Spliced in a hornady lnl into my Uniflow

[Peter M. Eick]

I got tired of having to make the choice between a powder lock out die and a redding profile crimper on my 5 station Pro2000. The problem is that on the Pro2000 you need to expand and prime in one step and dispense powder in another. I figured eventually RCBS would go the way of Dillon and Hornady in terms of expansion and powder dispense in one step but a few days ago I gave up on them.

I ordered a hornady LNL powder dispenser bracket and the expansion dies. I then pulled a spare Uniflow off the shelf (nice to have extras of things), swapped out the big micrometer die for a small one and then setup the LNL bracket and setup to replace the RCBS bracket. I had to adjust it a bit but in the end I now have the powder dispense and expansion on station 2 right above the prime station.

With the auto feed of the pro2000, I can now prime on the down stroke, and then expand and dispense powder on the next up stroke. This freed up station 3 for my powder lockout die. I have two of them so I can just swap for the big or little feet.

The advantage of this is that I can now seat and crimp as two separate steps and add a powder lock out die to every round I make instead of some of them.

I wonder why RCBS never did this????? It seems so obvious to me. All it took was money and a bit of tinkering.

Now if RCBS would just make a 7 or 9 station full auto progressive pro2010 I would be really happy!

I will add that the Hornady is much rougher finished then my old uniflow bracket, but maybe that is the 250,000 rounds I made with it. I guess it will wear in over the next few years.

 

[dirtman]

Peter, me thinks your onto something... When are u going to post some photos...... as they are worth a thousand words..

 

[Walkalong]

Yea, pics man, pics!

Sometimes you just have to grab the bull by the horns. I modified my LNL to work with my 10X measure. I'll probably use the LNL measure for medium rifle, but will probably just make the three extra parts I need for my BR 30 measure to work to use for small rifle.

 

[Remo-99]

you sound like a bit of an 'improver-ist'(if there is such a word) to me. lol.

Don't ya just hate it when manufacters don't make something to meet the exact needs and ya go redesign it or take the best things of a range of manufactures and combine them ya'self.

Good going, though.

 

[Jonah]

Pro2000

Peter,
Your solution works. As you know.
However, if you have a lathe, a replacement drop tube can be made for the Uniflow to do the same thing as Hornady, Dillon and Lee do. If the drop tube is made to take the Lyman Multi-Expand die tips, the drop tube will work on many different cartridges. I have homemade drop tubes on three Uniflows.
I proposed to RCBS at least five years ago to make this type of drop tube available for the Uniflow, but to no avail. Even offered to send them my drawing. Of course they didn't need it, but I offered.
Oh well, those without lathes can just give their business to Hornady.

 

[SteveW-II]

I think that a kind of reseller contract must exist between Hornady and RCBS. For example, the Hornady 50 BMG kit looks like it's based on the RCBS Ammomaster. The LNL Powder Measure and the RCBS Uniflow and the case operated linkage all look the same to me.

So, if that is the case it wouldn't surprise me if the contract didn't include product restrictions on getting (a) to work with (b) or (c), if you see what I mean. I work in an industry where such contract clauses are very common. It's not that the engineers are blind to the opportunity, just restricted by the contract..

In the case of powder measures that also expand the case while dropping powder, I think that is a Lee patent, so Hornady may pay royalty to Lee for their expander parts, while RCBS do not.. It's a messy world out there when a reseller 'product improves' a device with otherwise patented design improvements.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Here is my old unflow with the RCBS set up next to the new sliced together hornaday setup. I spliced in the hornady because I had the hardware sitting on the bench. I had the extra uniflow that I occasionally use and the small micrometer drum so what the heck.

Here is the installation showing it actually installed. It took some fiddling to get the right stroke so it would completely open and closing but once you see how it works it only takes a few tries to make it work.

Here is the lockout die that I really wanted to have in the system. I just am getting paranoid after 250,000 rounds that I am "due" for a double charge. My solution was to either go only fluffy powders that would fill the case or get a lock out die as a check for my visual observation. I like the crimp and seat as a separate step over the combined and you cannot put all those dies into the pro2000 with 5 stages.

Not to belittle my Pro2000 because it has served me well for nearly a decade, but I never liked the 5 stations because it is too limited. I would prefer a 7 or 9 station press, out of steel, with no floppy aluminum top plate. I think it should just be machined into the steel and we can then set the dies up as we see fit. I realize that some of that slop is intentional, but still it bothers me.

By doing what I did, I can now use the hornady expanders for all of my primary calibers (no 30 carbine expander yet, so I will have to go back for that) and keep a lockout die on station 4. I have two lockout dies so I just swap them and that works quite well.

