Some people just don't get it. Long Post

[thump_rrr]

Sorry for the long post but please bear with me.
First of all I have only gotten into guns and shooting last November.

I live in Canada where our gun laws are much more strict and prices on firearms and accessories are much higher due in part to export restrictions placed by the US Department of State.

Since getting into the sport I've purchased a Springfield Stainless Loaded 1911, S&A Magwell. Range bag, Pelican case, A Lee 50th Aniversary Kit, Hornady LnL AP Progressive Press with case feeder, RCBS vibratory tumbler and media separator, Dillon RT 1200 rotary trimmer, Various dies, A gun safe, CR-Speed WSM2 race holster, belt along with 6 magazine holders and 5 Wilson Combat 500 ETM Magazines.

10,000 Large Pistol Primers, 5,000 230gr .451 plated bullets, 6,000 Small Rifle Primers , 5,000 55gr. 224 bullets and 500 69gr. SMK's. 10lbs of powder.

To get the required permits I had to take my hunters safety course,
non restricted safety course (long guns),
Restricted safety course (handguns and anything that falls under a barrel length of 18" or overall lenght of 26" or anything else they feel looks scary)

I then had to make my application to get my Posession and Aquisition License.

Once that was completed I needed to join a range and pay my membership and take 2 more safety courses so I could then purchase restricted weapons.

Once this was all done I took a 2 day Black Badge course which is mandatory if I wanted to compete in IPSC.

To say that I have spent $5,000-$6,000 up to this point would be an understatement.

So I'm at the range and I'm speaking to a guy who is probably in his late 40's and is there with his young son.

I mentioned that I'm new to the sport.
He's shooting a nice race gun and I'm shooting my Springfield.
He has a chronograph out and I ask a few questions.
He's very nice and answers my questions and goes above and beyond by chronographing my ammo and giving me great reloading tips.

He encourages me to compete in my first 2 probationary IPSC matches etc.

As we are about to leave I pick up my range bag and my rifle case.

He then asks me what's in the rifle case and I reply a Norinco CQ-A (M4 clone) and then it starts.

You should have bought a quality rifle such as a RRA, JP, whatever else I don't remember. There's a reason that your rifle only cost $675 while the other rifles cost $2500-$3000.

My Norinco doesn't look as pretty as most other American rifles.
The trigger was a little rough and the upper to lower fit was a little sloppy.
I sill managed to shoot a few 1/2" groups at our 50 meter indoor range even as a novice shooter which seems good enough for me.
That being said should a guy who never even held an AR-15 let alone shoot one go out and spend $3000 ($3450 after taxes) when he doesn't know if he'll like shooting a rifle?

Would it not be in the best interest of the sport to encourage everyone to participate regardless of what rifle they choose or can afford to purchase?

I have other responsibilities and hobbies which do not permit me to spend $3,000-$4,000 on a first rifle. Should I not be able to go out and enjoy myself like everyone else?

I forgot to ask him if quality was so important in every aspect of his life why was he driving a Honda instead of a Mercedes or whatever else.

End Rant.

 

[Geckgo]

Do you really care what anyone else thinks of your choices?
Do you like the choices that you've made?

These would be better questions to ask, IMO.

 

[Sediment]

First off congrats on getting into the world of shooting.

You meet these sort of people all the time at the range, gun shop, internet forums, and anywhere else the discussion turns to guns. Just turn the other cheek and go on your merry way when you meet someone that feels the need to chastise your choice of weapon. You got what you could afford, plain and simple.

 

[RyanAnchors]

Snobbery occurs everywhere, sir!
Just buy whatever you like and can afford and enjoy it!
I have a nice AR that I assembled myself for about $800-$900. It isn't "top of the line", but it is from a reputable company with all the top of the line manufacturing options/processes.
Cheap isn't always poor quality. He is probably one of those guys that hangs a light, laser, grip, flip-up sights, magpul levers, toaster, microwave, etc off the rails on his rifle, so don't even be offended by it.
I'm amazed that you guys can get a lot of the cool Chinese and Russian imports that we can't (importing restrictions from certain countries and certain classes of firearms here). I saw Russian SKS in a Canadian firearms catalog for $220! Can't get a Russian for under $350-$400 here...some things about Canada's gun laws are actually better (not many, but some!).

Warning: This is where my post goes off into a sub-rant itself. Sorry for posting something so long in your thread, I'm not trying to hijack it.

However, I'm even more amazed by reading about all the permitting and licensing requirements you had to go through. I commend you for putting up with that man!
Anti-gun people (or super liberal people even if they aren't anti-gun) always tell me that America is the "laughing stock of the world" and we should try to be more like Europe.

It is stories like this that remind me that I am right and they are wrong lol.
I am so grateful for all the rights and freedoms I have here and these people just don't get it. I've never been to Canada, though I want to visit. I've been to Paris and London...it is pretty and fascinating, but it BLOWS. There are cameras everywhere (I mean everywhere), police presence 24/7 (and they look more military than police where I was), you can't even carry a knife ( much less a firearm), they have "free speech" (but it has far more limits than it does here). Yet all the criminals have guns there...

