So many to choose and So many variables.

[JohnGibson]

Hi THR,

I started learning how to shoot and how to handle a handgun. I can be an analyst and technical when it comes to certain things, this happens to be one of them. I have shot (50rnds +/-) from a Walther P22, Ruger Mark 3, Ruger Single Ten, Ruger SR40, SW MP40, RI 1911 .45, SA XD9, Glock 19 9mm, Glock 22 .40, Sig P226 .40, and CZ 75 .40. I have talked to a few gun shop guys and even to an instructor, everyone has something different to say.

To get to the point I am a left handed shooter, I live in California, have a range membership with free gun rental but their ammo is expensive. I was thinking of getting a .22 to practice the fundamentals. Some people say its a good start. I have one guy who told me a .22 won't make me a better shooter. He says find a gun that you like and practice with that one over and over until you get good, basically skip a .22.

I like the Walther P22, it fits my hands nice, light, inexpensive and so is the ammo. I know some people either hate it or love it. I like the SW MP, feels great in my hands, is ambidextrous, but I don't know if I want a .40 or .45. Same thing goes for the Sig P226. The SA XD be my third choice from the SW and Sig. I do not like the feel of the Glocks at all. I am not into revolers... yet. The CZ 75 felt fine but I couldn't shoot with it, maybe user errors. Then another thing is the length of the barrel, 4" or longer? :banghead:

Guns I would like to try are the H&K USP, Beretta Storm, and the H&K P2000. The H&K P2000 was recommend because it was ambidextrous, but would cost around $1100. Guns that are not ambidextrous I would have to learn how to release the slide with the trigger finger.

As of now I was thinking of a Walther P22 and a SW MP (not sure on the caliber). I am not sure if I should get a P22 as a .22 or a different .22, don't really care for the look or feel of the Ruger. I was even thinking of the SW Model 41 but don't know where I could try one out and its an expensive .22. I need some suggestions/recommendations. I would appreciate all and any comments.

Thanks

 

[vvanders]

People that discount .22 don't know what they are talking about. About the only thing the .22 won't help you with is follow up shots on larger calibers, however all of the other fundamentals apply.

Plus ammo .22 ammo can be 1/10th of the cost, do the math. More ammo = more practice time = better competency.

I love my 45s, but they are expensive to feed.

I don't know much about the P22, however the Ruger Mark 3 is the gold standard, if you didn't like the regular one I suggest you try the 22/45, it's got a different grip angle(and cheaper to boot).

 

[scottsvillesol]

if you are planning to get an M&P in a larger caliber and .22 pistol you may want to look at the new M&P 22 pistol. I don't know what the availability is yet but it may be something to think about. MSRP is around $420 hopefully that would put a street price around $350, which is reasonable.

 

[mdThanatos]

Are controls on both sides of a firearm an absolute requirement? I always slingshot the slide after a magazine change, never using the slide stop. What issues were you having with the CZ75?

I am going to throw out my observations here, correct me if I am wrong with anything. This will be your first handgun, you don't reload, and you don't have much experience with handguns. This will primarily be a range tool so carrying it isn't a primary concern. You are unsure of what caliber to select as well as what handgun you want. You have a small amount of range time with what looks like 11 different models and the only ones that seem to have stood out is the Walther P22 and the M&P.

Based on what I have taken in from your post I will suggest a .22 to start with. There are several reasons why. As it was stated above, fundamentals and cost of .22 is very advantageous. Without being a reloader, centerfire calibers can become quite expensive which may hinder how much you can shoot, again repeating what vvanders said as I feel he hit the nail on the head.

 

[sigarms228]

I think a .22 pistol is an excellent idea!! Cheap ammo to let you practice a lot on the fundamentals to become a good shooter.

As far as an excellent ambidextrous, or otherwise excellent, center fire pistol be sure to take a look at the German made Walther P99 AS or Walther PPQ. I have the Walther PPQ in 9MM and have been amazed by it in so many ways.

 

[weisse52]

I have one guy who told me a .22 won't make me a better shooter. He says find a gun that you like and practice with that one over and over until you get good, basically skip a .22.

I would suggest this was a foolish comment. A .22 is a great way to learn to shoot. I take a .22 with me every time I go to the range. I have .22 conversion units for my 1911's and have had them for the full size Glocks as well.

I think a great option is to buy a center fire handgun and then make sure you can get a .22 conversion unit for it. Such as 1911's, Sig's and I think CZ. If that don't work for you, then you cannot go wrong with a Ruger.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Tcruse]

I agree that to start with a 22, say Ruger MIII is a good idea. I also think that you should not "write off" Glock without trying the Gen4 17. Glock is a little different and does take some experience to really like it. Not that Glock is right for everyone, but if you learn to use one Glock well you can shoot any of the Glock family. It took me several purchases before I came to the conclusion that Glock was best for me, nobody could tell me, I had to find out for myself. The discussion of which caliber is best can be argued about all day. The bottom line is many times just preference to what you like. The best ammo in any of the common sizes will provide good SD/HD performance. Remember that you will (should?) spend much more for the ammo than the gun, over time. 9mm is much lower priced and is very easy to find sales at the large stores, at least in this area, you can stay at less than $.20 per round, $.18 to $.19 is normal for per box local purchases.

