Some Felonies are more like Civil Torts

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BigFatKen

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Some of the recent polls are almost like ambush interviews. I think the poll of "who should own guns" and "should Felons own guns?" should have a few days of disscussion first, before it is "put to a vote" so to speak. The wordings of the poll questions can be worked out first. If the Brady bunch, looked at the "who should own a gun"?, they would have seen the question answer:

None, minus the military. Since none is = zero and substracting the number the military buys each year will leave a total of a minus number, the Bradys would conclude we are for some gun removal each year. Now, this is NOT what the author meant, but it is what he wrote. This could be debated before the poll. Any typos could be corrected.

Here are some quotes from the recent poll of "should Felons own guns? I will put forth the question: Do you really mean "possess guns"? Currently, if terrorists are attacking a city, a Felon cannot pick up a gun from a fallen gun owner and help the people defend themselves. He would not own the gun, but he would possess it, another Felony. In a more likely situation, if a store owner is shot, can a Felon pick up his gun to defend the dead store owner's little girl who then wanders into the store.

Is that what the poll meant or are some circumstances ok.


Concerning Felons, here are some sample answers. These are good points and might have been better before the vote or poll. Why debate after the election, so to speak?
Rembrandt Senior Member

No, in fact Hell No!....laws are such that there are different degrees of felony's which eventually muddy the waters of right and wrong. There are provisions for the felon to get their gun rights restored, if the person can prove they've dramatically turned around, they can receive a pardon.

To give felons gun rights cheapens it for the people who have obeyed and
followed the law.

The percentage of felons who are repeat offenders would make the process a gamble....with the odds in the felons favor.

redneck2
Semior member
Posts: 1,391 I know a guy that is a registered sex offender. His offense was that he and some other guys were out in the country and he had to relieve himself. While "in the act" a county cop happened to drive around the corner. He got nabbed for indecent exposure. This is on a gravel road miles from town.

Now he's labeled for life for something that we've probably all done. Should he lose all his guns for this??

For all those "hell, no"...think a little before you make a decision. Felony isn't always armed robbery.


Some felonies are like civil torts
BigFatKen
In Wisconsin, if you buy a building under a land contract, alter it for your business and go out of business with over $2500 "damage", you have committed a Felony.

I sold a commercial building on hy 51, Mercer, WI to a man who ran a business from it. Business went bad so he removed the wheelchair ramp in the driveway to allow big logging trucks to park in the back. They paid him some rent. He also rented the building as a house to a logger.

He never replaced the ramp and left with over $2500 of damage. I now have the building back with a quit claim deed.

Should I turn him in to the DA for prosecution for a felony?

I would like to see debate about this. Many people do Felonies, much fewer are Felons. You must be cought and prosecuted to be a Felon. If the law became so tightly written that everyone committed a Felony somehow, then no one could own guns. I am certain I committed Felonies just by passing through some States with a cetain gun in my posession. Now am I a Felon too? Or must I be convicted first.

This is for opinion polls only. A question like "do you have a .22 or your first gun is just a personal fact, not up for debate.
 
If the law became so tightly written that everyone committed a Felony somehow,

There so many laws nowdays it is impossable not have comitted a felony.

And it is bull that a person can become a sex offender just because he took a leak in public out of sight.

-Bill
 
I know I always bring this up when this subject comes up, but if I could direct your attention to my sig (and it doesn't require you to embrace the totality of Objectivism or even like Ayn Rand...truths are truths no matter who says them).




Violent, dangerous felons are going to possess guns even if possession by a felon becomes a capital offence.
 
my thoughts exactly

NYC can only have about 1000 Felony trials per year. Eveyone else must take a plea bargain.

I saw a man charged with Felony stealing in Hillsbourgh County, FL ~1980 for stealing grapes from a grocery. The DA just charged everyone with a Felony and worked out a plea. This case the man won. He had just tasted a few more grapes than the store owner liked.
 
Whm1974;

"And it is bull that a person can become a sex offender just because he took a leak in public out of sight."

Coupla questions. I presume you've stood trial for this in every county in the U.S.? Or how else do we know that you know this for sure?

On the other hand, I wouldn't put it past some of the LEO's I've run across over the years to try to charge a guy with something like that. Feel free to ask for the specifics, you won't like 'em. But don't say I didn't warn ya.

