Speakin' of Dying Cartridges...

[Goosey]

Yall dont know what your talking about!!!!!

It AINT a Magnum unless its has Magnum in the name....like the 222 Remington Magnum or the 224 Weatherby Magnum....Even the Lapua or 50 bmgs arent Magnums.
That's why I can tell people my .375 Ruger isn't bad to shoot, cause hey it's not a "Magnum"!!!!




*Hides*

According to Norma's pages on .338 Win Mag, "Due to the ratio between the case capacity and the bullet diameter of the .338 it is not a true magnum", because according to Norma "it will not be at its best with the slowest burning powders".

 

[adcoch1]

According to Norma's pages on .338 Win Mag, "Due to the ratio between the case capacity and the bullet diameter of the .338 it is not a true magnum", because according to Norma "it will not be at its best with the slowest burning powders".

It's got magnum in the name and wears a belt. I think it's a magnum...

 

[LoonWulf]

According to Norma's pages on .338 Win Mag, "Due to the ratio between the case capacity and the bullet diameter of the .338 it is not a true magnum", because according to Norma "it will not be at its best with the slowest burning powders".

Obviously, Norma has no idea what they are talking about either!!!!! I mean DUH! Europeans dont know anything about guns......


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All kidding aside the definition of "Magnum" is pretty bloody arbitrary....IS the 222 Remington Magnum a Magnum? is the .338 Not? what about the Ruger, Nosler, and all the other "None Magnum" Magnums.
Tho in comparison to some cartridge nomenclature, i guess Magnums not TOO confusing....I just had to explain to a friend of mine who IS a gun guy about the .357, 38Special, and .38 S&W bullets and why we wanted a .361dia bullet for any of them....also why I can shoot .350 legend bullets out of my 9mm revolver....

 

[natman]

These are discontined Winchester rifles, yes?

- 7mm-08 - 22" (THIS PRODUCT IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION. Last Catalog Year: 2016)
- 300 WSM - 24" (THIS PRODUCT IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION. Last Catalog Year: 2016)
- 325 WSM - 24" (THIS PRODUCT IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION. Last Catalog Year: 2016)
- 25-06 - 22" (THIS PRODUCT IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION. Last Catalog Year: 2016)
- 264 Win Mag - 26" (THIS PRODUCT IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION. Last Catalog Year: 2016)
- 7mm Rem Mag - 26" (THIS PRODUCT IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION. Last Catalog Year: 2016)

I checked and https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle lists the ammo.

Again, Winchester stopped offering those cartridges IN ONE MODEL. You can still get them in OTHER Winchester rifles, just not the Model 70 Extreme Weather SS.

 

[CraigC]

"Magnum" is just a marketing term.

 

[Garandimal]

Never thought of a 270 Win as a Magnum, just a full-power long-action bottleneck rifle cartridge. The 7mm Remington Magnum always seemed to be where the Magnums started IMHO...

Depends on the context.

In 1925...?

Compared to the 6.5x55mm/7x57mm/.30-06...? It was a high pressure/velocity cartridge, on par w/ the .300 H&H.




GR

 

[mcb]

Depends on the context.

In 1925...?

Compared to the 6.5x55mm/7x57mm/.30-06...? It was a high pressure/velocity cartridge, on par w/ the .300 H&H.




GR

It's only slight higher pressure ~4-8% over 30-06 depending on if we are looking at the original crusher spec or the more modern transducer spec. They both use the same case, so there is no real case volume difference it's just necked down 1/32" more.

270 WCF falls well short of 300 H&H performances. 300 H&H feels a Magnum to me. 270 WCF is a roughly 2700 ft-lb muzzle energy rifle. 300 H&H ups that by nearly 40% with 3700 ft-lbs from many of it's common loads.

 

[Garandimal]

It's only slight higher pressure ~4-8% over 30-06 depending on if we are looking at the original crusher spec or the more modern transducer spec. They both use the same case, so there is no real case volume difference it's just necked down 1/32" more.

270 WCF falls well short of 300 H&H performances. 300 H&H feels a Magnum to me. 270 WCF is a roughly 2700 ft-lb muzzle energy rifle. 300 H&H ups that by nearly 40% with 3700 ft-lbs from many of it's common loads.

Objectively in 1925?

The 6.5x55mm/7x57mm MAP was 51K psi.

The .30-06 was 60K psi.

The .270 WIN was 65K psi... greater than even the .264 WinMag, .270 Weatherby mag, and 7mm RM.

... and equal to the 7mm Weatherby mag.

With std. load velocities of 3160 fps(130 gr.) as opposed to 2800 fps(M2).

A Magnum - just not one considered noteworthy today.




GR

 

[d2wing]

Some magnums are larger or more powerful versions of the parent cartridge as in .357 magnum. Or named as a magnum by it's inventor usually superior in energy to standard cartridges in that caliber. The 270 WCF doesn't meet any definition of magnum. An internet poster doesn't define what a magnum is. A person is entitled to an opinion. But people are also entitled to form an opinion of how credible those opinions are.

 

[Garandimal]

Some magnums are larger or more powerful versions of the parent cartridge as in .357 magnum. Or named as a magnum by it's inventor usually superior in energy to standard cartridges in that caliber. The 270 WCF doesn't meet any definition of magnum. An internet poster doesn't define what a magnum is. A person is entitled to an opinion. But people are also entitled to form an opinion of how credible those opinions are.

They didn't need to.

Because, like "tactical"... people back then were impressed by the performance advantage over the std. cartridges of the day, and not the marketing hype.




GR

 

[mcb]

Objectively in 1925?

The 6.5x55mm/7x57mm MAP was 51K psi.

The .30-06 was 60K psi.

The .270 WIN was 65K psi... greater than even the .264 WinMag, .270 Weatherby mag, and 7mm RM.

... and equal to the 7mm Weatherby mag.

With std. load velocities of 3160 fps(130 gr.) as opposed to 2800 fps(M2).

A Magnum - just not one considered noteworthy today.




GR

In the 1920's when 270 Winchester and 300 H&H where created the peizo transducer was not yet invented. They only used the copper crusher measurement system. With that measurement system in 1920's they thought this was PSI and reported it as such. The CUP units where not used until the 1970s to distinguish the old crusher method from the new Transducer system.

In the 1920's and still valid today using the crusher measurement method

30-06 is 50,000 CUP

270 WCF is 52,000 CUP

300 H&H is 54,000 CUP

Again I like 270 Win but it will never be a Magnum IMHO, I don't think O'Connor thought it was either...

 

[Goosey]

In the 1920's and still valid today using the crusher measurement method

30-06 is 50,000 CUP

270 WCF is 52,000 CUP

300 H&H is 54,000 CUP

Again I like 270 Win but it will never be a Magnum IMHO, I don't think O'Connor thought it was either...

That's the American loading. The British loading for the 300 was a lot less intense.

 

[Goosey]

This will make Garandimal happy. I ran across this in John Taylor's "African Rifles and Cartridges". There's the .270.

 

[Robert]

We seem to have wandered off deep into the weeds. Sussing out what is, or is not a magnum is all fine and good, but could be a stand alone thread. Not buried 7 pages deep in a thread that appeared to start out as what chamberings Winchester no longer offers.