Some C&P and BP questions

[ahil925]

Some C&B and BP questions

Hello all,
Just recently ordered a Pietta 1851 "Confederate" .44 from Cabela's and have been reading up on loads and care for the pistol. This is my first BP firearm and I have a few questions that I haven't come across answers for.

First, how much velocity is lost between an 8" barrel and a 5" barrel? Since the 1851 I ordered is a brass frame I understand that I'll need to load a bit lightly to keep it in good working order. However, am I making good use of the ~8" barrel then? Am I gaining any appreciable MV by going with the 8" over the 5" with the reduced loads?

Second, after doing a fair amount of reading about the pistols of the CSA, are there any modern manufacturers of Kerr Pattent revolvers or Beumont-Adams? I know that there are occasional Starr and LeMat production runs, but I've yet to find and Kerrs or Adams.

Has anyone handled and shot a Kerrs or B-A? How was it?


Thanks for your time.

 

[Skinny 1950]

Your rebel or Yank or whatever will have a 7 1/2 inch barrel, the brass frame will take 25 grains of black powder all day long.
I may be wrong.
It has happened before.

 

[Crawdad1]

I haven't seen many studies that compare the shorter to longer barrels in revolvers. I would like to see that research myself. I just like the longer barrel because of the sights and my eyesight. But concerning the brass frame, no one can tell you how long it will last, some hold up some don't. If its for occasional use a brass frame is fine but the only definitive statement that can be made concerning the frames is a steel framed revolver will hold up. So if you're going to shoot a lot then buy the steel.

 

[Ed Ames]

The only way to know for sure would be with a hack saw and a chronograph. However...

You are probably looking at about a 50-75 fps difference between 5" and 8". In other words, about 10% or a bit less velocity difference.

Personally I prefer shorter barrels to a point because they are handier, but longer barrels will give a longer sight radius which is a good thing.

 

[Dframe]

I'm in total agreement with ed ames. Most of the brassers I've used held up quite well if not abused. I used a Remmy brasser for years in competition at my muzzle loader club. I shot a mild load (which was more accurate anyway) and shot that gun for years. I have no idea whatever as to what the velocity losses (if any) would be with a reduction in barrel length.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Agree with Ed Ames.

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

lost velocity

Generally speaking it won't really matter a whole lot, depending on what you are going to use the revolver for.
Could be as little as 50fps, but could be as much as 200fps. again a chronograph would be best.

I think 25 gr may be a little heavy as a standard load for a brasser.
15 to 20 would be my preferred.

If just shooting paper and cans, you would be fine. Even rabbits and squirrels
if your aim is good enough (mines not any more).

Larger game? You'd probably want to consider the 8" barrel (mostly accuracy)
a steel frame and preferably (M.O.) Remington style with a hotter load.
for porcupines, skunk, perhaps coyotes. In that size range.
A Dragoon or Walker would be even better, depending on the game you would consider shooting with a BP revolver.

 

[ahil925]

Thanks for the responses guys. Now on to my other question, has anyone gotten to shoot or atleast handle a Kerr patent revolver personally? Or a Beaumont-Adams for that matter?

 

[grter]

If I remember correctly the difference between the two is not much with regular round balls but when you start using heavier bullets (connicals) the difference starts to get noticable.

I am not a fan of brass frame revolvers and I have seen at least one crack (top strap type frame) at the bottom where the loading lever plunger is (the weakest point.)

I would say a brass frame looks really pretty when polished but for a shooter I would only use it as a temporary stop gap until you can save up and get a steel frame that will be safe to use with full cylinder loads.

I would also keep away from hotter powders like triple 7 (I would go easy with this stuff even on steel frame Italian imports since it causes lots of wear and tear) when using a brass frame unless you don't mind using a lot of corn meal or some filler to make up for a charge too small for your ball to seat on the powder alone. Of course a battle tank tough Ruger Old Army will put all of your triple seven pressure concerns to rest.

I do not use "mild accurate" loads because I find them to be dull and boring.

The cap and balls revolvers I am familiar with are not top tuned match target models (in fact I don't know of any match quality c&p revolvers manufactured that are brass, I could be wrong) and they probably are more accurate than I am with full power loads.

If you check out this link these tests have already been done using a 7 1/2 inch barrel Ruger Old Army and a 5 1/2 in barrel Ruger Old Army.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WNYGs2_UZw

Following Mike Beliveau's (dualist1954) links in this series will take you to charts that list the various muzzle velocities and energies with the different charges, projectiles, and barrels as well as general accuracy.

 

[rodwha]

Swiss and Goex Olde eynsford are also higher energy powders. I have no idea how pressures relate, but velocities are very similar with Swiss and Olde E usually being slightly higher than T7 comparing volume for volume of powder.

 

[Jim K]

It won't be much help and I don't know if it would apply to black powder, but an old rule of thumb was about 40 fps per inch of barrel. Actual figures show 25-50, with a specific load. That is about the variation that will be found among cartridges in the same factory box, but obviously that doesn't apply to percussion guns.

Jim

 

[kBob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Cgt2ah41A

Best I have found about the Kerr. Do look at this guy's other stuff.

-kBob

 

[Packman]

I can't speak to the questions you ask, but I have a 5" 1851 brass frame and an 8" 1858 steel frame. I shoot the 1858 95% of the time I go to the range. The main reason is that it's a lot easier to load the cylinder with the longer loading lever. I have to use a piece of pvc pipe to help out with the shorter barrel, otherwise I usually cut my hand up due to the force needed from the lack of leverage.

I also only have to clean one gun this way. I bought the 1851 first and upgraded to the 1858 a year later.

 

[grter]

If you want to throw heavy connicals down range with a good stiff charge I would get the longer barrel with a steel frame for more velocity, power, a longer sight radius, less noise, and less recoil (ok maybe a little less noise and recoil it is black powder.)