Sorting 223 Lake City brass

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kmw1954

kmw1954

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Did a quick search on this earlier today and it sort of answered my question but not fully. The question being do you sort LC brass by date on your 223 brass? I've been reading some do and some don't and the reasons why they do or don't but most of those responses have been for people reloading for an AR Platform and no real mention of how it effects bolt rifles that are being fired out to 200 yards.

Your thoughts?
 
Charlie98 said:
That is... sorting by headstamp. The date is part of the headstamp.
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Again that's why I'm asking. Many comments I read earlier were stating that the date makes no difference and that many were just sorting by headstamp name. Just as GFL also has a headstamp that is G.F.L.
 
If you do a volume test you will sort by years. There are some you can mix but if you want max accuracy you need to sort. I've been able to use the same load but I had to adj the OAL to get them to shoot the with the same accuracy. Normally all are with in 0.010" in length. There are some early years that are real heavy, lower volume that you will need to reduce the load by a couple of grains to keep the pressure down.
 
I went through a period of sorting 223 Rem/5.56 NATO cases by weight and date. It seemed like the thing to do.

But, I'm not a good enough shooter to see the difference so I stopped. Lots of time expended for little value.

I do assemble my more important loads with a single head stamp and leave the mixed head stamps for plinking ammunition. I do keep track of the important ammunition number of reloads as well.

But, if sorting cases by weight and date makes you feel better about your reloads, by all means do it. One cannot put a value on the phycological effect and you will shoot better.
 
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I can say that I have and will sort by date stamp but I'm not going to weigh them and sort. I have just recently finished prepping 400 cases. All sorted by date, de-capped, hot water washed, reamed and pockets uniformed, and sized and now waiting to be trimmed and then tumbled again before reloading.

After finishing up for the night and looking around the room I see this 223 has become an obsession as I have brass everywhere in different states of process. I really need to quit picking it up!
 
I can't see how the year dictates. The scamp markings are supposed to indicate what machine they're made on. Which means you won't have consistent cases by year because they come off different machines. And it isn't like it's the exact same brass for an entire twelve months, they must get raw materials over time. And the machines have maintenance and repair so they aren't identical throughout the year. And you have different workers on different shifts.

Wondering how a piece of 2017 brass that was made in January is supposed to have more in common with a piece made in December 2017 instead of December 2016. But then, we don't have the month stamped, just the year. I personally think that the year is a false bit of precision in the info. It doesn't tell you enough about who made the brass when, with what machine, with what alloy, and in what operating condition of the equipment. Why would everything in the same year be so much closer than everything made over the course of two years, but by the same shift, on the same machine. Someone posted that they have LC brass of the same year, but some staked and others with a circular crimp. So how absolutely and utterly consistent does a two digit number make the brass.
 
hardheart I completely understand your line of reasoning and agree it is a very valid point but right now I have LC brass that is spanning 7 years starting with 13 up to 20. For me right now I do not have an accurate measure to do a cursory check of case volume which is what really matters. Plus for now I have not shot any of this brass in my reloads to judge in real world time. And no I am not going to try and read the dots for the SCAMP Markings.
 
It’s my understanding in 2012 they changed the specs and/or criteria for 5.56 brass to match more consistently to commercial brass . Because of this most lake city brass 2012 or later is relatively consistent as far as internal case volume . I would think 300 yards or less you may not see much of a difference if you separate by year . If you plan to shoot farther than that I would separate by year .

That all said I always separate by year and I almost exclusively use Lake City brass and both 223 and 308 . For 308 Lake city brass it has variances as much as 2 grains of case volume measured by water fill from year to year . I have found Lake city 14 to be my worst lot of brass that I use in 308 .
 
I have spent some time sorting and weighing LC 5.56. So far as I can tell, within a year it's the most consistent non-premium brass I've handled. I can't prove that there's an offset between years either.

Now, the least consistent brass I've handled (PMC) is also the second most durable, and produced some fine ~MOA groups for 20+ reloading cycles.

If you aren't already pushing toward sub-MOA, I wouldn't sort years.
 
kmw1954 said:
hardheart I completely understand your line of reasoning and agree it is a very valid point but right now I have LC brass that is spanning 7 years starting with 13 up to 20. For me right now I do not have an accurate measure to do a cursory check of case volume which is what really matters. Plus for now I have not shot any of this brass in my reloads to judge in real world time. And no I am not going to try and read the dots for the SCAMP Markings.
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I get it, really. I split my brass by manufacturer so I could than do years for the NATO. Then I started wondering why does year matter. Why is it consistent longer than quarter to quarter or month to month, but not consistent over two or three years. Is there a reason for every new year's eve to cause a change in brass spec. I figure that if I can just look up the years when the contract holder/management of LC changed and when specs are actually altered then that would be a more real differentiator.

Anyone who wants to sort by year is more than welcome to, I have no qualms with anyone doing it for their own reasons. I just found that I have too many questions about it to spend the time. I'm well short of the brass I need right now anyway, so I haven't had to worry with it yet because I've only done small batches for load development.
 
hardheart said:
Anyone who wants to sort by year is more than welcome to, I have no qualms with anyone doing it for their own reasons.
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Reloading, very often, is about managing variables. Managing variances in powder drops, powder lots, primer lots, bullet weights, runout, seating depth, crimp and neck tension.... and case variances. Sorting by year is probably a small contribution to minimizing case variances... but if you eliminate as many variables as you can, well, that's all to the good. I would say, with the 5.56mm case, you probably aren't going to see huge differences, but like MetalGod mentioned... in something like .308, it can matter, and I have seen it there meself. I would have to say to the OP, assuming you don't get the results you are looking for, you would have to invest in a small lot of brand new, premium brass... and work up from there. LC brass, no matter how good it's supposed to be (and in my experience, it's not...) is still mass produced, and probably more so than any other brass headstamp available here in the US.
 
