"Soft" Federal primers and bulk storage of loaded ammo?

[pcwirepro]

So I keep reading about Federal primers being soft and prone to crushing/detonating when used on progressive presses. I load on a LNL and haven't experienced any of these issues but I'm curious about my ammo cans full of loaded 38 special rounds. I also have some smaller boxes (plastic Berry's bullet boxes) that I have 50-100 in for plinking. Not the flip lid storage type boxes but the box you get when you buy their plated bullets. http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14638-c38-g8-b0-p0-409_U.aspx

Should I be worried about these "soft" primers bouncing around in my bulk, loaded ammo?

 

[ny32182]

I've never used them, but any primer unsafe in that condition would be completely unmanageable... I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[rcmodel]

No.

rc

 

[ranger335v]

""Soft" Federal primers..."

No.

Like a lot of other "wisdom" on the net, it's total B.S. spread in an attempt to appear knowledgeable. Federal does use a slightly more sensitive compound to reduce "failure to fire" incidents and that's not a bad thing.

 

[pcwirepro]

Federal does use a slightly more sensitive compound to reduce "failure to fire" incidents and that's not a bad thing.

So the cups are no softer than CCI or Rem?

 

[ReloaderFred]

Not enough for you to worry about. Federal has been around a long, long time, since 1922. If their primers were a problem, they wouldn't still be in business, and ATK would never have purchased them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[1SOW]

I have a 9mm tuned for light ammo. Win Primers gave me maybe 3 FTF's /100, and CCI maybe a few more.

I went to Federal SPPs and have 100% reliability.

"The "dent" in the Fed primer looks IDENTICAL to the dent in the others that wouldn't fire. They also seat with the same force required with a Win primer.

AS was said by Ranger335v: I read a piece about Federal using an older and more volatile primer mix, and less impact on the 'anvil' will set it off..

PS: I have accidently seated Federals sideways several times and even upside down once and they didn't ignite (Lee Turret Press).

 

[pcwirepro]

I have accidently seated Federals sideways several times and even upside down once and they didn't ignite

Well that says it all. Thanks for the input.

 

[MrOldLude]

No.

This is an example of reloading characteristic blown way out of proportion.

 

[Slamfire]

Yes, its all a stupid, stupid, stupid lie. Federal primers, the most sensitive primers on the planet, they never go bang in a priming device.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=516259&highlight=federal+primers+LNL

Don't be stupid & light off your primer tube. A public service announcement.
________________________________________
So I had my first "That was dumb. Yep, I still have 10 fingers." moment while reloading some 9mm last night. I was sitting at my Hornady LnL progressive press, which seems to have a problem with Federal small primers hanging up when the cam tries to slide them forward. On most days it's only been a minor annoyance, however last night for some reason every single one was sticking in there. I started down the wrong decision path by getting annoyed.

After 5 teardowns to clear the jam, on the 6th one I stupidly decided to just rack on the cam a few times to clear it out. The smart thing to do WOULD have been to stop, tear it all down, and leave it alone until I could chamfer the bottom of the hole where the edge of the primers were hanging up. I must have left my thinking cap at work.

So, what did the stuck primer say to his 94 friends sitting on top of him in the primer tube? BANG!!! The protective blast shield steel tube that surrounds the aluminum primer tube acted like a barrel and shot the ruptured aluminum tube an inch into my ceiling! (see photo) Primers are no joke, folks, the entire full tube lit off insantaneously just like a gun shot.

Be safe, guys, and don't let the combination of testosterone & malfunctioning machinery get the best of you. I take full responsibility for the ID10T error here, it could have easily caused an injury much greater than my pride & a ringing in my ear. I'm pretty embarrased about it but maybe my story will save someone else some pain.

In so far as loaded ammunition, I think primers are better protected than they are in a Lee Loader or in the tube of a progressive.

But still, why is it considered dangerous to load pointed bullets for use in lever actions but safe to sling loaded ammunition all over the place?

Seems like a contradiction.

 

[rcmodel]

I think this whole thing started years ago from some statements by Richard Lee in his "Modern Reloading" book.

He stated "Never use a primer feeder that feeds from a tube".
Maybe because his company didn't make any tools like that?