It is too bad that RCBS did not do this for the pro2000. I had a lot of mixed feelings about this and seriously considered switching to the hornady press instead, but the costs of switching over for so many calibers made this a cheaper solution. I am pretty married to the pro2000, so I did not want to make an incremental step. Besides, the thought of abandoning my APS system for tubes was so abhorrent that I could not do it.

My next press needs to have a lot more dies holes. My thought was a universal de-capper first, a lube die, then a size die (no decapper) then a primer/expand, then powder dispense, then lockout, then seat, then crimp (redding profile crimer generally) and possibly an FCD in "some" cases. This gives me a 9 station progressive that if it were made of steel and had an APS it would be perfect.

So now you see the solution. Next thing we need to work on is a case feeder or a bullet feeder. Probably the case feeder would be easier. I remember some clone of RCBS or RCBS was doing one. I remember a youtube video showing it.

 

[Walkalong]

Great pics.

I see now that I could have done that with my Redding measure. Never occured to me. I may look into it. I can machine the piece I need to go inside and work the mechanism and drop powder.

Excellent job Peter.

 

[dirtman]

Great job Peter,

and the pics sure make it easy to understand.... thanks

 

[EddieNFL]

Hello all. This thread was linked on another site and I'm looking for info.

Mr. Eick, you mentioned having the hardware available to assemble the Hornady/RCBS hybrid. Can you describe what is needed and were any modifications required. TIA.

Oddly, Hornady says the linkage will not work with their older measures (which I have three of ).

Eddie

 

[Peter M. Eick]

You need a rcbs Uniflow spare dispenser which I have a few laying around. You need a micrometer cylinder and then the hornady die and linkage assembly which can be picked up from midway. Also you need the different expanders for each caliber.

Now disassemble your uniflow. Put it into the hornady assembly and trial fit the linkage elevation. This took me some time to adjust the height of the linkages to get the dispenser to full cycle and dispense the powder. I just played with it a bit.

I find that it dispenses well, works very easily with the Pro2000 with the auto feed and wonder why RCBS dad not do this in the first place.

No regrets on this end.

If you have questions, PM me. I will be "offline" for a while on work so I won't hit this site for a while.

 

[EddieNFL]

Thanks for the info. I have a couple of Uniflows...somewhere.

 

[MCMXI]

This is an older thread (I checked the box) but I found it very useful so I'm going to post a reply just in case someone else finds it useful too. I've been using a Redding 10X on my RCBS PiggyBack II for the past year or so but had to modify the linkage considerably to get it to work. It works well and the 10X is very accurate but I've never been a big fan of the way the powder drop connecting rod engages the spring loaded "arm". After reading your threads a few months back, I decided to upgrade to the Hornady case activated powder drop. I ordered the following parts from Midway this morning.

Hornady Case Activated Powder Drop
Hornady Quick Change Powder Die
Hornady Quick Change Powder Die Powder through Expander 452 Diameter
Hornady Quick Change Powder Die Powder Through Expander 355 Diameter
RCBS Lock-Out Die

I plan on putting the Redding 10X in the second position above the priming system. I'm going to use the powder dies with expander and I'll put the RCBS Lock-Out die where the 10X currently is (third position). I'll post a few photos of the setup once it's all together. If all goes to plan, I'll order more quick change powder dies for .357 Mag, .44 Mag/.44 Spl, .45 Colt and .454 Casull along with matching expander dies.

 

[MCMXI]

UPDATE:

I managed to set up the Hornady Case Activated Powder Drop with my Redding 10X powder measure and it works very well indeed and is better than the original RCBS system in some ways though not quite so universal. I had to file/fit the connecting arm that attaches to the powder drop since it attaches a little differently (one screw) but that was easy enough. I also had to tap the inside of the Redding 10X for 9/16-18 NF threads so that the powder drop tube could screw into the powder measure ... also quite easy.

I wasn't able to put the powder measure at station #2 on my PiggyBack II because it would interfere with the primer tube ... duh!! I could cut about 2" off the primer tubes that I use with the progressive but at this point I'm not planning on doing that. Also, I don't think I'll be using the powder through expanders or lock out die since I'm expanding the case mouth at station #2. My thinking right now is that if the Redding 10X power drop is activated (case under station #3) and there's powder in the hopper, powder is going to end up in the case. The chance of a squib is virtually zero as is the chance of a double charge given that the 10X is very accurate and consistent. I could remove the crimp die to free up a station for the lock out die, but then I'd need to crimp in a separate step on a single stage and that's not ideal. Anyway, here's a photo of the set up.

 

[Tilos]

1858:
Thanks for posting, I've thinking about doing just that to my PB II.

