feet and in 3 seconds you got an unregistered MG.

But it's ALREADY illegal. What do the idiotic gungrabbers suggest they do about it? Make it doubly or triply illegal and mandate everyone wear sandals?

 

[S.P.E.C.T.R.E.]

Also, I read on another forum that simply owning the parts to make a gun full auto is not illegal, it's the implementation (check local and federal laws of course).

 

[ctdonath]

I found a site claiming to sell conversion kits for various weapons

Stay away. Far away. Very illegal.

In NFA circles such ads are generally presumed to be either
- Some shyster who has figured out exactly how close he can get to the line legally while you pay for the opportunity to step over that line illegally, or
- BATFE agents running an ongoing sting.
Either way, buyers are facing a long time in <Art's Grammaw disapproved> prison.

Legal auto sears run a minimum of 5-digit price tags - and that, as you put it, for something you'd sweep up in your garage and toss out without realizing it.

The only "legal" ones that don't cost too much and won't get you incarcerated are legal only for police & military - who can cheaply buy real machinguns without screwing around with trying to install auto sears.

Yes, there are parts & tricks for making some guns full auto with relative ease. They can all-too-easily get you jailed or killed. Stay far away. Do not take NFA law lightly.

 

[Rumble]

Thanks, all. As I said, I have no intention of doing anything illegal; were I to obtain a full-auto weapon, it would be after a home equity loan and the complete and proper NFA process.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I am not sure but they might be sold as replacement parts for legally owned NFA weapons. I am pretty sure however, that the mere possession of those parts along with the weapon they belong to implies intent to create an illegally converted automatic weapon to the BATFE. I'd stay far, far away from them if I didn't have the paperwork that said I could own them.

On a side note, it sucks really, really bad. And people say we live in a free country...

 

[ctdonath]

they might be sold as replacement parts for legally owned NFA weapons.

No, they're not. Legally (and stupidly) they ARE the machinegun (regarding what you're talking about; registered receivers are a different issue - it all gets stupidly complicated really fast).

<Quote removed by Art>

<Art's Grammaw cleaned up the rest of it.>

Gov't takes some laws more seriously than others. The most seriously taken are threats to gov't officials, mail fraud and NFA violations.