900F
 
A crime with no victim is no crime at all. I wouldn't restrict people who've committed victimless felonies. But then if you aren't going to punish for victimless felonies, why should they be felonies (or crimes) at all?
 
I agree to a point

Manedwolf
Senior MemberJoin Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,227 How about "violent felony"?

That'd be the sort I'd think you'd want to keep guns away from?

He should not be carrying or buying guns. I agree totally on that. There are a lack of minorites in some police departments because it is not stressed enough in school how a Felony will affect your life. It is not about the "time" you may spend iin "Jevey Hall".

I can see removing his right to vote or sit on juries. If a violent Felon does a good deed like saving the girl in the story post #1, he should not go to jail for picking up another's gun and protecting an Innocent.

This is the type of person I would say that in normal situations should never have a gun.

However, if the crap hits the fan and a Sheriff needs to Deputize the whole city to protect them from an invasion, it should not be "Felons need not apply." If a line of men and women are advancing on a enemy in an assult line, everyone may take or give fire. When it comes to "shoot or die", I would rather arm a Felon, than have no one next to me.

These are good posts. I hope something like this is put in front of the next pool. Good night.
 
More felony baloney.

<I am not a lawyer, so don't use this as part of your opening statement in a trial>

In Ohio, a CCW permit holder who is actively carrying and following all the rules, like the "in plain sight" carry rule in a car, can still commit a fellony. If they are pulled over for a trafic violation and fail to notify the officer that they are carrying a gun and have a CCW permit, they have just commited a felony. Keep in mind that the officer already knows that this person has the license prior to approaching the car. (based on the registration, yes, let's not quibble over driving someone elses car please)

Also, just because there is a law does not mean the it is neccesairly going to be enforced. I think if a "felon" defends a police officer's life with a gun, the police officer's testimony would surely see that the "felon" is acquited. Laws need to be interpretted. Words cannot possibly account for every conceivable possibility.

IMHO
 
Too many laws to just say "All Felons are bad".

plevniak
Member


In Ohio, a CCW permit holder who is actively carrying and following all the rules, like the "in plain sight" carry rule in a car, can still commit a fellony. If they are pulled over for a trafic violation and fail to notify the officer that they are carrying a gun and have a CCW permit, they have just commited a felony.

This is so true. One member said in another post "I have a Felon friend that bought pot for his MS group. He got cought holding "sale weight" and is now a Felon with MS who keeps a single barrel shotgun in his closet." We cannot say that ALL Felons have broken laws equally.

A man who can barely hobble around his apartment or uses a wheelchair, poorly at that, should not be lumped into the "violent felon" catagory. He poses little danger to the community.
 
I brought this up on GT about a week ago I believe and had someone reem me out for "consorting with felons". They made me out to be this horrible person. A lot of people probably know people and have no idea they are felons. The people I happen to know are damn good people and I know more than one. One is a felon for paperwork, but like in my last thread can;t remember why. Something to do with taxes maybe?
 
"consorting with felons"

I remember your answer and the reply.

So many things are Felonies that it is hard to not know one. I am seeing a trend here.

I was at my wife's 20th HS anniversary in 1994. There happened to be some Army recruiters there. They explained how the Domestic Assault bill had gutted the pool of eligible people and how others were being removed/retired because in 1974 they hit their wife once after a PTSD insident, and then in 1994, could not use or even hold an M-16.
 
Here We Go

Okay, I feel safe to say that with the statute of limitations over on any crimes I've commited in my lifetime, I can divulge a little about myself,,, I am a recovering addict, who would commit a felony, or multiple felonies everytime I went to make drug purchases in the housing projects years ago. I have changed, and I believe some other people can change as well... I was one of the ones that never got caught, or if I did get caught, I would plea bargain the charges down to misdemeanors. ;)
 
I was at my wife's 20th HS anniversary in 1994. There happened to be some Army recruiters there. They explained how the Domestic Assault bill had gutted the pool of eligible people and how others were being removed/retired because in 1974 they hit their wife once after a PTSD insident, and then in 1994, could not use or even hold an M-16.

I'm supprise the services are not pushing to have this law repealed.

-Bill
 
If they can't be trusted with a gun why let them out of prison in the first place? Once you're out of prison you've served your time and should have all of your rights fully restored.
 
