Something between 7.62x39 and .308...

[Newtosavage]

I didn't miss the point. The cartridge you are asking about just seems redundant and useless unless you just want to add a new cartridge to your line up.

I'm not going to argue with you. It was the "and move on with life" comment that was unnecessary. Makes me wonder why you bother really.
The same could be said for any cartridge that's been created in the past 20 years. What's the point in discussing those then?

This is a discussion forum. Maybe that's the point you missed.

A cartridge that provides a little more velocity than the 7.62x39 in an accurate platform with more tolerable recoil in a lightweight rifle than the standard .308 factory load would be used by a lot of whitetail hunters IMO. That's my point.

 

[eastbank]

then I think a Remington model 7 in .308 would foot the bill by reloading, from a 30 carbine-7.62x39-3030-30-40 krag to full blown .308 loads and it would be light weight to boot. case closed.

 

[LoonWulf]

I believe he was referring to the Czech round (x45): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62×45mm

That would be a dandy deer round, but I’ve no idea of it’s availability. Sometimes I wish a few of these old intermediate rounds would be resurrected (e.g. 280 British).

Your right, i misread LOL. Id also forgot that round existed.

 

[Newtosavage]

For me personally, the answer to the question has always been 7x57 or 7mm-08 but you know how some folks love their dirty thirty's and frankly, if you're already loading for a couple 30 cal's, it's a matter of the convenience of having bullets on the shelf already.

then I think a Remington model 7 in .308 would foot the bill by reloading, from a 30 carbine-7.62x39-3030-30-40 krag to full blown .308 loads and it would be light weight to boot. case closed.

LOL - another one. "case closed."

Okay. I guess we can all end the discussion now that eastbank closed the case. Sure hope everyone reloads!

 

[George Dickel]

Apparently there is not enough demand for this in-between caliber or the ammo and firearm companies would be making one. Just reverse supply and demand, if there is sufficient demand there will be supply.

 

[eastbank]

getting a small reloading out fit(cheap if pick up used) would be cheaper than getting several rifles in the long run. or you could get the low powered factory ammo for the 308. however I,m in the camp of getting any and all rifles you want, I just happen to reload(since 1958) and load up or down the ammo I think I need for hunting or target shooting.

 

[LoonWulf]

Apparently there is not enough demand for this in-between caliber or the ammo and firearm companies would be making one. Just reverse supply and demand, if there is sufficient demand there will be supply.

Id have to agree.
Honestly the reason we have this plethora of 2.3-3" factory rounds is because you cant cram a .308 or similar into a light, CHEAP (you can if your willing to go with something like the 300ossm), ar-15. And because gun gamers are looking for an edge to improve scores.
The current go to option is to reduce recoil by lowering bullet weight/caliber, and usually increasing velocity some. There wouldnt be a huge draw for a 150-165 class .308 at 2500fps. Unless you crammed it into a regular ar15 frame with no special parts.

Hunters in general tend to be a pretty stayed bunch when it comes to cartridges. The .308 dominates the short action 30 cal market. Anything similar to the .308 introduced at this point marketed towqrds average hunters would likely fail. The 30RAr, amd 30tc previously mentioned didnt get any traction, the 300 savage is dead, and all were good cartridges.
I LIKE the idea of a slightly more potent than .30-30, .30 cal for short/mid range work. But again im a tinkerer and cartridge guy, ill spend 200-300 bucks extra to get a cartridge for a specific task, that ill have to load all my own ammo for.

There ARE options available like the .30-30imp, or the 30-40, but rifles are scarce. As to getting wierd stuff to mag feed, like say a 30Br (which is probably where id start), a single stack mag can almost always be made to work. Even rimmed rounds arnt too difficult as long as you dont rim lock the cases.
Might be neat to have a RAR in 30-30imp or 30-40, using a single stack 5 round mag

 

[Newtosavage]

Apparently there is not enough demand for this in-between caliber or the ammo and firearm companies would be making one. Just reverse supply and demand, if there is sufficient demand there will be supply.

I know that sounds logical, but it doesn't explain any number of recent cartridges for which I can't see a demand. I suppose "dead is dead" so folks have already a few dozen whitetail-capable calibers to choose from. Just kinda surprised someone hasn't tried to duplicate the 30-30 in a more modern firearm. But as I said, perhaps the love of the thirty cal. ain't what it used to be?

