A different kind of hollow point ammo for pistol caliber carbines? Soft point ammo?

[peacebutready]

@Mycin: Thanks.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The OP was about Pistol Caliber Carbines in the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP calibers.
Like other posters, I have a .357 Rossi M92 and was surprised at the substantial gain in velocity in a 20" barrel over 4" - 6" revolver barrels with the .357.
To the OP, I also have a .45 ACP AO TM1 carbine with 16" barrel and the velocity gain over 5" pistol is not impressive: about 100 fps which is also the gain of the 10.5" Thompson M1 SMG barrel over the 5" 1911 pistol barrel.

ADDED: Main reason for the pistol caliber carbine is to have a long arm and a side arm using the same ammunition. Once you start thinking about separate carbine and pistol loads, the PPC loses its appeal.

 

[Jim Watson]

Once you start thinking about separate carbine and pistol loads, the PPC loses its appeal.

That is what I thought, but the number of carbineers around here tailoring loads for the shoulder weapon is substantial.

 

[Mycin]

Once you start thinking about separate carbine and pistol loads, the PPC loses its appeal.

To a point, I agree. However, it's been an interesting learning experience looking for loads that would work in both platforms. An intellectual challenge brings its own rewards.

The most obvious approach is to use hard-cast bullets, assuming they don't lead too badly in either firearm. This seems like a better approach for larger calibers than my .357 since they make a bigger hole without expansion, but Elmer Keith gathered plenty of game with hard-cast .357 SWC bullets.

I have hopes that the 180gr Swift A-Frame I mentioned earlier might work out of both platforms. I need to gather up some jugs of water and head to the farm for some poor-boy ballistic tests. Maybe in a couple of weeks.

 

[Mycin]

@Mycin: Thanks.

No problem.

 

[bfoosh006]

Here are my velocities from my 16" 9x19. ( A bunch )

And I am going to add about 50+ more this weekend... including a Atlantic Arms Major load with a claimed pistol velocity of 1170fps....

Part of the reason for my test was this very subject....

And remember the 9x19 has a trajectory like a 22LR from a rifle... good out to about 125yds... then it drops fast.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...fferent-9x19-oem-rounds-chronographed.820445/


Ultimately... you can see that if you choose your ammo wisely, I see heavier rounds ( 135gr - 147gr ) being a good up close round, say inside 50yds.... followed by 124grs being in their performance window at 25-100yds...and frankly... most 115gr are going to be questionable in reliable expansion v. fragmenting. ( remember bullet design matters a lot )

The Fed. XM9001 would make an excellent varmint round... .. when fired from a 16" carbine.

 

[Llama Bob]

Once you start thinking about separate carbine and pistol loads, the PPC loses its appeal.

In the modern form, the appeal was pretty hard to find to begin with - imagine a gun with the size of a rifle, the exterior ballistics of a pistol, terminal ballistics worse than a pistol, and the manufacturing quality of a Kel-Tek. Sign me up

Back when lead bullets were the apex of terminal ballistics and quality carbines were made by Winchester and Colt, it made a bit more sense.

 

[444]

I am just repeating what has already been posted, but years ago, I did my own tests of several pistol caliber carbines vs. various handgun barrel lengths using multiple loads of different powders with different burn rates. In 9mm I had several barrel lengths to test. Same in .357. In .45 Colt I only owned one handgun and one rifle. Anyway, as has been mentioned already, in 9mm there was some velocity increase with longer barrels but it wasn't substantial compared to the .357 and the .45 Colt. In the revolver cartridges, there were BIG velocity increases.
I didn't make any attempt to tailor loads to the barrel length. But I did find that the fastest load was the same load in either platform. If it was the fastest load in the pistol, it was also the fastest load in the carbine.
That being said, if I was looking for a load to shoot out of a carbine in 9mm, I would go for the 147 grain bullet just because of the weight and the fact that you get a little more velocity out of the carbine than you would with a pistol.

At the time, I posted very detailed information about my tests on some gun forum, possibly this one, but this was at least 10 years ago.

 

[Corn-Picker]

I'm a little late to the party, but the 9mm/40S&W have faster bretheren, like the 357sig/10mm. Presumably someone has developed bullets for the 357sig that work from a 5" barrel, which according to BBTI is close to the velocity you would get from a 16" barrel with a PCC in 9mm (for 115 and 125 grain Cor-Bon anyway). Or does it not work that way, and do bullet manufacturers develop the 9mm/40S&W bullets for handguns and use the same bullets as an afterthought for the 357sig/10mm?

 

[bfoosh006]

Added the additional 52 rd data to this link for 9x19 velocities out of 16" Carbine.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...fferent-9x19-oem-rounds-chronographed.820445/

 

[peacebutready]

@bfoosh006: Thanks.

 

[Stormin.40]

Corn-Picker had a good point, he mentioned the 357sig and 10mm as using the same bullets as their little brothers 9mm and 40 S&W. I am only familiar with the 40 S&W but was always under the impression that the bullets I purchase for my 40 S&W are the same bullets others are using in 10mm. Below I have posted some old chrony data that I did years ago. The velocity gain is nice out of the carbine, ~250fps, but really only brings the 40 S&W up to 10mm velocities, which I would expect to be within the design parameters of defensive bullets.

Using Hodgdon Longshot and 165gr Rainer Plated FP bullet, OAL 1.125, I got the following results, temp was about 90*F.

Charge Avg. ES Std Dev. Firearm

7.1gr 1013 24.8 10.8 PX4, Pistol 4" Barrel
7.1gr 1299 70.8 29.6 CX4, Carbine 16.6" Barrel

7.3gr 1038 34.4 17.5 PX4, Pistol 4" Barrel
7.3gr 1313 51.7 20.8 CX4, Carbine 16.6" Barrel

7.5gr 1070 28.1 13.2 PX4, Pistol 4" Barrel
7.5gr 1332 55.1 23.5 CX4, Carbine 16.6" Barrel

7.7gr 1089 29.9 12.6 PX4, Pistol 4" Barrel
7.7gr 1340 72.8 30.6 CX4, Carbine 16.6" Barrel