So what is a Hollow Soft Point?

[Swampman]

Only 1790 fps at the muzzle?

Is Winchester trying to 8mm Mauserize the .30 Carbine?

My 40 year old Korean surplus averages over 2000 fps.

Hornady claims 2000 fps for their 110 gr. Critical Defense load.

The description was obviously written by some lawyer who's never even held a firearm.

Probably the same one that came up with their load data...

 

[Archie]

I recall a 9x19mm pistol round called the BAT bullet. BAT stood for something - Ballistic Action Talkalot - or something. They were a light for caliber jacketed bullet with a hollow point that continued to the base of the bullet. The hole was plugged with a plastic wad that fitted into the base of the hole, then fell off after the bullet left the barrel. It was supposed to retain velocity longer as the hole made it more streamlined. It comes to mind it was a European ammunition company.

Not around anymore. Apparently not enough shooters felt it was worth spending the price.

I have a .30 Carbine for a house gun. I don't shoot it enough to to stock a lot of ammo, but it is handy. I think I have a box (50) of Hornady soft point ammunition for it.

 

[whm1974]

View attachment 914891
Only 1790 fps at the muzzle?

Is Winchester trying to 8mm Mauserize the .30 Carbine?

My 40 year old Korean surplus averages over 2000 fps.

Hornady claims 2000 fps for their 110 gr. Critical Defense load.
Probably the same one that came up with their load data...

If memory serves, bog standard 8x57mm Mauser rifle ammo was set ~180 grains @ ~2800+ fps. .30 Carbine is 110 grains @ ~1800 fps. An extra 70 grains with a 1000+ higher velocity is way more powerful then mere light carbine ammo.

8mm Kurz is somewhat hotter and used pointed bullets w/boattails, but both intermediate cartridges are best limited to 300 yards and much less...

 

[Demi-human]

I had no idea that Cheaper Then Dirt had such a poor rep... How come?

Well over a dollar a piece for White box Thirty Carbine should be the first evidence.

If you buy another product at the same time, there will be zero chance it is at that "warehouse" and must be shipped from another, with seprate shipping and handling charges.

If the supply is under strain they will cancel your order, and magically find more stock at a different warehouse for double the price.

No business is perfect, but you won't find any of those Shenanigans at Brownells, Midway, Mid South Shooters, Powder Valley or Brunos.
Verily, I don't find those kind of gut punches even at other, non-warehouse owning, drop shippers, like Valhalla Tactical and Schulyers Arms.

Unfortunately, there are no shortages of new shooters looking for deals to Shanghai.
Avoid them. And tell anyone you know to as well.

 

[daniel craig]

Hmmmm, why not just use a Sierra #2100?
.308 OD, 110gr JSP.

Cuz it ain’t a hollow point. Also, I don’t reload....yet. I was just speculating out loud.

 

[natman]

The Winchester Hollow Soft Point for 30 Carbine is a round nose soft point with a tiny hole, maybe 1/16", in the tip. It's much smaller than most pistol hollow points, but then the 30 carbine gets a good deal more velocity out of a carbine barrel than pistol rounds get out of a pistol barrel, so a big hollow point would expand faster than desired. In fact I suspect that while hollow points are a big deal for pistols, at carbine velocities a plain soft point would work just as well.

 

[Speedo66]

So wonder about what the current pricing of .30 Carbine ammo is, I found type I never heard of aviable from Winchester sold here:
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/win...ow-sp-110-grains-x30m1/FC-40020892200072.html
Is this something Winchester came up with? Any advantages of this bullet over Standard Hollow and Soft points?

Wow, what a great price, only $63.45 a box, but you have to buy 10 boxes to get that super price.

Or, you could buy a box of PPU .30 Carbine soft point at AIM Surplus for almost 1/4 the price, $17.95, and you only have to buy one.

Treats You Like Dirt strikes again!

 

[Speedo66]

I've about some Police Departments during the 60's and 70's that were given M1 Carbines, using hot loaded HP and SP ammo that had a really number of one shot stops.

Det. Jim Cirillo of the NYPD Stakeout Squad did a nice job with one.

 

[hso]

Semijacketed hollow tip.

 

[whm1974]

Wow, what a great price, only $63.45 a box, but you have to buy 10 boxes to get that super price.

Or, you could buy a box of PPU .30 Carbine soft point at AIM Surplus for almost 1/4 the price, $17.95, and you only have to buy one.

Treats You Like Dirt strikes again!

