Speer 124 grain TMJ bullets... Are they really Jacketed or just plated?

[Schwing]

Earlier today I was in my local Cal-Ranch. They had 3 boxes of Speer 124 grain TMJ bullets on clearance for $55 per box of 600. Normally, I cast my own but, high lead levels have made me back down for awhile so I picked these up. I figured they are TMJ bullets so they won't be as big of a deal as shooting cast.

Anyway, a buddy is telling me that these are not jacketed at all but that they are just plated bullets. Is this correct? On Speer's sight, they say they are jacketed. On other sights, people claim they are plated. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Also, my 92fs barrel is a bit oversize (.358) which was the reason I started casting my own in the first place. I am assuming that, if they are plated, that they are not going to obdurate any better than cast are so accuracy will be an issue.

I would be grateful to any of you folks with first-hand experience with these if you can share your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[gamestalker]

To describe the Speer TMJ's as just plated, is not putting into it's proper perspective category.

A standard plated bullet has a very thin plating that limits it's ability to be loaded to jacketed pressures / velocities. However, they are indeed a plated bullet, but this is not the case with the Speer TMJ part # 3993, which has a thick plating, and is made to be fully capable of being loaded and treated the same as any jacketed projectile. So to answer your question, Speer TMJ's are intended to be treated the same as any jacketed projectile.

I load them to full +p levels using Longhot and HS6, no worries.

GS

 

[rcmodel]

+1

I do not believe Speer makes any conventional 'jacketed' pistol bullets any longer.

They electroplate the jackets on every handgun bullet they make now.

That includes the most excellent Speer Gold-Dot JHP, and the TMJ.

But as gamestalker said.
These are not to be confused with lower velocity 'plated bullets' as sold by Berry, Rainier, etc.

Speer plated bullets are in another class by themselves when it comes to how hard you can push them.

rc

 

[LiveLife]

Thickness of copper plating - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8499419#post8499419

Speer TMJ: .015"
Berry's Thick Plated (TP): .012"
PowerBond: .010"-.011"
Berry's Regular: .0035"-.006"-.008"
Rainier: .004"

Jay Phillips from Berry's MFG - http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4124526#post4124526

Depending on caliber our [Berry's] plating is no less than .006" and goes up to .012" thick.

Speer TMJ bullets are a plated bullet with an even thicker plating coming close to a jacket at about .015" in thickness.
________________
Jay R. Phillips
Berry's MFG

 

[gamestalker]

Awesome information there BDS, and very useful!

GS

 

[Potatohead]

Agree, great info there. No Xtreme plating measurements?

 

[Schwing]

Thanks for the info guys! Hopefully I will get a chance to get some loaded up this week. Being able to use data for jacketed bullets will help.

 

[NOMI WASP]

Another thing about the TMJ bullet, there is no exposed lead on the back end of the round like traditional FMJ's. I believe some feel this leads to less lead exposure. Great round

 

[Schwing]

I kind of shelved these and didn't dedicate any time to them until this weekend. Man! I forgot how pleasant it is to load bullets without worrying about swaging/shaving them down or having to clean my dies every few dozen rounds to keep the lube build up from screwing with my OAL.

Don't get me wrong, I love casting bullets and using them and I like powder coated bullets a lot but it sure is a lot simpler to just buy jacketed/plated bullets. No muss, no fuss.

I got my hands on some power pistol so I thought I would give that a try. I started at 5.1 and worked up to 5.7 grains. I won't get a chance to test them until Saturday but am pretty confident there will be a an accurate load in there.

I would be curious if any of you who have used these bullets have a pet load that serves you well.

 

[rsrocket1]

Schwing,
Make sure you are very careful with your reloading techniques. Casting should not cause excessive lead levels unless you are not careful with the dross and lead oxides associated with casting. Reloading can expose you to lead if you don't properly handle the dust that comes from tumbling the cases (wet or dry) and especially how you handle used primers which contain the combustion products of lead styphnate. Handling lead bullets should not be any more risky than handling fully plated bullets.

 

[Schwing]

Believe me, I know this. I actually have resorted to using a lead/asbestos respirator when handling lead at all, even when just loading and shooting. I also wear gloves. I have designed several sealed disposal methods for dross as well as primers.

Believe me, I take far more precautions than anyone I shoot with but still hover around 15. It is far better than the high 40s I was seeing before making these changes. Per Doctor and research recommendations, I have also changed my diet, lost nearly 50 pounds and started taking anti-oxidant supplements.

I discussed this with my doctor at length. It is his experience that some folks can almost chew lead and never absorb it while others seem prone to absorbing every molecule. In some ways, I am not sorry I have this problem. It has encouraged me to make lifestyle changes that I probably would not have taken otherwise.

 

[LiveLife]

I would be curious if any of you who have used these bullets have a pet load that serves you well.

I have used both Speer TMJ (Total Metal Jacket trademarked by ATK/Speer now Vista Outdoor) and Gold Dot HP bullets. Due to thicker copper plating (.015"), I have used jacketed load data with good results (even when pushed to near max/max load data) when regular thickness plated bullets (.0035"-.008") start to lose accuracy above mid range jacketed load data.

Speer TMJ are not cheap and found "thicker plated" bullets from different vendors (Berry's/PowerBond now under Highborn Outdoors/RMR/X-Treme) that range from .012"-.014" perform well with jacketed load data at much lower cost. IMO, Berry's thick plated hollow base RN bullets outperform Speer TMJ in accuracy and currently buy RMR thick plated bullets (Hardcore Match bullets due to harder 11-12 BHN lead alloy core) as my primary stock for plated bullets due to lower cost (you get 5% THR discount and free shipping) and level of accuracy I get from them (I use jacketed load data).

I am gearing up to do comparison carbine testing with jacketed/plated/coated bullets in 9mm/40S&W/45ACP out of 16" JR carbine so looking forward to accuracy testing at 25/50+ yards.

Things are changing for the plated bullet industry as more manufacturers offer thicker plated bullets rated to 1500 fps (compared to 1250-1300 fps for regular plated) and now Berry's MFG offers thicker plated pistol/rifle bullets rated to 1900-2000 fps - https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q10-c1-How_fast_can_I_shoot_these_bullets.aspx

 

[gamestalker]

I run them full tilt with Longshot all the time, they are a jacketed where data is concerned, IMO.

GS