Eastbank, I'm really just wondering out loud here - for the typical Joe who doesn't reload. As popular as the .308 and 7.62x39 are, it's curious to me that someone at some time in the past 30-40 years hasn't come up with something that falls in-between.

For me personally, the 7mm-08 is my "in between" caliber and I'll probably make a .308 with an 18" barrel by the end of this summer and load it to right around 2600 fps. with 150's for a deer blind/brush rifle.

 

[Nature Boy]

I’ve read all the suggestions and I still think 30br would fit the criteria you outlined, ......if they aren’t difficult to load from a magazine.

It’s a cut down .308, more or less, with a slow twist barrel geared toward slinging low weight .30 cal bullets fast and accurate

 

[Newtosavage]

Nature Boy, looking over that round I'd say you're spot-on. I wasn't aware of the 30 BR before.

Seems a bit of a shame that anything new these days has to squeeze into the limits of an AR platform though. That just seems like such a tiny market for a hunting caliber.

 

[someguy2800]

The more I keep thinking about it I do think a 30 Grendel would be neat. Just a 7.62x39 improved loaded to 52,000 psi of the Grendel. That should give 2700 fps or so with a 125 gr ballistic tip and should work fine in an AR with Grendel mags or a Grendel bolt action like the ruger, howa, and CZ. Would be a great deer round for young shooters

 

[edmo01]

Are you searching for an effective whitetail cartridge with little to no recoil?

Want one that carries 1,000 pounds of energy out past 300 yards?

Looking for a cartridge designed to work in a standard AR and you only need to swap the barrel, bolt, and magazine?

There is a cartridge for you, the 6.5 Grendel...

It has long been said that 1,000 pounds of energy is a benchmark to be effective on whitetails. If you think about it, more than that is excess. The longest shot I’ll ever ethnically take on a whitetail is 300 yards, so more horsepower is not needed.

Below is my latest AR build chambered in 6.5 Grendel (on right). It is my dedication whitetail gun and sports a Leupold 2-7 x 33mm Fire Dot scope. Loaded with a 10 round magazine it weighs 7.8 pounds.

Do a search on the Grendel’s performance numbers... There is something magical about 6.5 bullets and the Grendel spits them out in a very efficient manner.

Edmo

 

[adcoch1]

The more I keep thinking about it I do think a 30 Grendel would be neat. Just a 7.62x39 improved loaded to 52,000 psi of the Grendel. That should give 2700 fps or so with a 125 gr ballistic tip and should work fine in an AR with Grendel mags or a Grendel bolt action like the ruger, howa, and CZ. Would be a great deer round for young shooters

I think so too, dies would be the only difficult (or expensive) part. A cz 527 American with the 22" barrel would be perfect, just make it in a 308 bore.

 

[Doc7]

I don’t really understand this question, it exists already the 308, downloaded. They are even available in factory loads called “Reduced Recoil”. Am I missing the point?

 

[LoonWulf]

The more I keep thinking about it I do think a 30 Grendel would be neat. Just a 7.62x39 improved loaded to 52,000 psi of the Grendel. That should give 2700 fps or so with a 125 gr ballistic tip and should work fine in an AR with Grendel mags or a Grendel bolt action like the ruger, howa, and CZ. Would be a great deer round for young shooters

Im not sure you could get 2700 from a 125, unless the barrel was fairly long, or you went to a higher pressure limit. The regular grendel is pushing pretty hard to get 2500 from a 20" tube with 120 class bullets.
Ill try build a cartridge profile in QL for it....thats one of the things i havent tried to figgure out yet.

I agree you and adcoch, this would probably be the easiest solution if the grendel case can get 150s to 2500.

Again practicality dictates just downloading or buying reduced recoil ammo for a .308 as has been suggested, and again i doubt well see any major manufacturer try put out a new round in this class anytime soon, BUT there is a gap there why not try fill it, conceptually if nothing else.

 

[DannyLandrum]

As mentioned, many out there, from .303 Brit to .30-40 Krag to .300 Savage, etc. Not sure where the .30 RAR falls but it can be put in a bolt action, on a custom basis. But another vote for downloading the .308 if you must stick with .30 cal.

Or, better yet (much much better), for your purposes, a smaller caliber - why not get the best of all worlds? Lower recoil and great range: .243 win, .260 rem, 6.5 creedmoor, .257 Roberts, etc. - about 100 choices in this realm of "about the same recoil as .30-30, and well-established as a long range bolt-action round" -- for good reason.