No way in Hell will I pay that much for ammo, especially ammo I plan on shooting regularly.

 

[Meeks36]

Step away from cheaper than diamonds. Let's put them fools out of business. Targetsportsusa.com is what I use paid the $95 get 10% off order and free shipping. I've have come close to making my money back. Ordered a tonne. It takes a few weeks for shipping though.

 

[boom boom]

Det. Jim Cirillo of the NYPD Stakeout Squad did a nice job with one.

Yep, though, Cirillo mentions that these carbines were worked over by the NYPD armorers to feed softpoints reliably.

 

[Swampman]

If memory serves, bog standard 8x57mm Mauser rifle ammo was set ~180 grains @ ~2800+ fps. .30 Carbine is 110 grains @ ~1800 fps. An extra 70 grains with a 1000+ higher velocity is way more powerful then mere light carbine ammo...

I guess "bog standard" depends on if it's a European bog (CIP max pressure 3900 bar or 56,500 psi) or an American bog (SAAMI max pressure 35,000 psi).

The .30 Carbine standard is not, and never has been 1800 fps for a 110 grain bullet. The military standard for M1 ball carbine ammo was 1900 fps at 53 feet from the muzzle, which translates to about 1980 fps at the muzzle.
That's about what most commercial .30 Carbine is advertised as.

I guess I was unclear, but I was simply comparing severely underloaded .30 Carbine ammo to the American standard of severely underloaded 8mm Mauser.

I thought this audience would understand that.

I wonder how many other readers thought I was actually comparing power levels of an anemic .30 Carbine load to a very hot 8mm Mauser load?

 

[whm1974]

I guess "bog standard" depends on if it's a European bog (CIP max pressure 3900 bar or 56,500 psi) or an American bog (SAAMI max pressure 35,000 psi).

The .30 Carbine standard is not, and never has been 1800 fps for a 110 grain bullet. The military standard for M1 ball carbine ammo was 1900 fps at 53 feet from the muzzle, which translates to about 1980 fps at the muzzle.
That's about what most commercial .30 Carbine is advertised as.

I guess I was unclear, but I was simply comparing severely underloaded .30 Carbine ammo to the American standard of severely underloaded 8mm Mauser.

I thought this audience would understand that.

I wonder how many other readers thought I was actually comparing power levels of an anemic .30 Carbine load to a very hot 8mm Mauser load?

I wouldn't be calling getting hit by a light rifle bullet @ roughly ~1800 fps, 180 fps then standard loading, anemic which will be nary any difference...

 

[Swampman]

So wonder about what the current pricing of .30 Carbine ammo is, I found type I never heard of aviable from Winchester sold here...Is this something Winchester came up with? Any advantages of this bullet over Standard Hollow and Soft points?

The "Hollow Soft Point" is entirely a marketing gimmick.
Here's a 110 grain Speer jacketed hollowpoint:

Note that the "softpoint" on this bullet is considerably larger than the Winchester version, as is the hollowpoint. But since it's been around for 30+ years, it's just a lowly JHP.

If you're looking for good quality "shooter" grade .30 Carbine ammunition, SGAmmo has 1080 round cans of PMC South Korean surplus ammo for @36 cents a round.
https://www.sgammo.com/product/30-c...e-110-grain-fmj-ammo-strippers-and-bandoliers

 

[whm1974]

The "Hollow Soft Point" is entirely a marketing gimmick.
Here's a 110 grain Speer jacketed hollowpoint:
View attachment 915063
Note that the "softpoint" on this bullet is considerably larger than the Winchester version, as is the hollowpoint. But since it's been around for 30+ years, it's just a lowly JHP.

If you're looking for good quality "shooter" grade .30 Carbine ammunition, SGAmmo has 1080 round cans of PMC South Korean surplus ammo for @36 cents a round.
https://www.sgammo.com/product/30-c...e-110-grain-fmj-ammo-strippers-and-bandoliers

I won't swear to it since it has been 13, 14 years ago, but I think I paid ~$10 for 250 count back then sometime after I brought my S&W Model 10. That was lead 158 grain SWC for .38 Special.

 

[Jack Ryan]

The "Hollow Soft Point" is entirely a marketing gimmick.

Exactly. Just like hollow point shotgun slugs. New and improved 9mm ammo. Pump shotguns with detachable magazines and the 300 Black out.

 

[Dudedog]

Target Sports has some PPU FMJ in stock out of stock on the Hornady I showed earlier.
.36 ea for new