Some new thoughts for back-up/pocket guns.

[mountaindrew]

I am expecting to get my CCW permeit very soon, but I still cannot decide on a carry gun.

First let me start by saying I have full size guns and even a kel-tec p-11 for holster carry. I am talking about deep concealment.

I am comparing these different types: kel-tec p32/p3at. Taurus lightweight snubbie in .32 magnum , .22 magnum, or .38 special.
Or any other suggestions.

I just got rid of a ruger sp101 in 9mm. the gun worked well, but it was heavier than my p11 with half the capacity. If I get a revolver, it better do something better than the p11 (lighter, smaller)

I dont want anything that is extremely unpleasant to shoot. I want quick followup shots and lots of pleasant practice. The 24 ounce sp101 in 9mm was on the edge of pleasant, but a 14 ounce .357 or a 12ounce .38 would not be fun to shoot.

Who has one of the smaller caliber snubies? any advice?
Also, how bad/ hard is the p3at to shoot well? is th p32 any better?

Any other suggestions?

 

[TarpleyG]

The Kel-Tecs are perfect for what you want. I have a P-32 but feel undergunned with it so I don't carry it often unless I absolutely have to conceal to the nth degree. Go with a P3AT if you are going out to buy. Still too little gun IMO.

With that said, I had a P-11 and didn't care for it. I bought a Kahr PM9 and a S&W 642 (15 oz. Airweight, .38 +P) the same week and have been evaluating both. Right now I am really leaning toward the J-frame for a multitude of reasons. Shooting it with +Ps is no worse than shooting the Kahr or even a P-11 with +Ps.

Greg

 

[Coltdriver]

If you can find a S&W snubbie airweight they are great guns. About 15 or 16 oz empty, probably 19 oz loaded.

They are very nice to carry and not difficult to control at all. I am a person who hates heavy recoil and I put a premium on an accurate second shot.

The Kahr PM9 is also very nice, also around 15 ounces unloaded, but a bit more whip as it is a 9mm pistol. I had a Kahr P9 which at about 17 ounces unloaded was a very nice and controllable 9mm pistol.

 

[mountaindrew]

Well the Kahr is definately out of my price range, but thanks for the suggestion. Anyway, is it that much smaller than a p11?

As for recoil, My sp101 recoil was far more unpleasant than my p11 with the same loads, it it was a heavier gun! The kel-tec does jump more, but I guess the slide absorbs the impact, because I dont feel the smack like I do with the snub. This is why I worry that an ultra lighwieght .38 would be highly unpleasant (I have never shot one of any of the guns I mentioned)

I dont really have any shooting buddies to borrow guns form to try out different platforms. I have basically been buying different types of guns for the past few years and selling/trading them to try to find ones I like.
(my only shooting buddies only shoot full-size 1911s or single action revolvers!)

 

[TarpleyG]

If you can find a S&W snubbie airweight they are great guns. About 15 or 16 oz empty, probably 19 oz loaded.

FWIW, I weighed mine the other day just for grins. On a RCBS scale it weighed 16 oz. loaded with 5 Gold Dot 125 gr. +Ps. My Kahr PM9 weighed in at 19 oz. with 7 147 gr. 9mm.

Greg

 

[bobby68]

I realize that a comfortable shooting gun is more desirable than one that is uncomfortable. But in addition, a gun that is comfortable to carry is also more important than one that is uncomortable to carry. It would be great to find one that does both, but at what price? I am not experienced with concealed carry, but i would like to ask which is more important, comfortable carry or comfortable shooting. Of course, the ultimate goal is self protection...

 

[Bob79]

Theres always a middle ground. If its so light you can't shoot accurate with it then you need a heavier gun no matter how comfortable you are carrying it. And when I say accurate I don't mean sharp shooter, you should be able to keep all the rounds at least in the torso or head up to 25-30 feet.

But by the same token if its too heavy you won't carry (so whats the use). So if your concealed carry gun isn't "a pleasure to shoot" at the range, but you can deal with it (some pain, etc) and put hits on target, then you've got a winner if its also comfortable.

 

[LynnKCircle]

"First let me start by saying I have full size guns and even a kel-tec p-11 for holster carry. I am talking about deep concealment."

Really deep concealment? Something you could wear anytime, anywhere, except when you're facing a metal detector? Something so easy to conceal that you can actually forget you have it?

North American Arms Black Widow with .22 WMR cylinder. Although it looks smaller, it has a full two-inch barrel, the same as any other snubby. Although single-action, with practice it can be fired as fast as a double-action revolver being fired double-action. The factory rubber grips and the fixed sights are good enough for hitting a sheet of typing paper at 25 yards --- with a lot of practice. But that also means they are good enough for a head shot at 25 feet.

Yes, it's an "always-on-you" and "weapon of last resort." You have five rounds -- that's it, forget about any "tactical reloads." It's reloaded by removing the cylinder, punching out the empties with the cylinder pin, and then replacing. NOT something to consider doing under fire.

Yet, despite all of its admitted faults and caliber inadequacies, it IS "always with you," and it beats the heck out of hauling out your other "always with you gun" and urinating on the bad guy.

 

[lanceman193]

My choices?

