Something between 7.62x39 and .308

Status
Not open for further replies.
"...the recoil becomes noticeably uncomfortable..." Sounds like you need a different stock, a recoil pad or a different rifle or cartridge.
Shooting stops being fun when it hurts. I'd be thinking something in .24 to .26 or .27 calibre. All of which will kill hogs and deer with no fuss.
Or a semi-auto. Like one of the new fangled .300 Blackout AR's. Assuming you have the budget, of course.
A .30 caliber, 150-grain bullet traveling about 2400 fps is a .303 British. Wouldn't exactly recommend it out of a Lee-Enfield if recoil is an issue though.
"...The Savage 340 is a bolt action..." Tack drivers too, but as they haven't been made for eons, you'd have to find a used one.
.300 Savage or .30 Remington AR(you won't find .30 Remington anywhere. The AR is currently on No Back Order at Midway too. Only made by Remington as well.) ammo won't be available in small places.
 
The R-15 in 30 Remington AR is available online from major firearms retailers and a Google search for the .30 RAR ammo showed 150gr Core-Lokt in stock at several places too. Back in November I bought the rifle and 10 boxes of 150gr Core-Lokts. I was able to find it without much trouble.

OP mentioned the .300 Savage rifles chambered for it aren't common and neither is loaded ammo...you won't find .300 Savage ammo in small shops either.

I took that as the OP doesn't mind having to search to get something he wants / needs
 
They made 788's in .30-30 and .44 mag ;)

3 ft-lbs of recoil diff takes comfy to hurt? Me thinks it's not just the diff of energy but some ergonomics between whatever platforms.

Change your recoil pad to new elastomer style (Sims?).
Add a little weight to the gun (synth stock can fill hollows).
Maybe just change the stock to something heavier (laminate).
 
Yup, a .308 or .300 Savage 99 is on my old beater list.
Not abused but of some character.

Old guns are cool.

FWIW I really like .35 Remington.
 
My dad has the Remington 30 AR and that gun will flat group. Sub-moa all day long with factory ammo. And right now, my local Academy store has 30 AR ammo on clearance for $20/ box. My dad loaded up on ammo at that price. That was cheaper than wholesale cost.
 
I guess I should expect to be misunderstood on internet forums, but even some of the above suggestions surprise me! :D

Never said it "hurts" to shoot a full powered .308, I just notice a considerable difference between the factory loads and the reduced loads I handload. I can shoot my handloads all day (and often do). I am not really interested in shooting 40 rounds of full powered .308 in a 7 lb. rifle though, and I don't know many folks who are. Besides, I enjoy shooting my rifles, and not just sighting them in at the beginning of the season and then putting them in the safe until the day of the hunt.

But the recoil is only a small part of why I ask the question. IMO, the .308 is really more gun than a person needs for most (not all, but most) whitetail hunting. Not many folks are skilled enough or have stable enough gun rests to be shooting at deer 300 yards away. Nor are their guns that accurate. 2" groups (what I tend to see from most folks in the real world) at 100 yards open up beyond 6" groups at 300 yards, and IMO, added to an unsteady hold that is a recipe for disaster on a deer standing far enough away to keep the shooter from knowing whether they even hit the critter or not.

In my LE days, I qualified expert with every weapon I was issued, and I won't even consider shooting at a live deer beyond 300 yards, and even then only if I have a very good rest and the animal is standing still and broadside. I realize not everyone feels this way and that's fine. Those are my personal limitations.

So really, a bullet that carries 900-1000 ft. lbs. of energy at 300 yards is all you need for a typical hunter shooting a typical deer at typical hunting ranges. And given that, the .308 is more gun than a person needs.

On the other hand, the 7.62x39 has it's limitations. It's a 150-yard deer rifle with factory ammo, and possibly a 200-yard gun with handloads in the right rifle.

So that leaves a gap between the 400-yard capable .308 and the 200-yard capable 7.62x39 in the .30 caliber offerings. Guess the trajectory advantages of the smaller diameter bullets eventually won out for American deer hunters ( even though 90% or more will never take a shot at a deer past 200 yards ), and that's why we haven't ever seen something like the 7.62x45 developed here in the states.

Looking at recoil, the 7.62x39 generates about 6 lbs. of recoil, while the .308 is over 15. Most people will start to wince beyond 12-13 lbs., esp. smaller framed men, women and youngsters. For instance, my 130-lb. daughter will shoot her .243, and she's taken two deer cleanly with it, but she doesn't WANT to shoot it unless she has to.

Replace that with a 7 lb. rifle that has 8 or 9 lbs. of recoil, and she would probably shoot with me a lot more often.

Anyway, I'm not really looking for advice per-se. I have my personal "solution" in my handloaded 150 grain .308 rounds that clock about 2300 fps. They are a joy to shoot, deadly accurate (sub-MOA to 300 yards), carry plenty of energy at any range I'm willing to shoot a deer at, and are inexpensive for me to load.

This was more a "wondering out loud" as to why that mid-range .30 caliber round never came about, and if there was one out there I just didn't know about.
 
Last edited:
I'm a big fan of the 6.5x55. But I was really asking about .30 caliber since I am also a fan of lobbing 150+ grain bullets downrange. Guess that's my years with the 30-30 coming out.

Heck, if someone just made a good, accurate bolt-action .30-30, I'd just load for that. The ballistics on the Hornady Leverevolution are almost exactly what I'm after. I've shot sub-MOA with those in my lever gun (scoped) but once you scope a lever gun, you're carrying well over 8 lbs. at that point. By comparison, my Savage with a 20" barrel is under 7 lbs.
 
