So you build your Excalibur...do you carry it?

[Grayrider]

Gang,

I am sure some of you have been down this road, and opinions are welcomed. I have thought for years about having a pistol built that would be my idea of the perfect carry gun. For me that would be a 1911 in my favorite caliber, preferred controls, finish, perfectly tuned, wearing Hakan's finest. Now I am not after opinions as to my choice, but rather the notion of carrying such a fine work. I have been more utilitarian in my carry items--nothing flashy, just functional. I hate to admit lately that has been a ..... Glock. I have also thought about the possibility of having to give up the pistol as evidence should it ever (God forbid) be used in self defense. Still, perhaps if one has to defend oneself it should be with the best firearm available to suit my purposes.

So what do you think? If I build my Excalibur, should I carry it? If not, I probably won't build. I have a safe full of pretty things already.



GR

 

[Old Fuff]

>> Still, perhaps if one has to defend oneself it should be with the best firearm available to suit my purposes. <<

I would sure hope so. But "the best" for this purpose does not have to be fancy or expensive - just reliable. Cosmetics won't help you under the circumstances you described and although it's unlikely, in a criminal or civil action following the shooting your pet custom-built pistol may be seen by a jury as an indicator that you were looking for someone to try it out on.

Given the way they are made today, it is getting hard to find a reliable 1911 style pistol. Older guns didn't have any problem meeting this requirement but times have changed. You can "make" a current gun better by having it rebuilt, but this is expensive to say the least.

If you follow the threads posted by 1911Tuner you will discover that this can be done (make a current 1911 into a reliable pistol without going overboard), but there are darn few people that can do what he does. Too many of today's pistolsmiths (?) are more into bling then basics.

Your Glock is I think, doing everything you need. I would keep it, and carry it, and then go ahead and build your dream gun with everything you want - the way you want it. But if it were mine it wouldn't likely be what I carried on a day-by-day basis.

 

[Grayrider]

I sure understand what you are saying about reliable 1911s. That issue had crossed my mind as well. I might build something neat, but will it run 100% like my ..... it pains me to admit it.... Glock. Food for thought, and your voice of experience is much appreciated!

GR

 

[El Tejon]

Sure, go ahead, just have copies available for replacement.

Fungibility, another strong point for Glock.

 

[Brian Williams]

Yep, it is a S&W 65 round grip with a 4" pencil barrel that would have been on a 64. I had it moonclipped and lightly tweaked at Pinnacle High Performance.

 

[Wakal]

Classy! That 65 just exudes...style...

I followed that thought process a few years ago. My own ideal carry gun was a STI Commander, flat top, low-mounted MMC/Novak type Tritium bar rear sight, Wilson Tritium dot front sight, ramped Nowlin bushing barrel, stainless guide rod, Aftec, STI hammer and titanium strut, Dawson's favorite lockwork, trimmed ambi Ed Brown safeties, and a Ed Brown memory groove high/arched beavertail...chambered in 9 by 23 Supercomp. In a matte hard chrome, of course.

I had won most of the parts, but something similar would be over $2,200.

And I carry the darn thing every day. It is exactly what I wanted in a carry gun; anything else is just...inferior...

If you build it, you will carry it




Alex

 

[Grayrider]

Sounds much like what I had in mind, but in 10mm. I will make note of your components for future reference....



GR

 

[Black Snowman]

Even though my carry opportunities are limited a bit at the moment I've spent some time and used it as an excuse to buy several guns that I have enjoyed considerably. In searching for that "perfect" gun I've had some great concepts that in execution I've found lacking. My S&W 646 has not been sufficiently reliable. My Taurus 455 Ti is too light for me to shoot accurately. My CZ 85 Compact has been very good, but is a bit thick and heavy. My CZ RAMI so far has been the best so far "in the real world".

I'm hoping to correct the reliability issues and upgrade the firepower of my 646 with a stainless cylinder chambered in 10mm. I haven't actually done it yet, however. I'm still worried about it's intricate workings that keep getting hung up with powder fouling and ruining it's DA trigger pull at inopportune times. So, that hurts my trust in the weapon. Never good.