Deep cover SEECAMP 32 Cheap Cheap Cheap now.Hellava pistol.Works everytime.You will need a back pocket leather holster(which can also be carried in front pocket).Mine is KC although everybody makes one now.My car gun IS a Kahr PM 9,in a Fist Kydex holster(front strongside pocket).when threat is greater OR you forgot Seecamp.Having said that,I love to spend money on beautiful,rare,older J frame RB or 3 inch RB K frames.Any older,stainless newer,no dam'n lock,22LR,22Mag,38Spec,or .357.

 

[Bear Gulch]

Walther ppk

 

[Wilson 17&26]

I don’t want anything that is extremely unpleasant to shoot.

Best go with the P-32 if you want something small, light and with little recoil. It will handle Cor-Bon but uses a Rimlock Spacer, $8.65 if you like JHP. I personally prefer FMJ in a .32 and you don’t have the rim lock consideration.

 

[at-home-daddy]

I have a P3AT and feel it's a wonderful CCW for deep concealment...the slimmest, best size/weight-to-power-ratio pistol out there...and I recommend 'em all the time.

Having said that, since you've included this: "I dont want anything that is extremely unpleasant to shoot. I want quick followup shots and lots of pleasant practice" -- the P3AT may, in fact, not be the pistol for you. It's pleasant to carry, but not to shoot. The 7oz. (unloaded) P3AT has more felt recoil than any of my .45's or .357Sig's. It's lightweight, and tough to keep a firm grip on when firing, even with a (recommended) Bersa or NAA finger extension. It is not a pistol that offers "...lots of pleasant practice."

I've heard the P32 is much more along the lines of what you're describing. However, I've never fired one, so I can't personally attest to that. Consider too, however, that the drop from .380 to .32 is a relatively significant one IMHO. Guess is all depends on whether the priority is pleasant fun on the range...or serious defense.

 

[ruger357]

My S&W 637 is a great little gun. But when that is too big I drop my .32 Seecamp in my pocket.

 

[HiWayMan]

I would reccommend the Taurus 651 in .357. Carry .38+P in it and you'll be set, plus you'll have the option of upgrading to a more powerful cartridge if the need arises. There is no hammer to get snagged. You'll have an adequate cartridge for self defense. The heavier frame will soak up the recoil much better than an Airweight. Don't worry about those few extra ounces of weight, carry it for a week and you won't even know it is there. Besides, those few ounces really don't compare to the few extra pounds most of us are carrying on our frames everyday anyway. Best of luck in making a decision that suits you..

 

[HarryB]

Picked up a SW 642 before Xmas for $325. No excuse not to carry it. Drops into a pocket and disappears with a $12 Uncle Mike's holster. So comfortable to carry I have forgotten its in my pocket when I remove my pants before bed. Five rounds of 38 +P ain't bad...

 

[Lennyjoe]

Another vote for the P3AT. That pistol is ideal for pocket carry.

 

[Island Beretta]

g26..hands down the ultimate..if too fat for you then the slimline Glock..I think it is the G36 or G30..

 

[mountaindrew]

Thanks for all your suggestions, guys. I have not decided yet, but I am leaning toward the p-3at. Foe now though, I have decided to just spend some more time and money practising with the p-11 and get comfortable. It is really not that heavy or thick, So I will try to carry that when I get my permit, and see how it goes.

Lynn, I am intrugued by the black widdow, but I am a bit put off by a single action for defence.

HiWayMan, An all steel revolver is signifianty heavier than the p-11 and would be a step in the wrong direction (except for the added power of .357)

Island Berretta
What will any of those Glocks do that my kel-tec won't? (except make me sell my car to buy one) The Baby Glocks are bulkier, heavier, and far more expensive, and I really dont see the advantage (with the exception of the single stack .45, maybe, but then .45 is twice as expensive to practise with than 9mm)

 

[Jim PHL]

I have pocket carried a P3AT for some time and it truly is a gun you can carry anywhere except a metal detector. That said, even though mine has been reliable, there are many who have had bad experiences with them not going Bang when they were supposed to. In addition, I personally think that even though neither the .380 from the KT or .38 spl from a snubby is going to leave a barrel at magnum speed, the ability to load the snubby with a 125,135 or 158 grain load, possibly in a +P, gives it a slight ballistic advantage. (You won't get great velocity from either, you may get better penetration from the heavier snub load.) I recently bought a S+W M37. I've kept the KT for now but it may be gone unless I encounter a situation where the snubby is too big or too heavy. So far, since the snubby got here, I haven't carried the KT at all. I have more confidence both in the reliability of the revolver and improved ballistics of the cartridge.

 

[MR.G]

I usually carry in my front pocket. I like my KT P-11 9mm because of the 11 round capacity, but the grip is wide and prints in some pants pockets. I like my KT P-3AT .380 because of its size and weight. My P-11 and P-3AT have been very reliable, but I have talked to others that have had problems with theirs. The gun that I have carried the most over the last 15 years is a S&W model 60 .38 special. The gun has been tuned, had Wolf springs installed, wears Uncle Mikes boot grips, and has been polished inside and out. I keep it loaded with 148 gr. SWHP ammo. Only five rounds, but it is reliable and pretty accurate.