I don’t sort my 3 gun, plinking, machinegun brass by headstamp. If I get brass that’s all part of the same lot (obviously headstamp) I don’t mix them though.

Mixed brass, 55 gn FMJ stuff is what we use on steel out at our place. Put a kid behind a suppressed AR that rings the steel out that far and they can go through a lot of rounds. If I put a bunch of time into sorting by head stamp and date of manufacture, I’d likely limit their supply (fun), that’s not me. Not to mention the improvement in accuracy would be less than just using a better projectile.

If I am loading for the utmost accuracy, I don’t start with mixed brass.

That said, IF it was not any extra work for me to have brass that was even sorted by weight, I would use it that way. Why I started this project.



I’d like to get back to it some day but it’s just not that big of a factor, in most cases (pun intended). :)
 
Thank you all! Great feedback.

I get this stuff from the range I work as many of the AR Platform shooters do not bother to pick up their brass and there are days I come home with easily 1k pcs. I sort it all by 6 different headstamps; PMC, GFL, PSD, LC, non-crimped and everything else. All the everything else is being boxed up and sent to a friend in Texas for his AR's.

I keep the PMC and GFL because they are not crimped primers and are pretty plentiful at my range. The Lake City at this time I have sorted by year from 13-20 and have a few hundred pcs. of all years and was going to try and keep them together as lots. Figured the year stamp would help with that and may keep doing it just for that purpose..
 
Charlie98 said:
Reloading, very often, is about managing variables. Managing variances in powder drops, powder lots, primer lots, bullet weights, runout, seating depth, crimp and neck tension.... and case variances.
Click to expand...
Yeah, would be nice if we could get lots on the cases instead of years, but that's probably not gonna happen just to satisfy us reloaders. It would be frustrating if powder labeling went from lot numbers to just years of production. Though, they couldn't afford to do that either, since they sometimes have to recall for safety concerns. Imagine a whole year of powder having to go away for one bad run. Ugh, availability is bad enough.
 
hardheart said:
Yeah, would be nice if we could get lots on the cases instead of years, but that's probably not gonna happen just to satisfy us reloaders.
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I'm one of the few that is more likely to get brass from the same lot then if picking up range brass from random shooters . My local range is large and has 6 separate ranges on it . We rent out multiple ranges a day/week to the military , Coast guard and LEO's . This means it's likely the ammo being fired by these groups are not only coming from the same ammo can it's likely it's off the same pallet as well . So although not guaranteed I do have a better chance then most to get same lot LC brass :)
 
Good grief!
What do you do with brass head stamps that do not have a date number??
For an AR, much to do above nothing?
 
Rule3 said:
Good grief!
What do you do with brass head stamps that do not have a date number??
For an AR, much to do above nothing?
Click to expand...

The AR direction was mentioned in the original post and has nothing to do with the question. The question is in regards to bolt rifles at a distance.
All LC has a date/year stamp all other headstamps are also irrelevant to this question.
 
kmw1954 said:
The AR direction was mentioned in the original post and has nothing to do with the question. The question is in regards to bolt rifles at a distance.
All LC has a date/year stamp all other headstamps are also irrelevant to this question.
Click to expand...

OK lets say bolt action. Why would any other head stamp be irrelevant?
LC brass made in different years do you think that it will actually make a difference? It is all made to strict specifications.
If so ,what is so special about it compared to any other brass of any caliber that doesn't have a date stamp?
With all other factors involved, show us a definitive difference in something, Accuracy, velocity whatever. Prove the difference

Besides are you comparing 223 Rem or 5.56 brass?

I have a lot of Hornady brass, it has no date. Is one box better than the other?

You said it "I see this 223 has become an obsession"

Titling at Windmills here.
 
Rule3 said:
OK lets say bolt action. Why would any other head stamp be irrelevant?
LC brass made in different years do you think that it will actually make a difference? It is all made to strict specifications.
If so ,what is so special about it compared to any other brass of any caliber that doesn't have a date stamp?

Titling at Windmills here.
.
Click to expand...

Because if you followed the title of this thread you would read Lake City, not Hornady, Federal, Speer, Winchester or any other brand.

Lastly there is no need for YOU to be "Tilting at Windmills here", if you are not interested in what other have to say then why follow this thread?
 
Did a quick search on this earlier today and it sort of answered my question but not fully. The question being do you sort LC brass by date on your 223 brass? I've been reading some do and some don't and the reasons why they do or don't but most of those responses have been for people reloading for an AR Platform and no real mention of how it effects bolt rifles that are being fired out to 200 yards.

Your thoughts?


kmw1954 said:
Because if you followed the title of this thread you would read Lake City, not Hornady, Federal, Speer, Winchester or any other brand.

Lastly there is no need for YOU to be "Tilting at Windmills here", if you are not interested in what other have to say then why follow this thread?
Click to expand...

You sort of asked a nebulous question. Which appears you already have your mind made up. You also did not identify if you are asking about 223 or 5.56 brass. And it is you seeking and answer to a very minor issue of brass variance by year stamp If there was no year stamp then what to worry about??
You are sorting by year stamp, and feel that will make a difference in something? What I have no idea. You got the brass as range brass so have to idea how many times it's been reloaded?. Once fired, twice??
You are not going to weigh the brass or measure the volume. You have not done any statistical tests, What about the actual bullet, primer, and powder /loads? All those will make more of a difference and more so what rifle and shooter skills

You asked for
"thoughts"
LC brass does not vary that much year to year, it is all very specific and controlled

So to end this, My thought is it is not going to make a hill of beans difference if you use year 13 or year 17. Or simply, a big to do over nothing.

But of course feel free to do what ever you want.
 
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