 

[TN Outlaw]

I guess its mainly because the .308 destroys anything near its performance in rifle sales. Its hard to invest the $$$ when you know it will directly compete with the '06 and 308.

Your right, even though you can download a 308, or 30-06, or 30T/C, or go with a 30BR or whatever, thats never stopped new cartridges from being introduced before. We have tons and tons of duplicated performance all throughout the different calibers so why do we not have one that fits those guidelines?

Being as its a really useable node (150gr @ 2500-2700fps) you would think there would be a 30 Deerhammer or 308 light, 7.62x45 or what have you.

 

[Newtosavage]

I guess its mainly because the .308 destroys anything near its performance in rifle sales. Its hard to invest the $$$ when you know it will directly compete with the '06 and 308.

Your right, even though you can download a 308, or 30-06, or 30T/C, or go with a 30BR or whatever, thats never stopped new cartridges from being introduced before. We have tons and tons of duplicated performance all throughout the different calibers so why do we not have one that fits those guidelines?

Being as its a really useable node (150gr @ 2500-2700fps) you would think there would be a 30 Deerhammer or 308 light, 7.62x45 or what have you.

Precisely.

We all know there are "caliber fans" out there. Personally, I'm a sucker for 7mm (.284) as a hunting bullet. Others like the .243 but some are married to their thirty's and I've heard a lot of folks wish they had an accurate modern equivalent to the beloved 30-30.

I can "nearly" get to the 30-30 level with my 7.62x39 loaded with 160 grain FTX's, but not quite. My 7.62x39 Savage will push them about 2250. My Winchester 94 will push LeverEvolution factory ammo to 2350-2400. I think a good bolt gun pushing 150's at 2500-2600 would be easy on the shoulder, accurate and as deadly as you need for anything whitetail - save the sendero or beanfield scenario.

.308's in a 7 lb. rifle might be plenty, and most folks won't mind shooting it enough to sight in, but in my experience it's a bit over the top on what folks consider "fun" to shoot.

 

[barnbwt]

7.62x45, obviously

 

[adcoch1]

7.62x45, obviously

But that stuff is GONE... I haven't seen any of that ammo for at least 10 years...

 

[marksman13]

I'm not going to argue with you. It was the "and move on with life" comment that was unnecessary. Makes me wonder why you bother really.
The same could be said for any cartridge that's been created in the past 20 years. What's the point in discussing those then?

This is a discussion forum. Maybe that's the point you missed.

A cartridge that provides a little more velocity than the 7.62x39 in an accurate platform with more tolerable recoil in a lightweight rifle than the standard .308 factory load would be used by a lot of whitetail hunters IMO. That's my point.

I honestly don't know many people whom consider the 308 to be punishing or even unpleasant in the recoil department. The 308 is often recommended for people in search of a deer rifle with low recoil. I guess that's my point. I don't know that you will find a .30 cal cartridge with significantly less recoil than a 308 that isn't giving up significant velocity (i.e. 7.62x39).

Most folks are just going to shoot light 308 loads to reduce recoil or they are going to step down to an intermediate cartridge like the 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel or 300 BLK. The 6.5 G is the only one of those that really offers a vast improvement over the x39 round. There's a reason you are having a difficult time finding the cartridge you are looking for and that's because not many people see a need for such a cartridge. Hence, the advice to just download the 308 and move on with life.

 

[Bigmike79]

Imo those rounds are too close in performance to really justify purchasing an in-between round if we're taliking about 30 caliber only.

7.62x39 with 154 grain sp ammo will kill any animal in North america providing the hunter does his part. It's good out to around 200 yards as well. If you want to go beyond those ranges you have to push that bullet a little faster = 308

If you just want something that reaches out further than 7.62x39 that doesn't have the recoil of a 308, I would suggest 243, but if we're talkin 30 calibers only, 308 is the next step imo.

 

[marksman13]

I don’t really understand this question, it exists already the 308, downloaded. They are even available in factory loads called “Reduced Recoil”. Am I missing the point?

Apparently so, but don't worry because you aren't the only one it seems...

 

[rbernie]

30BR.

http://www.6mmbr.com/30BR.html

 

[<*(((><]

7.5x54 French, have always wanted a MAS 36/51

You said in between a 7.62x39 and .308, you never said how close to a .308 we can get.