Since you hand load you simply use 308 starting loads.

DONE next question.

Or if you can get beyond the "i need a repeater" to hunt with myth you can blow $700 real quick on a TC encore with a MGM 30/30 bbl just so you can shoot a mild 308 load in a different piece of brass
 
.308 may be more than is absolutely needed for deer, but it is not so excessive that there is a whole lot of demand for a .30 cal round that is ever so slightly less powerful, but still more powerful than .30-30. Most folks who want something less than .308 in a bolt gun rightfully go with a smaller caliber. There is no magic in .30 cal 150gr bullets, 6mm, 6.5mm, .277, and 7mm will all kill Texas german shepard deer just fine with lighter bullets and less recoil.

As others have said, the niche is just too narrow to breed much of a market. On the recoil side, you may be a bit more sensitive than most, i don't think putting a box or two through a hunting weight .308 is too terrible for most recreational shooters. I'm no fan of recoil, but I can put 40-50 much more powerful .30-06 rounds through my slightly over 7 lb rifle in a trip without a problem. On the other hand my .30-06 has a stock that fits me and a decent recoil pad, that may be part of your problem.
 
Last edited:
A .300 Savage is virtually identical to a .308, just loaded lighter. You can easily make .300 brass from .308's, just trim the neck shorter.
 
Since you hand load you simply use 308 starting loads.

DONE next question.
Click to expand...

R.W., I guess you didn't read much of what was posted before your "thread-ending" reply.

But since you brought it up, I mentioned - several times - that I'm actually shooting my .308 below the recommended starting loads using H4895.
 
Last edited:
Gtscotty, I suppose you're right. That the .308 is not excessively so much more than is needed that folks felt the need to find something less. I just figured that some shooting enthusiast at some point would have found some middle ground in .30 caliber.

My Savage 10 7.62x39 has a .308 bore. I plan to handload for it eventually, using 150-grain bullets. It sure would be nice to have one supply of bullets I could use in my 7.62x39, my .308, and something in-between.

It's that "something in-between" that I would probably spend the most time with at the range.
 
You should seriously look into the 30AR caliber. Light recoiling in a semi auto platform.
 
You should seriously look into the 30AR caliber. Light recoiling in a semi auto platform.
Click to expand...

More interested in a sub-7 lb. bolt gun, really. AR's don't do a thing for me. But that 30AR isn't far from what I was imagining.
 
R.W.Dale said:
What good would an obsolete pile of steaming vaporwear do the OP?

The best thing you could do with a 30AR would be to sell it.
Click to expand...
Lot of "obsolete" guns and calibers still being used to today. That opinion doesn't hold much truth.
 
Seeing as this is getting derailed, I take it that there really isn't much of anything between the two that I'm missing. What a pity.
 
well, if your interest is a bolt gun and you have no interest in the weakness of AR-15s with higher performing cartridges, then id consider .30ARX (6.5 grendel necked up to .308") or 7.62x39 you can load yourself to higher pressures, the bolt action can easily handle a x39 or grendel case pushed up to pressures that would break an AR.. you should get between 2000 and 2200ft/lbs muzzle energy from either of these and since there are already so many x39 bolt actons and magazines out there, that would probably be the easiest and cheapest
 
Since when is a .308 Winchester too much gun for a deer at 300 yds? Just because the cartridge has an effective range of x+100, doesn't mean it's not a good choice, even if you know all your shots will be <x.

:confused:

The answer to "why aren't these cartridges between x39 and 308 popular?" is "because the majority of folks aren't splitting hairs like you are."
 
300 Savage,
30/30
8MM Mauser
303 British,
30/40 Kraig,
Just to mention a few common ones. There must be at least 50 that fall into that catagory
 
Since when is a .308 Winchester too much gun for a deer at 300 yds? Just because the cartridge has an effective range of x+100, doesn't mean it's not a good choice, even if you know all your shots will be <x.



The answer to "why aren't these cartridges between x39 and 308 popular?" is "because the majority of folks aren't splitting hairs like you are."
Click to expand...

First, the .308 is more than MOST people need for deer, period. The fact that dead is dead is what keeps this point from being explored any further, but nobody needs 1400 ft. lbs. at 300 yards for a whitetail, esp. since almost nobody will be shooting at that distance anyway. But if they did, 1000 ft. lbs. is still more than adequate to seal the deal. So yea, as much as it may seem to some as heresy, let's face it - a .308 is more gun than just about anyone needs for a deer.

2nd, since when did gun guys stop splitting hairs? I'm not much of a gun guy, but just look at all the discussion/debates/heated arguments that rage on about just 6.5 vs. 7mm or 6mm vs. 6.5 - yada, yada, yada.

I'm just asking a question I'm curious about. If you have a reasonable answer, I'd love to hear it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

N
  • Locked
Something between 7.62x39 and .308...
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Replies
185
Views
8K
Ironhand54
Ironhand54
B
  • Locked
Recoil question
2
Replies
44
Views
1K
Legionnaire
Legionnaire
D
  • Locked
Winchester 94 Trapper Ammo
Replies
6
Views
821
Abel
A
M
  • Locked
AR15 7.62x39 for hunting?
Replies
6
Views
942
R.W.Dale
R
S
  • Locked
Choosing a new caliber: .243, ,270, or .308?
2 3
Replies
54
Views
26K
obx-shooter
O
Back
Top