I agree

I'm supprise the services are not pushing to have this law repealed.

-Bill
I thought this sunseted with the AWB. Let's put a new post to see.

If they can't be trusted with a gun why let them out of prison in the first place? Once you're out of prison you've served your time and should have all of your rights fully restored.
 
So a person convicted of a felony loses their voting and firearms rights FOREVER, and some of you think that's a great idea.

Think for a second why having the right to vote and the right to keep and bear arms are important.

Now see if you can think of anyone who would want there to be fewer people who would be allowed to vote, fewer people who would be allowed to keep and bear arms - and why.

Now think - do those people have any influence on what laws are created? Yes, they are called "politicians", "Elected Officials" and "Powers That Be". They have shown a marked tendency in recent years to make common everyday things a crime. People make mistakes. Mistakes in judgement, even clerical errors, which are not malicious, nor violent, nor destructive, nor larcenous. To simply look into a computer system remotely, without permission - not steal, not pirate, not destroy, but simply to look - is a felony. There is a checkbox on the driver's license form, checking the wrong box is a felony. Forgot your glasses? Hand slipped? Misunderstood the question? Tough luck, buddy boy, you just earned a stay at the Graybar Hotel.

Ayn Rand was right - Government has no power over honest men, only criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, you make some. How long before chewing gum in a restricted zone, or spitting on the sidewalk, or keeping out overdue library books - How long before these things become felonies? Only until we have a shortage of criminals. Only until the PTB's decide that too many of us are voting and keeping firearms.

Then we'll decide to vote to change things, but oops! We have that old felony on our records for forgetting to put the toilet seat down in a federal building - sorry charlie, you can't vote anymore. So then enough of us will get angry and try to revolt against the oppressive tyranical government, but oops! We don't have guns anymore because of that old felony on our records for changing a flat in a no-tire-changing zone. So we think we'll just borrow a gun from our buddies, but oops! Seems like they all have felonies on their records too. Who would have thought that all of your friends would have turned out to be dangerous felons?

And of course, all the sheeple will be pleased as punch that you dangerous felons can't vote and God forbid one of you ever gets ahold of a gun.

Is that what it will take for us to realize where this is headed? WAKE UP!
 
Felonies

I'm pretty sure that according to Georgia law at the time, my wife and I committed felonious acts with one another in the privacy of our own home. Those laws may not be on the books anymore but I don't know. Alabama law prohibits certain ... ahem ... adult toys.
I generally agree that felons should not have firearms but so many things ... so many non-violent things are classified as felonies these days .... how can you NOT commit one at some time.
 
It is assinine to limit a person's rights simply because some governmental entity decided to label that particular crime as a felony instead of a misdemeanor. And I don't hold with that crap about distinguishing between "violent" felony and just plain-jane felony.

The ONLY criteria that should be applied in decided whether felons should be allowed to possess/own (whatever verb you would like to use) firearms is their potential danger to society. If they are dangerous enough to keep them from having their rights restored upon release from incarceration, then they shouldn't be released at all. And there's no point in even debating the issue, since incarcerated individuals will not be possessing firearms. However, a felon released from incarceration should (notice I said should, I realize our current state of laws/sentencing does not follow this guideline) be allowed to possess a firearm since by default he cannot be considered a danger to society (otherwise, how could he have been released?).

No gun law on the books is going to stop criminals from USING a gun for criminal purposes, whether they have a felony conviction or not. But no law should EVER deny a man his right to self-defense either, criminal history or no.
 
Fortunately the Dangerous Conduct of Spitting is still "only" a fine.

[tin foil hat]And why do you think they keep over hyping that "bird flu pandemic" bovine scat?

As soon as we have another pandemic you can bet that spitting will become a felony.[/tin foil hat]
 
Ha!

I never thought of that. My expectorate will contribute to the passage of bodily fluid contamination of the James River watershed. Alright then.

Guess I need to don the rubber suit to keep my sweat from falling as well!!

cavman
 
New laws+ New crimes....why???Not enough folks were committing the old ones;or the courts did not want to prosecute for the old ones(immigration laws anyone??).So they still need to generate stats , ergo new ways to disqualify,tag and process people. BTW,I live in Ma., so you have an idea of my situation.
 
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