...These people try to tell me we need to change our country, but when I tell them if they think it is perfect there, why not simply move? And they really never have a real reason.
Why don't all these gun-control people just move to London? I want to keep where I live the way it is, because it is one of the only modern countries where I can enjoy my hobby. Most of these people don't even call themselves American, they just consider themselves trendy "citizens of the world" or something.

I just don't understand why they have to ruin everyone else's good time (scratch that, trample other people's rights for the sake of their own political beliefs).

 

[elano]

I wouldn't worry about him. What's most important is what YOU like. Sorry to hear about your misfortuine of Canadian gun laws.

 

[Ignition Override]

RyanAnchors: Well-put.

The west Europeans developed "democratic socialism" after WW2 partly as a reaction to the memories of vast hungry masses during the Depression, and an attempt to fend off the growing post-war menace from the leftists. Please correct me if this is not accurate.

Living on a continent where warfare and mass-butchery of villagers had been the larger countries' (or kingdoms, duchies etc) style of foreign policy for hundreds of years, they tried in the post-WW2 years to get every country (especially West Germany) tightly entangled in industrial and Common Market associations, to try to avoid the classic separations, which had helped lead to the nightmarish WW1 and WW2 years.

Because of their different histories, they resent our freedoms, which were created by a people who wanted a much weaker federal govt. than what most of them have had for a while.
Many of them choose to forget that we are a fairly new country, started mostly by people "over there" who voted with their feet, to leave.
Maybe such talk is not tolerated by the Mods.
I'll leave and 'lightly' reload several .308 test cases for the fourth time to use in the FR8.

 

[RyanAnchors]

I totally agree that they resent American freedom and they have been living in the nanny state so long that they don't know anything else.

Now that this is my major hobby/passion, I can never leave the U.S. and live somewhere else. I'm cool with that anyway, but it is a real eye-opener when you realize how restricted things are in a lot of places...

You'd think they would be against gun control after the atrocities of the holocaust...

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."
-Adolf Hitler, 1942

 

[Johnny_Come_Lately]

If one worries what others think of him, he is forever beholden to them. I make my decisions based on my preferences, not to please others. When others begin paying my bills, then their opinion will matter.

 

[Magno]

Funny how my favorite gun I've ever owned set me back $350 and wins my attention over my others which cost over $800.

It's all about money for some people, and those people just don't get my respect on the matter, plain and simple. Just ignore that guy, he's not worth talking to if he wants to judge you by the way you spend your money (which you did very intelligently IMO).

If you are a Mosin Nagant owner you will hear this stuff everywhere you go, constantly getting people on your case because your rifle only costed ____. Yet most of the folks I've had the pleasure of talking to about this I can still out shoot with my 91/30, so take that for what it's worth...

 

[Obsidian]

As stated, congratulations on even sticking it out as long as you have. I think the nanny state works much like other things for the regulations or paperwork. (I'm stuck in Veterans Administration paperwork hell now) They say, oh you can have this or that, its just this red tape, paperwork, which is all of course very reasonable, till most folks just quit. So kudos to you for making it this far.

So far as someone making fun of your rifle, meh. You have what you can afford. I have a "taticool" style AR which really is pretty stripped down in some folks eyes. I also have a scoped long barreled AR for coyotes and the like. Can my Iron sighted AR do that too? Yup. Could I get in to those matches and hold my own? I would think so. I shoot instinct on weapons anyway.

You have what you have. Its been observed by me over and over that too many folks get hung up on the latest tech to make up for their own poor skills. Sure that great add on can make a big difference, if you have the background to build upon first. If you like it and shoot it well for what you need as you seem to be able to do, someone else's advice may be great, but its not for you.

Think of some of this "advice" you hear much like your parents or inlaws or grandparents may have given you on your child. Sure some of it was great, but not all of it was I wager. Its the sifting of the info that can be problematic. You have what you have. I bet that you put a lot more heart and soul in to your items than someone that has a 2000.00 battle rifle that cringes when it gets dirty, or thinks that is the only answer to their questions.

Keep shooting and enjoying yourself.

 

[blarby]

FWIW lad- kudos for sticking it out in a country far less friendly than ours.

I'd trust a $200 rifle in the hands of someone who could use it, vs $3000 to the tacti-fool any day.

Think straight-shoot straighter.

Great job on both.

 

[Bonesinium]

I would have told him there is a reason I spent 4 times less to put holes in paper but would be more then happy to buy a "quality" rifle is he wants to give me the couple thousand dollars I saved in not doing so.

 

[jgiehl]

My wife bought me a $1200 S&W 460V and I still can't believe we paid that much for a gun. Aside from our two S&W's our most expensive firearm is $630. Not everyone can afford such luxuries as a $5000 gun. Just shrug your shoulders and ignore them. Because in the end there's not much difference between the two. They both go bang, send a bullet down range and hit the target. The main difference being that yours cost a whole heck of a lot less just to do the same thing.