If I can learn to shoot the Taurus better, it might be good compromise since there's nothing technically wrong with it. It's just that a 21 oz gun with a 4" barrel isn't exactly the epitome of stable.

I shoot the 85 Compact extremely well, my CZ 97B too. They've both been dead-on reliable as well but weight about 2.5 lbs. I do better with my RAMI than the Taurus, it has 4 more rounds on tap and it's smaller and only a bit heavier. Like I said, in the real world the RAMI just keeps winning for me.

 

[Sean Smith]

have also thought about the possibility of having to give up the pistol as evidence should it ever (God forbid) be used in self defense.

My life is worth more than a gun, even a $3000 gun. I want the best weapon I can use if I need to use it.

 

[Smoke]

Excalibur was not made to put on a shelf, but to use to defeat thine enemies.

Smoke

 

[Grayrider]

Good points both of you. I continue to be torn. An LEO friend was just making a counter argument. Essentially the "Glock is good enough" point. What was it the Russians say..."the best is the enemy of the good enough." Still, it would be nice to have MY idea of best.

GR

 

[sharpie613]

The Glock is a machete in that it is brutal and always gets the job done, even if it ddoes it with a bare minimum of aesthetic consideration.

I say do it. I'd keep the engraving and colored race gun parts to a minimum, though that's just my own prejuduces talking.

 

[Maddock]

I’ve had a few handguns extensively worked on specifically for carry. I go along with Sean Smith; the problem of having the gun mistreated in an evidence locker will be minor compared to Problem One - surviving the confrontation or Problem Two – the legal ramifications of a self-defense shooting. If I believe that the left hand gain twist and the special hammer fluting is an advantage, why would I want to try to save my life with second best? So that it will be preserved for my heirs?
And another thing – what’s wrong with carrying spiffy accouterments? Do Rolex owners keep their watches in the safe and wear a Timex? Are there a lot of custom boots in the closet to avoid wear while their owners are shod by K-Mart?

 

[Old Fuff]

I think we are discussing tools vs. showpieces ...

Out here in the Southwest there is an old saying that goes, "beware of the man with a well-worn gun because he probably knows how to use it."

Now if I chose to, I could spend $3,000.00 for a personal weapon (and be in hock up to my ears for awhile) but I don't know that it would be more effective then an old but completely functional beater. To meet its intended purpose the weapon must be as reliable as possible, place its bullets to the owner's point of aim, and do this quickly and if necessary do it repeatedly. Beyond this any additions comprise showing off. I think if one was smart they'd pay less for a pistol and spend the savings to buy ammunition to practice with.

In my lifetime I have known a small number of experienced gunfighters. I say "experienced" because they had, and one time or another, been involved in an exchange of lead with another party. They were all good shots, and several were very fast shots (Bill Jordan comes to mind) but none of them carried the kind of guns that are being discussed here. Now Bill did do some minor work on his revolvers, and rounded the corners of the adjustable sights on his Smith & Wesson's if they had them. Sometimes he slimmed the front of the trigger guard to make it easier the get his finger on the trigger (This man was BIG and had hands to match). All of the ones I got to examine had stocks made to his own preferred design. But at this point the story ends because he didn't do much more, and the "modifications" weren't particularly expensive. His guns were not abused in any way, but much of the blue was worn off at points where they rubbed in a holster.

As I look back, I think that if I had gotten crosswise with him a $3,000.00 outfit wouldn't have done me much good because given his speed and accuracy the fight would have been over before I got started.

Hopefully no one here will ever experience what they did, but if it happens who made the grips or accessories, or who's brand of magazine you use, or how much and where the 30-line checkering is probably won't determine the outcome. What will is the skill that you have, or don't as the case may be.

The best tool in not necessarily the most expensive showpiece ...

 

[Standing Wolf]

I wouldn't drive an ugly car, so why should I carry an ugly gun?