M&P and CZ are also very respected and good choices.

 

[orionengnr]

Welcome to THR!

I have one guy who told me a .22 won't make me a better shooter.

Honestly, I would have a hard time taking anything he says seriously in the future.

When I finally moved to a Free State and started looking into getting my CHL, my first concern was learning to shoot better.
In the short term I took some instruction, and then I bought a .22 so I could shoot frequently.
Then I started saving my brass (and any others I could scrounge) knowing that I would start handloading one day. That day came sooner than I thought

Once I started shooting once a week, the improvement was noticeable. I attribute most of that to shooting frequently and re-inforcing what I had learned. All the mechanics are directly translatable...stance, breathing, sight alignment, trigger press.

As a prior poster stated, the only thing different is the recoil and how quickly you get back on target.

Having a centerfire pistol that you like with a .22 conversion is one solution...if you are sure of the centerfire platform you want to commit to.
That was not my choice, because the conversion cost about what the .22 did, and I could not justify that, especially since I did a bit of horse-trading before I figured out what I really enjoy shooting and shoot well.

I still shoot weekly, and I still start each session with 50-100 rounds of .22LR, then I transition to the centerfire. Still saves money on ammo, still serves as valuable trigger time.

Enjoy your Search.

 

[481]

You can't go wrong begining with the fundamentals.

I'd recommend starting with the .22 . (whatever design fits your hand the best)

It offers the least expense, recoil and muzzle blast (these things have been known to put beginner's off) and the skills that you develop will transfer to whatever you acquire next.

 

[Valkman]

I have one guy who told me a .22 won't make me a better shooter.

Wow. Not only is he an idiot, but plain wrong. You can learn a lot shooting .22, like in Bullseye for instance. Shooting .22 and .45 in that sport made me into a much, much better shot.

The S&W M41 would be a superb .22 and yes they're more expensive but worth every penny. I have an older one and the first time I shot Bullseye with it my score went up 10 points, just because the trigger was soooo nice.

 

[JohnGibson]

For some reason I was shooting all over the place with the CZ. It was probably user error.

Hey Sig, that's some nice shooting with that P22 at 25yd.

I'm not sure how important it is to use the slide release button. I have been pulling the slide back manually to load it. If I could find a gun for left handed that would be great but I could live with a right handed gun given that the mag release is ambidextrous.

I am still planing on getting a .22. I actually enjoy shooting the .22. The guy who told me not to get a .22 has been supposedly shooting since he could hold a gun from what he says. He did seem like a meat head. He also told me that only "oakys" like Ruger and if I bought one he wouldn't want to sell it to me. That guy cursed a lot to for being on the clock.

I looked up reloading as well but since I'm new to this I probably shouldn't investing in it until I start to shoot more. I can understand shooting anything bigger than .22 could get costly since I been shooting a lot of .40 and .45. I also go a Lula loader because reloading those .40 and .45 rounds were starting to hurt my thumb and taking away time from my shooting. For some reason I'm afraid that a round would go off in my hand because I'm putting so much pressure on the bullet when loading. Since I'm on the subject of ammo, how likely are those ammo to go off without being in a gun. For example, I see ammo cases with ammo just thrown in and slamming against each other. I know it takes a lot of force of the pin to hit the primer to set it off but since I'm new I just think about stuff like that. If you threw a loaded casing at a concrete wall or ground would it be enough force to set it off?

As for conversion kits I'm not sure if its what I want. I rather buy a gun that was made to be a .22 gun and etc. That also gives me a reason to buy more guns. I like the P22 and the MP because they felt the best in my hands and I shot them the best, that and the Sig P226.

Thanks for the replies. It helps a lot.

 

[Wapato]

For the .22 part.

It's mostly about cost, and for kids its great to get to learn on something that isn't going to beat up their hand and give them a flinch.

I could see an argument that the lack of recoil might let you see if early accuracy problems are due to how you pull the trigger as opposed to how you deal with recoil. But there are through bore laser kits that probably do that better these days.

Anyway, the question is what limits your training? If you're limited by cost, than a .22 could be a great way to go.

However if you can handle and afford the larger cartridges and your limiting factor is time, than maybe skip it.

 

[wbwanzer]

I've had two CZs and couldn't shoot either one well, but I don't blame the gun. They are fine pistols.

