Soviet Afghan vet's comments on Afghan warrior culture

[MatthewVanitas]

Spent part of today hanging out with an Afghan vet. He's an ethnic Tajik who served as a translator with the Soviet Army in Afghanistan back in the '80s. The Tajik language is almost the same as Afghan Dari (like British vs. American English, but different alphabets), so it was common for folks out of the Tajik SSR to fill that role. He was good at his job, so was trained in Pushtun (the other Afghan language).

Here's his summary of the culture of the Pushtuns, the mountain tribes who live on the Afghan/Pakistan border area, and are the source of most historical hassles for Greek/Brit/Russian/NATO alike:

The Pashtu is always armed, it's simply fundamental. If he's poor, he has a "bur", which is what they call the English three-hundred-and-three rifle. If he has some money he has a Kalashnikov. If he's rich he has an M-16, or an AKSU, or maybe a grenade launcher. He takes it everywhere with him, out on the streets of the city even.

He wears a webbing across his chest with magazines in it, maybe some grenades on the sides. Russians called it a "bra", but the Pushtu all wear it. They decorate them with flowers, or bits of mirror, or anything that looks good. They also carve the buttstocks of their rifles, put designs or flowers on them. He straps on all his war gear... and then he goes to the market to buy potatoes.

They also dye the fronts of their hands red with hennah, like women do. Also they darken around their eyes with a powder ground from stone, like women. They carry a special decorated box of chewing-tobacco with them, and chew that all the time. In the lid of the box is a mirror, so you'll see them squatting down by the roadside with their rifle, looking at themselves in the mirror and preening. It's like they have aspects of both man and women.

They're vicious though, and talk about nothing but fighting. On the street, or at home with their families, they just talk about fighting. "You should have see the battle over at such-and-such ten years ago! It was amazing!" "You call that a battle? That was nothing, you should have been in Mazzar-el-Sharif last year, that was a fight!"

When they fight, if the other side kills one of theirs, they absolutely must kill one of the other side in revenge. It's blood for blood, and they will not rest until they're avenged.

That's Pashtu culture.

I haven't been to Afghanistan myself, so count vouch for veracity, but that's one man's opinion.

 

[buck00]

Interesting stuff.

There were a lot of people upset when Musharraf cut deals with the local tribal leaders in the Pashtun region (along the border with Afghanistan). That is where the Taliban and Bin Laden hide out. However, the interesting thing- the British had to do the same thing when they tried to rule the region.

 

[230RN]

Apart from insitutionalized and governmental murder, it makes me wonder what the "street" crime rate was with all those folks running around armed to the teeth.

Interesting blurring of gender characteristics, which he seemed to dwell on. I guess there are no "absolutes," eh? Kind of reminds me of the Greek soldiers' skirts.

This business of trivial differences in tribal/religious practices also reminds me of the Star Trek episode where two warring factions on some planet were fighting because one group was black on the left side and white on the other. The opposing group was black on the right side, white on the left.

Captain Kirk could not discern any difference between the two opposing sides until the "difference" was pointed out to him by one of the planet's inhabitants.

"Why, Captain, isn't it obvious? They're black on the left side!"

 

[Correia]

Interesting blurring of gender characteristics,

Ask anybody that has served in Afghanistan about Man Love Thursday...

 

[Hoppy590]

im sorry Correia. but that just seems like it should be a button worn on the uniform of a waiter

Ask me about our Man Love Thursdays!...

 

[buzz_knox]

Ask anybody that has served in Afghanistan about Man Love Thursday...

Would that have anything to do with the British contingent who found themselves in the mountains of Afghanistan being propositioned by a village of dress (in the sense of women's apparel) wearing men?

 

[Dannavyret]

One thing for sure about Afghans, they will fight to the death for the smallest pebble in that country and when you make a friend of an Afghan, you have one for life. When I was stationed at NAS Whidbey Island in the mid-90's there was a 1st class Aviation Structural Mechanic named Masjed. (Mas-ched) who's family escaped the country during the Soviet occupation. He lost two of 6 brothers to the Russians and I have never known a better person.

