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Source for larger lead RB?

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Third_Rail

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Jan 10, 2004
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Hello all, I'm looking for larger (1", 1.25" and 1.5" diameter) lead RB. Are there any sources, or am I out of luck on this?


EDIT: To clarify, I've found molds, but no premade lead balls. Do you think that noone makes them due to shipping costs/getting damaged in transport?
 
Hm, I may have to... I'd rather not handle lead too much, but how often would one fire a 1" bore rifle anyway?! :D
 
I'm guessing you want some cannon fodder. Check your local fishing supply, they might have them for weights.
 
I think you'll have a hard time finding roundballs bigger than the size for a Brown Bess (10 Gauge). Dixie Gun Works or the Log Cabin Shop might have 10 and 12 Ga roundballs. Unless you have a little cannon, you won't find the ballistics too appealing. 12 Gauge roundballs in a double barrel would make an interesting back-up gun for those with steel nerves and a gun with good ignition qualities. I've shot some in a BP double barrel, and up close, they are a force to be reckoned with.

In the African Ivory hunting days, a 4-Bore was quite common. I remember a biography of one such Ivory hunter, 'Col. Something or another', who was well regarded for his courage and marksmanship. He noted that he seriously regretted having fired the 4-bores, for he developed significant flinch that took him some time to overcome. Such rifles were solidly built, heavy, stout, and often loaded with charges that approached 1 to 1 weight of ball to powder. If you consider the weight in grains of a 4-bore (4 balls to the pound), it doesn't seem safe in this day and age. They would approach an elephant on foot, leading a horse, shoot a large bull, the mount the horse and gain some distance while reloading.

Personally, beyond .62 Caliber or so, it takes a LOT of powder to generate enough velocity to have a decent MPBR.

For lead, try hospital x-ray rooms for shielding, sources for lead pipe (plumber supply), and some lead sheeting is used for roofs. (Also underwater cable shielding). Soft lead is much more important for a muzzleloader, so the round ball obturates. Wheel weights are too hard.

Dixie Gun works will make molds to a specified size, but they are rather crude.

On the positive side of things, a big soft heavy lead projectile moving at moderate speeds has power that numbers alone do adequately portray.
 
Well, I figure that out of a 54" bbl, a 1" RB is going to do a bit of damage... but out of a 40 lb rifle, it should be manageable.


I guess I'll have to go the casting route if noone else has any ideas. Thanks so far!
 
Are you making a barrel yourself? I'd go for 4140 or something strong for that bore...not iron.

Just as a point check this link . Near the bottom of the page, shown near an elephant's skull are some cartridges.

Notice how dinky the 4-Bore cartridge is. 1.5" would be very, very significant. A 20 lb Ivory gun would not have been outlandish. I dunno what a 1.5" ball weighs, but the ratio could be such that even 40 lbs would not reduce recoil to the point it is not significant.

You may want to look at the guns used to shoot harpoons in the olden days. I think they shot 2-3lb projectiles (the spear tips). Some were hand held.
 
The 1" bore is going to be the shoulder fired, the rest are wheel mounted cannons.



The pressures involved will be sensible, not enough to truly pop my fillings out. The barrel may have to be thicker than the 3/4" that I'm thinking of, though, since I'm using relatively weak metal.


But heck, if they could do it in 1760, I can do it now.
 
I'll be using 4140 afterall, though the barrel will be only 4 feet or so, not the full 54". I think 1/2" wall thickness should be enough with it. 2"x3' bar stock, here I come!


10lbs/foot before working... 40lbs of metal. Should be about 32lbs for a bbl when I'm done.


EDIT: Where can I look up if this will even hold together without heat treatment?
 
You're a braver man than I.

Just so you know what I'm thinking. I did a little math. A 1" roundball is 1502.6 Grains. Whatever you hit with that, that the ball doesn't go through, will be ripped off it's mounts. You could hunt Impala with that...you know, '60s V-8 Chevy Impala!

The 1.5" roundball is 5071.275 Grains :what:
 
Sounds great! :D :D

I think, once finished, I'll brace the "rifle" against a heavy (50-75 lbs) steel block, lash/fix it in place, and fire it from many feet back more than once to make sure it's not going to go boom.

I'm hoping for 600-1000 fps out of this. That'll do plenty. :D

To clarify: 1/4oz black powder - 3/16 oz is less than the recommended charge with a round ball. That's for a soft, cast iron cannon with wall thickness of 1/2". I'm fairly certain that I'll be fine.


Maybe I'll make a test rifle with a barrel of 12" first and heat treat that to make sure.
 
A 40 pound rifle shooting a 1500 grain round ball at 600-1000fps will have a recoil velocity of about 3.5-5.5 fps. That's 7.6 to 18.8 ft-lbs.

For comparison, an 8 pound shotgun firing Remington 3" Buckhammer slugs (600 grains at 1500 fps) recoils at ~18 fps, for 40.3 ft-lbs. With a light 1 ounce shot load at 1300 fps, 11 fps and 15 ft-lbs.

Your gun idea sounds plenty controllable to me.
 
That's good news!

I had calculated that as well, from Buffalo Bullets or somesuch.


Now that I found another forum where they know the correct wall thicknesses, etc., I should be a-ok with this!
 
Come now, one of those Knight muzzleloaders with 3 pyrodex pellets and a puny saboted pistol bullet kicks more than that!

Actually, you may have stated the wrong numbers from the calculation (see link below). You're looking for free recoil energy. With a 40lb gun, 1502.6 Gr Roundball, 200-ish Gr of powder to get to 1000 fps the recoil is 47.27 ft/lbs.

You can calculate it on this link Plug in the numbers I used to verify...

Note that in the 8lb 'sporter' version, and assuming a powder charge of 200-ish grains to get 1000 fps and a 1502.6 Gr roundball the recoil energy in foot lbs is 236.34.

EDIT: Hmmm...I think we have a discrepancy on the web sites. Although still significantly higher than the previous poster (Ryan M) mentioned, this site lists lower numbers. Even so, check out the 'sporter ' version of this rifle. I tend to believe the second site might have calculated recoil in the ballpark, based on accounts of those firing 8 and 4 bores. The gun weight helps a lot, but heavy projectiles dish out the recoil.

I think we need to check our sources (myself included).
 
My calcs were based solely on the momentum of the bullet, with a small (1-5 fps or so) addition for muzzle blast. No online thing or anything. Since Third Rail said his load was less than what was recommended by some source, I assumed muzzle blast wouldn't be enough to add very considerably.
 
Rapine Bullet Mold Company in Greenville, Pennsylvania will make any diameter you want. If you can't find them, try a deep sea fishing shop. I remember my uncles casting weights that were 1" or greater in diameter.
 
FYI...the owner of Rapine is retiring. (Threads on the muzzleloader mailing list about this.) Rapine made quality stuff, but it looks like that horse has already left the barn.
 
I actually found instructions on making a ball mold, and I have a source for a .98" ball endmill. Looks like I'm set to work, now to get that machine time! :)
 
Seems like I saw large RB moulds in an old Dixie Gun Works catalog. Those made a golf ball sized lead ball. They also used to sell these heavy hair irons that you could make your own moulds from. I think one of those could handle a 1" ball nose cutter. Dixie cut me a .490" one on the spot while I checked out thier store one day.

As far as casting lead yourself, just wear some good protection (safety glasses, long shirt, gloves) and do your casting and smelting outside on a clear day.
 
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