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Some say a .380 isn;t enough

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by vynx, Jan 26, 2011.

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  1. vynx

    vynx Member

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    Some people (lots actually) say a .380 isn'y a large enough caliber.

    I am attaching a link to the ElPasoTimes.com that tells how a retired mexican police officer killed 3 out of 4 home invasion guys with his .380.

    And they had vests and an AK.

    Here's the link:

    http://www.elpasotimes.com/juarez/ci_17185314?source=pkg

    He must have kept his cool and went for head shots.
     
  2. SmokeySam81

    SmokeySam81 Member

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    I don't feel that a .380 is ideal, not by a long shot, but it is sufficient if it is what you have. It also goes to show, that a bullet put in the right spot will usually beat the bigger one put in the wrong spot, and the .22 you carried on your belt or in your bra is better than the .500 S&W you left at home.
     
  3. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Member

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    The Colt .380 was enough for John Dillenger.........pocket carry.
     
  4. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    Had to be well placed shots like you said, not sure if any civilian caliber will penetrate vests.

    What I've read about .380 is more things have to be in your favor for it to work as intended. Heavy clothing etc. could subtract enough to make the rounds less effective, or ineffective. Or in more quaint terms, just piss the subject off.

    I keep one in my car just in case, loaded with 90 gr Corbon JHPs.
     
  5. SmokeySam81

    SmokeySam81 Member

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    Most vests, such as our own military's, are designed to stop shrapnel, not bullets. They will stop up to a 9mm fmj, but anything beyond that is not a guarantee. To effectively stop a bullet you have to wear the plates, and they always have gaps.
     
  6. heeler

    heeler Member

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    There are plenty of storys about people using a .380 to successfully repel an attacker or intruder.
    Although the the .380 is no .45acp neither is the 9mm,.38 Special,.357 Magnum,.44 Special,....You see where these types of bidding caliber wars go.
     
  7. SmokeySam81

    SmokeySam81 Member

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    My wife's Walther PPK/S is one of the most accurate pistols I have ever shot. Maybe we got lucky in picking, but it shoots good. I would pick that any day over something that I couldn't trust past twenty feet, no matter how big. I personally carry a .40 though.
     
  8. bikemutt
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    bikemutt Member

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    Here's to the Walther PPK/S. Mine's a Sig P230 SL, very accurate for me, and more reliable than not, although not perfect.
     
  9. rspeters

    rspeters Member

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    I Love my sig 238. Like has been mentioned above, a small pistol on you is better than a large pistol left at home.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
     
  10. btg3

    btg3 Member

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    Perhaps when the victim saw the gunmen outside, he was able to recognize that they had vests. Thus, he knew where his shots would need to be.

    We don't know the capacity of his gun or total rounds fired, but 3 kills says plenty about the shooter's ability to place shots -- while under extreme stress. Former police training may have been a factor.

    He likely had the element of surprise on his side, as well.
     
  11. DoomGoober

    DoomGoober Member

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    I bet the guy would have been packing something larger had it been legal:
    "Federal laws regarding firearms and explosives in Mexico restrict weapons of more than .380 caliber to military use."

    I also think he used the element of surprise, possibly head shots, at close range:
    "Sandoval was waiting near the entrance to open fire on the men, Martínez said. After he shot and killed three of the men, he called Mexico's emergency number to report what happened."

    If I was right next to the door as my assailants walked in, I'd want a pistol instead of a rifle too.
     
  12. ball3006

    ball3006 Member

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    My feelings is any hole in a bad guy is better than nothing. Besides, you could never be charged with trying to kill the guy instead of stopping him......chris3
     
  13. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    Wild Bill Hickock killed plenty of men with a 32 caliber
     
  14. 19&41

    19&41 Member

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    Wish the papers would say what pistol he was using. The ammo would be far too much to ask.
     
  15. 76shuvlinoff

    76shuvlinoff Member

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    Well from my own line up the fullsize 1911 and even the XD40sc don't always fit the moment. At those times my little wimpy LCP fills the bill. I kinda bet it would smart to get shot with it too.
     
  16. 357SIG

    357SIG Member

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    .380 is perfectly suitable for defense. The issue comes with firing through barriers and firing at oblique angles to the targeted organ in the body. That's really it. For the vast majority of situations, it will reach any organ in the body as well as any other defense round commonly used. Even with the other "big boys" of SD above the .380, you need shot placement, or you get little to nothing in the way of fight stopping.

    I just went through this (shot placement being king) over on TFL in the Marshal/Sanow thread in greater detail, if anyone is curious as to why I say that. I honestly can't bring myself to reiterate it here again so soon.
     
  17. btg3

    btg3 Member

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    Gotta ask... do you carry all 3, or do you anticipate "the moment" ahead of time?
     
  18. CZguy

    CZguy Member

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    You are correct about the .380. Many people confuse defensive shooting with offensive. In which case most pistol bullets are lacking.

    Also shot placement is the most important aspect. Now I know that my range is different than yours, but when I'm there I can't help but notice that a whole lot of people aren't very good shots.

    Sometimes I almost think that when people talk about their shooting skills on the internet, they might stretch their abilities a little bit.

    Sort of like the big fish I caught last summer. :D
     
  19. PabloJ

    PabloJ Member

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    I would not be very hard to establish that 9 Browning is more effective then calibers like .357Magnum or .45ACP.
     
  20. easyg

    easyg Member

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    If you want to risk your life to a .380 then that's your business.
     
  21. walking arsenal

    walking arsenal Member

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    Beats a sharp stick.
     
  22. David E

    David E Member

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    Any gun with you beats any gun not.

    I'm sure that guy had a whole lot of things going his way. But it's like saying, "You don't need those high dollar tires that have tread. Fred here just went cross-country on bald snow tires and didn't have any problems."

    Just because it's been done before doesn't always mean it's a good idea.
     
  23. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    The .380 ACP was considered by most of the big bore .45 acp "experts" in the 70's like Cooper to be the minimum for self defense. Caliber wise it makes as big a hole as a .38 spl, or 9mm or any of the .38 calibers including the .357 mag. What it lacks is bullet weight. Since it sends a 98gr pill out the muzzle of a 3" barrel at around 1,000 fps so its not exactly wanting in the velocity department and with JHP ammo its performance is well improved.

    Some may argue with the lower penetration it gets from JHP ammo, usually around 9 to 10 inches in ballistic gel is lacking enough penetration based on the FBI standards of 12". As others have pointed out though, civilians don't often have to shoot through barriers like LEO's which is why the .380 isn't a typical police cartridge in the US. As a defensive caliber, its quite adequate and the small pistols that are chambered for it makes them ideal for CCW.
     
  24. oerllikon

    oerllikon Member

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    Thats pretty impressive. The smallest round I would trust my life with would be a .380, not a 25 though. If I had a little range I would with a 22 LR. This whole subject is really subjective.

    Nobody wondered who this guy pissed off?
     
  25. sxcamaro05

    sxcamaro05 Member

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    I remember back in the 80's my father showed me an article about a string or robberies commited with .22 lr pistols. The criminals actually killed 2 people and shot a half dozen more over a few heists. Bottom line any caliber has the potential to do damage if it hits a target. Larger bullet just means more damage will be done.
     
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