Cards81fan
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I guess I wasn't exactly clear - my main concern is sight acquisition. It's muzzle flip I'm looking to mitigate. I have no real pain when shooting larger calibers; it's more a control issue.
Softest shooting semi-auto in a Significant Caliber?
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BCRider
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Muzzle flip is an issue with any center fire handgun. The way around it is to work at aiming your first shot and then using a double tap. When you get it right, and assuming you're working with a good consistent grip, muscle memory and tension will tend to bring the muzzle back down quite close to the first shot's point of aim. The key is learning the right timing to fire the second shot so you give the right time for the springiness of your muscles to return the gun to the right spot. I also think you'll find it works best with the square on body isoscoles stance so the arm positioning is symetrical and using the modern two thumbs forward IPSC style grip.
IPSC and IDPA shooters pick up on this quite well. I've only tried it myself in practice on a semi regular basis but I did use it on the really up close and personal targets in the one IPSC match I've shot in so far with excellent results. Double alphas in both cases but they were only about 8 feet away.
For moderate ranges out to around 10 yards and with a bit of work on the timing you'll be surprised at how easy it is to put a string of shots into a dinner plate sized group once you get the timing right. And going slower isn't the best way because your muscles tend to quake and shudder around after the initial drop back of the muzzle. You want to time it so that you trigger off the second shot as the muzzle is dropping back from the initial rise.
Check out YouTube for "double tap shooting" to see some examples.
IPSC and IDPA shooters pick up on this quite well. I've only tried it myself in practice on a semi regular basis but I did use it on the really up close and personal targets in the one IPSC match I've shot in so far with excellent results. Double alphas in both cases but they were only about 8 feet away.
For moderate ranges out to around 10 yards and with a bit of work on the timing you'll be surprised at how easy it is to put a string of shots into a dinner plate sized group once you get the timing right. And going slower isn't the best way because your muscles tend to quake and shudder around after the initial drop back of the muzzle. You want to time it so that you trigger off the second shot as the muzzle is dropping back from the initial rise.
Check out YouTube for "double tap shooting" to see some examples.
I'm with spyderdude - G19 would be an excellent choice.
I realize you said you were looking for a pistol you could easily conceal, but I have to mention the SigSauer P226. I got one in 1994, and I hope things haven't changed much with them. It is so silky smooth...it gives me impure thoughts when I fire it.
AKElroy
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Sounds like you are interested in an all-steel 9mm, they are by far the softest shooting options. I prefer CZ to the Browning. As a recent convert, I am BLOWN AWAY by how little my 9mm CZ 85 kicks; It is also stone cold ragged hole accurate @ 15 paces, shooting exactly to POA. I am 6'1'' 245lbs, so I can carry a relatively heavy gun like this fine in an IWB holster under an untucked shirt. It is slim, fast handling, and a dream to shoot. Just be sure to hang it from a stiff, well made belt.
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Lonestar49
Member
...
I would agree, a Sig P 226 or P229 in 9mm are 2 great choices, along with, Beretta's Px4 9mm with rotating barrel..
Very, predictable, soft shooters for accuracy with the first aimed shot and quick, accurate, continued, point and shoot *follow-up shots..
Having both P229 in 9mm and 40cal, along with, a Beretta Px4 in 40, they are all very ccw friendly, along with, all being soft, balanced, shooters, IMO, *with correct grip applied" along with one hand shooting accuracy without fear of jamming with unsupported 2-hand grip or one, or weak, hand shots.
Between all 3 makes/models mentioned, I have over 2yrs, 16K flawless rounds, with an exception of a bad or weak cartridge, every now and then, from new, "good", FMJ ammo, used in all 3 guns mentioned.
Many good choices out there, size wise, round count wise, and best IF you can actually rent and shoot as many as possible as you narrow down your field of choice, both in gun and caliber.
Luck,
Ls
I would agree, a Sig P 226 or P229 in 9mm are 2 great choices, along with, Beretta's Px4 9mm with rotating barrel..
Very, predictable, soft shooters for accuracy with the first aimed shot and quick, accurate, continued, point and shoot *follow-up shots..