Most of the wretched filth we're fighting there are "foreign" scum as Masjed calls them. Saudis, Kuwaitis, Syrians, Iranians, Pakistanis, Kashmiries...all high on Allah and wanting to die for the Kalifi and the 72 virgins. Masjed gets letters every now and then from a relative in Kandahar. The Afghans themselves are not taking many prisoners, in fact they bring back more severed heads. They have no love and certainly no respect for the lives of the Taliban and their fellow vermin.

We certainly want to remain on the good side of the Afghans because we will regret the day we ever really tick them off.

 

[Cosmoline]

Keep in mind this is a Tajik talking about Pashtun. Calling them womanly is pretty much par for the course, as they are ancient enemies. Locals said as much about the Brits because they shaved their beards.

Would that have anything to do with the British contingent who found themselves in the mountains of Afghanistan being propositioned by a village of dress (in the sense of women's apparel) wearing men?

That actually did happen, but it was in Oxford.

 

[El Tejon]

Thank you for the report, MV.

But minor pet peeve if I may: Pashto is the langauge, Pashtun is the people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashto

(see what reading too much Kipling at an early age has done to me).

 

[Zoogster]

I saw some interesting articles and a video on just that culture. It truly is remarkable. The Pakistan/Afghanistan border still has much of this culture. Keep in mind modern borders in many nations do not accurately portray cultural lines, so the region on both sides of the border is very much the same.

Unfortunately due to current American politics and military activites going to such a location to experience the culture would likely be a death sentence. If you happened to make it back safely you would probably be charged with some terrorist offense by your own country as many of the people in that culture are connected in some way with people that actualy fight a war someplace, and you would have to answer for why you went there.
Bin Laden is believed to be in that very region.

It is truly a free culture, where respect and honor are of the utmost importance, and freedom and liberty is valued above everything, even large sums of money. It is all about loyalty to tribe, to family, and fighting for ideals. That is why even with multi million dollar bounties on people's heads in a location that most make a fraction of what we do per year, nobody says anything. Money cannot buy freedom or honor.

Here is an interesting video of the region, this is on the pakistani side but its all the same. The guy is a bit of an anti, and not very knowlesdgeable about guns as can be seen through his unsafe handling, but the insight is good nontheless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M

While we hunt down our targets these are the people who our bombs kill as collateral damage. We pressure thier government to crack down on them, and they despise us for it. So we still make new enemies of this culture every day. A real shame because it means we can never visit it. Still an interesting study.
This is also the main ethnicity of the Taliban supporters. Pashtun.
The way of life is not that much different from that during the birth of our nation in the time of our founding fathers when we had battles with natives, wars with the British, and struggle and strife all around. When women were mainly home makers and caretakers expected to stay home and raise children and instill values, men went out and worked and fought, people had large families, and people made most of what they used themselves. The religion is different, the year is different, but the way of life is very similar.
We want to modernize them and make them submissive and accept the pecking order of the world (with our say on top), they hate us for it. We cannot just leave them alone because they plot and plan ways to thwart us to stall modernization. Many such plots involve guerrilla tactics or "terrorism" as they have no way of actualy standing toe to toe with the most modern powerful militaries on earth.
Its like a time warp and seeing people and ideals of a few hundred years ago trying to fight us. Its like what fighting early Americans would have been like.

 

[Mr Kablammo]

Matt, good to hear from you. Things have changed at the range, you may have heard. Alas, the range is a victim of success and lawyers.

The psychological blend of masculine and decorative is not limited to the Pashtun. The samurai would attend incense parties, write poetry, and so on. The kamikazee compared themselves to cherry blossoms, of all things. It seems the fierceness needs an off-setting balance of beauty or feminity. The uniforms of the early Civil War period were 'fashionable' or even foppish. Yet the fierceness of the combat...

Frequently the mutilation of corpses seems to be linked to a feminine psychological aspect of the mutililator. Perhaps it is the violation of the feminine psychological element that provides the basis for a transformed energy of violence. Or maybe the career that is involved with the gruesome of war needs compensation in appreciation of the aesthetic...

Oxford? Sir, that is droll.

 

[Bart Noir]

too much Kipling

LT, that is an oxymoron. As in, self-contradicting.

Bart Noir
Who now has an urge to go read about the "Fore and Aft".

 

[shecky]

The guy is a bit of an anti, and not very knowlesdgeable about guns as can be seen through his unsafe handling, but the insight is good nontheless.

Looks like everyone over there takes the casual approach to gun handling convention.