If you choose to skip the .22 and go for something larger, the FNX pistols are completely ambidextrous except for the take down lever.

 

[DAdams]

+1 for the Walther PPQ in 9mm. Ambi control, awesome ergonomics, new and updated warranty from Walther. Mags are fairly reasonable as they share with late model P99 and SW99. Trigger is awesome. See if you can get your hands on one. Price is pretty decent too. I have seen them in the $490 range which a good price for an outstanding gun.
9mm isn't too expensive but it isn't .22. But after a week of .22LR and if you want something that can act as a PD/HD item you are going to want something with a little more HP (horsepower).
If you can afford both, sure start with a .22 and do some research looking toward the future, but if you can't afford both I would go ahead and do the 9mm, someday you will want a .22 anyway.

 

[jj1962hemi]

I started with a Ruger MkII and still have it 25 years later! My kids like it and, based not just on cost, but also on comfort, it's the handgun that gets the most use by me. You might also want to try a Beretta NEOS. I don;t think you can go wrong with any of the 22s being discussed. I would avoid a Ruger Single Six in .22 if it's to be your only .22. It can be annoying to reload, although it's a nice gun.

If you are not dollar limited for a bigger gun, I'd go with q 40 S&W over a 9MM. In a compact gun, a 9MM makes a lot of sense. I own a few Taurus PTs (9MM and 40SW) and like them both. They have ambi safeties. I've been thinking about holding my nose and buying a Glock due to practicality.

Whatever you decide, welcome to the fraternity brother! It's a great hobby that will become a great way to defend yourself when you get more practiced. BTW, I admire your trying so many different guns. With the free rentals, I would go through 100 rounds with each gun you are considering before you decide on your second (non-.22) gun.

Welcome to THR!

 

[JohnGibson]

Thanks for more suggestions. If things work out and I have free time next week I think I'll go pick up the Walther P22. Does anyone know what kind of price range I should be looking at or how much I could talk to shop down? Since this is my first gun I would like to buy it local and support local business. Also the different colors that the P22 comes in are those hard to come by can I just order them and not have to wait a long time?

In the mean time I'll probably go to the range more and try out more guns. I just hate buy their ammo because it's almost double in price.

I also want to try and get my CCW but I hear there's a long wait for that. Even when I called the sheriffs office, no one picked up the phone for that department. I want to go with them first before I try PD.

In the future I would like to own a gun in most category if it still holds my interest.

 

[signalzero]

Thanks for more suggestions. If things work out and I have free time next week I think I'll go pick up the Walther P22. Does anyone know what kind of price range I should be looking at or how much I could talk to shop down? Since this is my first gun I would like to buy it local and support local business. Also the different colors that the P22 comes in are those hard to come by can I just order them and not have to wait a long time?

In the mean time I'll probably go to the range more and try out more guns. I just hate buy their ammo because it's almost double in price.

I also want to try and get my CCW but I hear there's a long wait for that. Even when I called the sheriffs office, no one picked up the phone for that department. I want to go with them first before I try PD.

In the future I would like to own a gun in most category if it still holds my interest.

Buying local is always good (easiest way actually). I'm not sure on pricing, but I'd call around and see.

As for CCW, it's difficult to obtain a CCW in California (primarily because most counties/cities in CA ask you to demonstrate a need [not want] for a CCW permit). Also, in some areas, you are required to request a CCW from your local city PD if they offer CCW permits. If not, you're fine going with the Sheriff's. Usually the police department website will specify. Good luck all the same - and if you are able to successfully go through the process and be approved for CCW, come back and share how you did it.

 

[JohnGibson]

Bought the Walther P22 today at my local shop. It was their display model (new) for $369.99, military green. I was a little effy about buying their display model but he told me that he would like to get me a new one but right now he doesn't know how long it will take. With taxes and background check fee it came out to $424. Is this a pretty decent price? Most places I called around were starting at $400. My pick up date is Friday the 13th but I won't be about to get it until the following Tuesday. I'll upload a picture when I get home, on my phone at the moment.

 

[JohnGibson]

Here it is...

 

[mdThanatos]

The $424 is about $50 more than I would have been able to get it locally in Texas, $349.99 plus tax would have brought it to about $378. Congrats on the purchase though.

 

[JohnGibson]

Texas does not require a background check fee ($25)? The gun was $369.99 which is only $20 more than $349.99, subtotal.

 

[JohnGibson]

I picked up my P22 this week and went to the range and fired almost 500 rounds of CCI mini mags through it and not a single problem. No failure to fire and no failure to feed. I used 3 magazine total. After my session I went home, field strip, cleaned, oiled, changed out my front sight, wipe down and stored for the next trip. I also order the MP 15-22 and should have it soon. Once my 30 days is up I'm going to pick up a MP45 then an AR-15.