Having both P229 in 9mm and 40cal, along with, a Beretta Px4 in 40, they are all very ccw friendly, along with, all being soft, balanced, shooters, IMO, *with correct grip applied" along with one hand shooting accuracy without fear of jamming with unsupported 2-hand grip or one, or weak, hand shots.
Between all 3 makes/models mentioned, I have over 2yrs, 16K flawless rounds, with an exception of a bad or weak cartridge, every now and then, from new, "good", FMJ ammo, used in all 3 guns mentioned.
Many good choices out there, size wise, round count wise, and best IF you can actually rent and shoot as many as possible as you narrow down your field of choice, both in gun and caliber.
Luck,
Ls
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The old S&W 659 with the stainless frame has about the lowest felt recoil I can think of. This is because it has a steel frame and is heavier. I carried it concealed daily at work daily for about 5 years when it was the issued handgun.
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ScareyH22A
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HK USP9 FS
HK USP45 FS
Recoil? What recoil?
HK USP45 FS
Recoil? What recoil?
jimk66
Member
380 acp, 9mm, 40cal or 45acp ???????
My first recommendation is either the 9mm HK P7 or P7M8 which have so many +++'s going for them I won't take the time to list them all. But let me say they are unbelievable pistols. Second suggestion is the Springfield Armory 9mm EMP which is truly a micro 1911.
Hope this helps,
JimK
My first recommendation is either the 9mm HK P7 or P7M8 which have so many +++'s going for them I won't take the time to list them all. But let me say they are unbelievable pistols. Second suggestion is the Springfield Armory 9mm EMP which is truly a micro 1911.
Hope this helps,
JimK
searcher451
Member
Both the Walther P99 and the P99C are a pleasure to shoot in 9mm, IMO. You can run a lot of rounds through them in a single range sitting and still have plenty of hand and arm left over for a bit of go with the .40 S&W Walthers as well.
DHart
Member
Firing hot forty in this gun feels like firing 9mm from a full size 1911... unbelievably soft and comfy... this gun absorbs the snappy 40 like a full size Cadillac Escalade absorbs the bumps on the road. Sweet! And very fast return to target. The outfront weight is your friend. The wide grip in your palm is your friend. The high hold/low bore axis is your friend. Gotta love the Edge with 18 rounds of hot forty on tap.
sokygunner
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Quote of a quote:
Quote:
…… My friend has an HK USP .45 (full size not compact) and it is probably equal in the recoil department to the 21.
No actually it’s not. I’ve fired both extensively. The USP is a much more uncomfortable pistol for my older hands to have to hang onto and manipulate. After, about, 50 rounds the USP’s narrow backstrap really starts digging into the web of my gun hand. A G-21 will allow me to go for 150-200 rounds before I, even, start to feel it.
I don't know how old you are, but if a person's hand hurts after 50 rounds from an HK USP .45 or after 200 rounds of a Glock 21, then you probably need to start doing some hand strengthening exercises (or go to a lower caliber weapon). Neither of these two firearms with any type of load should hurt a person's hand.
Quote:
…… My friend has an HK USP .45 (full size not compact) and it is probably equal in the recoil department to the 21.
No actually it’s not. I’ve fired both extensively. The USP is a much more uncomfortable pistol for my older hands to have to hang onto and manipulate. After, about, 50 rounds the USP’s narrow backstrap really starts digging into the web of my gun hand. A G-21 will allow me to go for 150-200 rounds before I, even, start to feel it.
I don't know how old you are, but if a person's hand hurts after 50 rounds from an HK USP .45 or after 200 rounds of a Glock 21, then you probably need to start doing some hand strengthening exercises (or go to a lower caliber weapon). Neither of these two firearms with any type of load should hurt a person's hand.
Cards81fan
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Just to update everyone, I'm going in on a group buy for a turn-in Beretta 92fs. Seems the smaller 9mm round along with the larger all-steel frame and slide add up to a very comfortable shooter.
Might be a bit large for carry, but will work great for range shooting and car carry. I'll get something else for on my person.
Might be a bit large for carry, but will work great for range shooting and car carry. I'll get something else for on my person.
HiVelSword
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The softest shooting .45 ACP was either my HK USP or my old AMT Longslide with steel Para Ordnance frame (1st gen)
The softest shooting 9mm was my old Springfield Armory 1911. Anyone who has never shot a 9mm 1911 needs to do so. They're a hoot! So much fun.