He stated "Do Not Use Federal primers in a LEE AUTO-PRIME".
Maybe because of a design defect in the Auto-Prime?

He further stated "This is not to imply they (Federal primers) are inferior, they simply are dangerous when used in tray fed tools".

It is worth noting that RCBS, Hornady, and every other company that made priming tools never had any cautions about not using Federal primers.

Odd that only Mr. Lee was able to identify any problem with tube feed systems, or Federal primers!

I have since read that he & Federal were having some sort of long running dispute over something at the time the book was written.

rc

 

[ReloaderFred]

When I was rangemaster for our department back in the late 1970's, one of my duties was to load all the .38 Special practice ammunition, which was about 60,000 rounds per year. We owned a motor driven machine called the Ammo Load, which is still in production today, but has had many differents owners of the company.

I blew up the primer column on that Ammo Load machine twice. Once was with a full column of primers and once with just a few. We used Winchester primers in our loads, but the fault wasn't in the primers. The fault lies in the method of moving the primers from the column to the primer seating station, which is done with a simple slide. Many progressive presses use this same method today, but the Ammo Load is motor driven, so there isn't any "feel" with it.

When a slide moves back and forth continually, there is going to be some priming residue left behind, since the primers are handled pretty roughly using this method. There is friction from the slide parts, along with the mechanical movement of the slide. If a primer gets caught between the primer tube and the hole in the slide, and the slide moves, this can cause a detonation. The priming residue, in contact with the moving parts of the slide, can also be detonated from the friction.

Any brand of primer can be caused to detonate at the improper time, under the right (wrong) circumstances. With due care and diligence, all current primers are safe to handle and store under normal circumstances. It's when they're subjected to abnormal circumstances that problems surface. A good example is the bottom half of a .38 Special round I have in my collection. It was a round that fell from the top shelf in my garage and detonated when it hit something sharp on the floor. The case tore in half and I never found the top half or bullet, but the primer is still in place, with a shallow line across it's face. That was a CCI primer, by the way.

If care is taken, and primers are used as intended, there isn't a problem with them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[ranger335v]

"I have since read that he & Federal were having some sort of long running dispute over something..."

Sorta. As I remember it, someone sued Federal for something stupid they did, Federal's lawyers worked to shift blame to the Lee priming tool. Don't know how it turned out, normal vows of silence in silly lawsuits, but it cost Lee some money.

Not surprising Lee then cautioned his users not to use Fed caps. But I'm not foolish, and I know poor primer handleing is an invitation to injury, so I'm careful with 'em. Lee's caution never slowed down my use of Fed primers in my AutoPrimes and I've never had any reason to fear them. (Other's milage may vary! )

 

[Woodshark]

They aren't soft, they are more sensitive.
Meaning that light hits will still cause ignition. S&W revolvers with trigger jobs by amateurs sometimes will have the tension screw on the mainspring backed off to lighten the trigger pull. The consequence of this is a lighter hammer strike, which may cause failure to fire.

 

[orionengnr]

SlamFire--
Thank you for sharing. That was sobering.

 

[fecmech]

A good friend of mine was a commercial reloader who literally loaded millions of rounds for numerous local and Federal agencies including the US Postal Service. He had 5 Ammo Load machines running constantly and he loaded nothing but Federal Primers. I'm sure if there was a problem with Federal primers he would have used something else.

 

[pcwirepro]

Wow! That primer tube stuck in the ceiling looks like good fun. I may keep a spare pair of undershorts in the garage in case that ever happens. I don't see any real world experience with bulk ammo here so I'll quit worrying about it.

As for the Lee Modern Reloading Manual, (I read the 2nd edition) it all seemed a little one-sided to me. I'm sure Mr. Lee deserves a great deal of respect but he spent a way too much time tooting his own horn in that book. IMHO.

 

[ranger335v]

In all fairness to Dick Lee as opposed to other companies, he designed his tools himself and built his company from the gound up by himself. It's not surprizing or improper that he feels a bit more strongly about his products than the hirelings that write for other reloading manual makers. And, point of fact, his tools ARE as good as he says.