 

[Feanaro]

Excaliburs are made for thacking evil on the arse, not rusting in a safe. If you have to build an "ultimate" to fit you exactly the way you like it, wouldn't that be the gun to carry? (I assume of course that you like reliable and accurate guns)

 

[simonp]

Build it & carry it I have 2 1911's built for carry one by Chuck Rogers and one by Yost - Bonitz, neither are flashy or full house guns, both are dead reliable, accurate 1911s. I asked for carry guns and that is what they gave me. As soon as I escape the PRK one of them will be on my hip at all times. What is the fun in a safe queen? and there isnt a gun out there that I'd stake my life on out of the box, even my 1967 Colt Python went to Teddy Jacobsen for a carry package and once over to make sure everything was perfect and ready for SD use. Guess I just dont like to gamble much

 

[mbs357]

Putting hundreds of dollars into a pistol after it's purchase only to have it as a carry piece seems like a bad idea to me.
If you do end up shooting someone, it will be taken as evidence...and from what I've heard up here, they don't treat evidence very nicely.

 

[lycanthrope]

I didn't build this to be "pimpin". It's light due to the aluminum frame and I prefer the aluminum stainless combo for durability. If I sweat on it, get soaked or get a bit to much oil I don't worry too much.

 

[Zundfolge]

My life is worth more than a gun, even a $3000 gun

False dilemma.

There are plenty of guns way under $3000 that will do just as good a job.


I started out with the idea that a 1 off custom job finely tuned to the task of CCW would be perfect ... but I am not rich, so if I did carry such a weaon and I had to use it, how could I afford to replace it? What happens if I get in a self defense shooting and the po-po collect my $3000 uberpistol and the guy I shot's friends decide to come after me?

I've developed the opinion that while I've got plenty of room in the safe for a $3000 uberpistol, I have to look at my daily carry piece as a simple tool and as such I want a good "off the shelf" pistol ... something I can live with if its "taken as evidence", something I can replace easily and something I won't care if it gets scratches, holster wear and lint on.

 

[SNoB]

I wouldn't drive an ugly car, so why should I carry an ugly gun?

Do you show your CCW to everyone on the street? Mabey at bars to try and pick up women? Everyone that you drive by on the street sees your car, NOBODY should be seeing your CCW.

 

[Grayrider]

I am with Olf Fluff on this one. My thought has been to build something perfect in terms of accuracy and reliability, not so much looks. Controls where I like them for ease of use, sights I pick up well, etc. All functional parts perfectly suited to my taste. Having said that, I am thinking I might be just as well served to look at what is currently out there I could buy and just have tweaked a bit. In the end that might save money I could spend better on lots of ammo, and practice, practice, practice....

GR

 

[Old Fuff]

One last comment:

If you are thinking about a 10mm Auto, I wouldn't get something built on a 1911 platform.

This is not intended to start a flame war - I regard the cartridge highly. But the slide/barrel dwell time in a 1911 is determined by the barrel link, and cannot be changed. So the alternative seems to be overspringing the pistol, which in itself can cause reliability or wear issues.

Other pistols - the Glock and S&W come to mine - use a cam, not a link, and these can be changed to work with various cartridges.

When Browning and Colt created the 1911 they did so around the .45 cartridge, with absolutely no thought of any other ammunition. Of course both Colt and others have "adapted" the pistol to use different rounds, but to some degree these require compromises.

When dealing with a defensive weapon, compromises should be held to the absolute minimum, and "no compromises" is usually the best policy.

 

[Grayrider]

Old Fluff,

I am pretty much set on playing with something in a Commanderish 45. In addition to being easier to make run 100%, it will make for cheaper practice than the 10mm. I am always going back and forth between those two rounds anyway as to which is my true love.



GR

 

[carpettbaggerr]

I wouldn't drive an ugly car

I'd rather have a rusty beater that starts every time I turn the key, instead of a spotless Jag which has to go into the shop once a month.

And with the winters around here, it's a real waste to have a pretty car on the road.