Oh, a .44 mag Desert Eagle feels like shooting a 1911 in .45 ACP.
The softest shooting 9mm was my old Springfield Armory 1911. Anyone who has never shot a 9mm 1911 needs to do so. They're a hoot! So much fun.
Oh, a .44 mag Desert Eagle feels like shooting a 1911 in .45 ACP.
HiVelSword
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"I don't know how old you are, but if a person's hand hurts after 50 rounds from an HK USP .45 or after 200 rounds of a Glock 21, then you probably need to start doing some hand strengthening exercises (or go to a lower caliber weapon). Neither of these two firearms with any type of load should hurt a person's hand."
Agreed. Shooting ball out of a USP .45 feels like standard pressure 9mm. It's a joke how little it recoils.
Agreed. Shooting ball out of a USP .45 feels like standard pressure 9mm. It's a joke how little it recoils.
c919
Member
SIG p226 9mm. Period.
When it comes to having great accuracy, amazing dependability, low recoil, and just plain awesome..... SIG p226 9mm.
When it comes to having great accuracy, amazing dependability, low recoil, and just plain awesome..... SIG p226 9mm.
1SOW
Member
BCRider: FWIW, I disagree about double taps.
On the same u-tube, find a qualified instructor or a known strong competitive shooter (grand master) and they all will teach; "You can learn to see the sight on the second shot of a very fast double tap and KNOW where it hit. You can reliably call your shot."
This takes practice; but it works, especially moving through several targets at various distances .
The OP wants to reduce flip and be able to follow this same general guideline for faster target acquisition.
On the same u-tube, find a qualified instructor or a known strong competitive shooter (grand master) and they all will teach; "You can learn to see the sight on the second shot of a very fast double tap and KNOW where it hit. You can reliably call your shot."
This takes practice; but it works, especially moving through several targets at various distances .
The OP wants to reduce flip and be able to follow this same general guideline for faster target acquisition.
Recoil is a function of caliber and weight of the gun. A heavier gun will have less recoil energy for a given caliber. If you want a soft shooter, look for a full sized steel frame auto.
You can get comparative recoil using my calculator here: http://guntech.com/ke.html
Note, there's not a lot of granularity with this app. It only outputs in 1 Joule increments.
You can get comparative recoil using my calculator here: http://guntech.com/ke.html
Note, there's not a lot of granularity with this app. It only outputs in 1 Joule increments.
gga357
Member
S&W M&P is very soft shooting. 9mm or 40sw.
mljdeckard
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A steel 1911. Faster rounds have snappier recoil. Heavier guns soak up more recoil.
Seven For Sure
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Kahr T9
Hokkmike
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I've never owned or shot anything in 9mm that had excessive recoil, although the little Kahr PM9 does have some bite to it.
I have actually shot .380's that are worse than the 9. Their simple design transfers more of the force I guess.
I have actually shot .380's that are worse than the 9. Their simple design transfers more of the force I guess.
JMusic
member
I've shot 40's a lot out of a 27. I noticed it was hard for a few of my friends. Most people shoot 9mm much better and I think they are just as effective using the right ammo. Forties have a sharp kick to them. A compromise between the 9 and 45. I think its a good cartridge but I don't care for them. If you want to go more than 9 mm get a 45.
JIm
JIm
Seven For Sure
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It takes time to shoot well in any caliber. Time + ammo = money where I come from. I would'nt advise anyone to pick 9mm or 45ACP or nothing. Many people can shoot .40 well and there are those that swear 357sig recoils less and is more accurate than .40. If you don't mind carrying a larger, heavier gun, get a larger all steel gun. If you need something smaller and lighter, go 9mm for sure. You may be surprised that you can learn to shoot a smaller, lighter and more powerful gun with more trigger time. I'm not getting into a caliber war here, I shoot and carry them all. There are steel plugs that you can put in the backstrap of Glocks to make them a few ounces heavier which would make a difference IMO but I've never tried one. It would definately even out the weight before and after shooting a full mag. Good luck on your search for the perfect handgun, my search will probably never end.
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