SO, the ATF now has my name and address.. wanna know why?
- Thread starter PT1911
- Start date
- Status
Yup, not quite sure where people are getting the idea it doesn't... I think the confusion is that NICS doesn't require anything past "Long arm or handgun", while the 4473 surely does.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
What's most amazing about that is people have been signing 4473's for years and didn't even know what they were signing. Always read the fine print
BCCL
Member
Relax folks, it's the ATF...what could go wrong?
NMGonzo
Member
They are going to send you an offer that you can't refuse ...
For an awesome deal on a xm15 with all the goodies!!!!!
For an awesome deal on a xm15 with all the goodies!!!!!
Guns and more
member
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,929
Because Janet Napolitano said AK's are scary and only bad people buy them.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
1. Are you guys SURE this is illegal? Because I thought that that is EXACTLY what they are allowed and expected to do with 4473s when a crime occurs - go in and get the info they need to track down the criminal. I.e. crime was committed with an AK yesterday; go look and see who all bought one; follow up to see if any were unaccounted for (stolen) or if the buyer matches the suspect description, etc., etc., etc. I don't like it one bit, but I thought that that was precisely the point of having the 4473s on hand; to follow up with and get info off of manually (in person) since (thankfully) they're not allowed to keep the info in a registry (at least in theory). Presumably there was a crime here that had happened, sounds like. Any evidence that they were NOT just investigating a crime which had occurred with a suspect using an AK? Perhaps they should be required to prove that they are investigating a specific crime to do this.... but what if they just don't say one way or another whether or not they are investigating a specific crime/
2. Why would anyone here doubt any of this for a second? First, as mentioned, if they are investigating a crime, then it makes sense and is presumably legal. Second, even if they're not, would you really put ANYTHING past the BATFE, the group who just seized $12,000 in toy guns from a toy gun importer dealer because "they can easily be converted to dangerous weapons?" Really?
3. Are you an NRA member, PT?
2. Why would anyone here doubt any of this for a second? First, as mentioned, if they are investigating a crime, then it makes sense and is presumably legal. Second, even if they're not, would you really put ANYTHING past the BATFE, the group who just seized $12,000 in toy guns from a toy gun importer dealer because "they can easily be converted to dangerous weapons?" Really?
3. Are you an NRA member, PT?
Last edited:
CoRoMo
Member
Apparently, no crime occurred... well... except for the one the ATF inspector committed.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
How do we KNOW that they were not investigating a crime? I'm just asking; maybe there's something I don't understand. As I said/asked above:
CoRoMo
Member
I don't think we know anything at all.
No that is not how it works.
Firearm is recovered after a crime, or the serial number is read in surveillance footage, or is visible in a picture on someone under investigation etc.
They then use that serial number to contact the factory or distributor and find out where that specific firearm was sent to be sold.
They then call or show up at that location and request information on that specific firearm with that specific serial number.
They then know exactly who purchased that firearm from the store.
That is how it works, and that is closer to how they are supposed to do it. Tracing a firearm that has been used in a crime.
Not building a database essentially registering all owners of certain firearm types just in case one may be used in a crime. And not obtaining all firearm records from some region or area just to create a database and fish and see if one of thousands of purchasers are a criminal they want to find.
That is not legal, though they may choose to argue otherwise.
Of course many local areas have even more details on firearm transactions, some even actually do have registration. In those areas the federal authorities can work with local LEO or state agencies and may use the existing databases.
So in states that require listing serial numbers on licenses, or that register certain firearms when purchased or transferred or keep more centrally located detailed information on transactions, they don't have to do as much work.
In those states they may never even need to contact the FFL to get the information as it is already kept by the state in a much easier to browse format combining all such transactions, like a database or where they keep such state records. And so they only actually need to contact the FFL if they wish to deal with them specifically.
The feds may also unofficially obtain copies of those state and local databases. So if your state keeps track of firearms, the feds will likely obtain that information on state residents not involved in the investigation during various investigations on other individuals.
In states with more firearm owner protections that do not allow the government to keep firearm information, they must go to the individual FFL to obtain records.
Last edited:
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Oh, it's a government form and one from ATF to boot, it takes a bit of insanity to make sense of it anyway.
If it made sense to someone at first reading that's a sign of mental illness
Officers'Wife
Member
You have to remember- their job is to enforce the law, they feel duty none to obey it.
- Status