 

[moonpie]

a lot of hidollar guns cost more because all the bells and whistles have already been added. you can upgrade an economy rifle to suit your needs without the extra baggage.

 

[bikerdoc]

My standard response to those kind of people, "When you pay my mortgage you can have a say in my choice of weapons."

 

[Onmilo]

Geez, ya coulda just told him it was a C15 Century Arms M16 clone and REALLY got him all worked up!

 

[FROGO207]

The OP really hits home about the hoops one has to jump through to do what we in the good ol' USA can just DO. I too admire his resolve to get where he is today. The person you dealt with may be jealous that you payed less for something that is a better shooter than he has. Or he may think that he is smarter than you so opened his mouth and proved he is not. How I wish the world was perfect----I have a long way to go myself, but I keep trying.

 

[4sooth]

There's an old adage--"You can't buy better scores." When I was shooting trap and skeet there were many folks who came to the range in upscale automobiles, dressed to the nines in expensive, name brand, outdoor clothing, and having a trunk full of $5000-$6000 shotguns. To a person each would extoll the virtues of these megabuck guns--being careful to constantly mention the cost of the firearm. But none of them could shoot worth a crap!!! On the trap or skeet range, not one of them was better than about 85-90 per hundred targets. A local older man shooting a sixteen gauge Ithaca pump would embarrass them with his 97-98 per hundred scores. Not one of these folks ever seemed to grasp that cost has nothing to do with skill. As long as the firearm is reliable enough for the task at hand, it is more cost effective to purchase the lowest cost firearm which will reliably do the job.

I own several DPMS ARs and each is reliable and most important--COST EFFECTIVE. Many locals have criticised my choice of ARs with the same comments--"You should hve bought==(name your favorite brand).

Buy and use what YOU are comfortable with. I wonder if the guy can actually shoot--or just likes to impress others with the cost of his firearms.

 

[unspellable]

Having a rifle that cost more than the other guy's won't protect you from snobbery. Customer in a gun shop knocked my double rifle (Which presumably cost three times what his rifle did.) as "too inaccurate" for deer hunting. Wonder if he goes deer hunting with a 27 lb bench rest rifle?

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Welcome to the sport we all share, especially under your restrictive circumstances.

Guns are like women ... some guys marry skinny ones, others marry fat ones. Some are pretty as can be, others ... well I'll just let that go. What's really important is what makes you happy.

I have some relatively expensive guns ... I have some cheap/inexpensive guns and I like them all (you got kids? Same thing there too).

Gun snobs are like ALL snobs, they aren't happy unless they rain on your parade ... I say "screw them" and go HAPPILY on my merry way!

 

[Dnaltrop]

I try not to speak ill of someone's guns, If you don't have a ready solution to the problem at hand, It's best to appreciate the gun for what it is, and offer your own if you're feeling particularly neighborly.

I've found the best response to $3000 guns is knowing the difference between "Inexpensive" and "Cheap". Cheap is the polite derogatory.

A Nagant is inexpensive... My buddy has a Cheap Bryco.

All in the branding.

At the range it's just about the shot, and that warm glow when you outshoot them with the inexpensive stuff.

 

[Robert]

I have shot and competed with a JP CTR-02. My friend was nice enough to let me use it. IT was an amazing rifle. Well worth the asking price. But there in no way in the world I could afford it. Heck my AR is built from parts, most all of them second hand, and was a Christmas present from my same friend. RRA upper and lower, Colt barrel, misc internals, Yankee Hill quad rail float tube, and a JP stock. And you know what? I couldn't be prouder of my mutt.

 

[ants]

Springfield Stainless Loaded 1911, S&A Magwell. Range bag, Pelican case, A Lee 50th Aniversary Kit, Hornady LnL AP Progressive Press with case feeder, RCBS vibratory tumbler and media separator, Dillon RT 1200 rotary trimmer, Various dies, A gun safe, CR-Speed WSM2 race holster, belt along with 6 magazine holders and 5 Wilson Combat 500 ETM Magazines. 10,000 Large Pistol Primers, 5,000 230gr .451 plated bullets, 6,000 Small Rifle Primers , 5,000 55gr. 224 bullets and 500 69gr. SMK's. 10lbs of powder.

Geez, I can't afford all that.

But I bet I can still outshoot you.





[thump, my friend: Funny that you rant about some guy who's a snob about a $2500 rifle,
and then list your $2500 worth of gear lots of us can't afford.]


P.S. Are those US dollars, or Canada dollars?



Well, don't worry about that guy.
At least he gave you some useful reloading tips.
Now, go load some ammo and have some fun shooting.

 

[Baba Louie]

I only wish we could buy certain Norinco products here in the "Land of the Free"... eh?

Oh the irony of it all.

You shoulda said "Even the US shooters can't get their hands on one of these bad boys... it's not even ON the Top Tier list, totally".

Good on ya. Keep shooting. What's that old saying? 1.Dont let the small stuff bug ya. 2. It's all small stuff (if it ain't life and death)

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

It is unfortunate that we can't get Norinco firearms in this country. They may not be of the best quality but man they make clones of everything!