 

[Jonah]

1858
Don't give up on the powder through expanders. That is what makes the set up worth while. Even with the shorter primer tube, you can gain a station by doing away with the expander on station two. and then be able to seat and crimp in two different stations. May be a good trade off.

By the way, nice conversion on the Redding measure.

 

[Walkalong]

Very nicely done 1858

 

[rfwobbly]

Ho! Ho! Huh?

Sacrilege!

Everyone knows it's against the The Reloader's Code to mix colors like that! It's well known you shouldn't mix and match various vendors products to achieve the best ammo for your personal purposes. I mean what's the world coming to?

And besides, mixing red and green like that (even if it is thoroughly thought out and extremely well executed) only makes the end result look like some Christmas ornament.

Could we get one more picture with some small, twinkling lights, please?

 

[MCMXI]

Thanks guys. I've sent an email to Redding to ask if the BR-30 metering insert will fit the 10X. I'd like to have the option of using the progressive to load HOT .454 Casull ammunition but the 10X can't handle that much powder in one throw. If it won't fit, I might have to buy a BR-30 powder measure.

Don't give up on the powder through expanders. That is what makes the set up worth while. Even with the shorter primer tube, you can gain a station by doing away with the expander on station two. and then be able to seat and crimp in two different stations. May be a good trade off.

I'll keep an open mind but the only reason (and maybe a good reason) to free up a station would be for the RCBS lock out die which is equivalent to Hornady's powder cop die. There's no doubt that a lock-out die would inspire confidence but as I mentioned earlier, the 10X works so well and is so accurate that a squib or double charge is virtually impossible (with the Hornday CAPD I'd say that it IS impossible). That's one of the issues that I had with the original RCBS system. It was possible for the powder measure connecting rod to slip out of the spring-loaded arm such that no powder would be dispensed. Luckily, any time that's happened I've noticed it in time, but there were some close calls. With Hornady's system, if there's a case in station #3, the linkage will activate and powder will fall, assuming that there's powder in the hopper. I call this idiot proof.

Everyone knows it's against the The Reloader's Code to mix colors like that! It's well known you shouldn't mix and match various vendors products to achieve the best ammo for your personal purposes. I mean what's the world coming to?

HA! I have mostly Redding and RCBS reloading equipment but I will always choose the "best" product regardless of the color. I could have bought RCBS's version of the CAPD but it's $20 more for the same product.

 

[Walkalong]

If it won't fit, I might have to buy a BR-30 powder measure.

Bear in mind it is more of an "intermediate" powder measure designed for average "30 Gr" load. Aimed at Benchrest shooters.

My BR-30 will throw a max of 56.1 Grs IMR 4895, 62.8 of H-335, 56.4 of H-322, 52.4 IMR 3031. Only ones I have checked max on. Naturally a different lot might be slightly different.

I set up both my 10X and my BR-30 to work on my LNL, but went a much different route. Peter's is certainly easier, and you can move the measure from station to station.

 

[MCMXI]

Bear in mind it is more of an "intermediate" powder measure designed for average "30 Gr" load. Aimed at Benchrest shooters.

HOT .454 Casull loads using H110 and 300gr lead bullets range from 27 to 30 grains. The 10X won't dispense that much powder in one throw so I was using it to throw two charges of approximately 15 grains. The BR-30 would be perfect and if the metering insert fits the 10X I'll be one happy camper. If I have to buy another powder measure, I'll need to buy another CAPD kit too. It never ends.

Walkalong, great work yourself on your 10X and BR-30. They're such good powder measures that it's well worth the effort to make them work with whatever progressive press we're using. We should have a sticky for all of these innovative powder measure modifications.

 

[Walkalong]

Excellent. It will work great for that purpose. Yep, very good measures. I have been very happy with mine.

 

[MCMXI]

UPDATE: Redding BR-30 and Hornday Case-Activated Powder Drop with RCBS PiggyBack II.

I couldn't be happier with the Redding 10X powder measure that I'm using with Hornady's Case-Activated Powder Drop on my RCBS PiggyBack II (see posts above). The only "problem" is that the 10X can't dispense more than about 25gr of pistol powder in a single throw. .454 Casull, .45 Colt, .44 Mag and even some .357 Mag loads exceed 25.0gr not to mention .223 Remington loads. So I ordered and received a Redding BR-30 a couple of months ago and yesterday decided to set it up on my RCBS PiggyBack II. Just like the Redding 10X, I tapped the body with 9/16-18 NF threads so that the powder drop tube could screw into the powder measure. I shaped the metering drum "arm" from Hornady to fit nice and tight, installed the screw and then ... "what the heck .... !!" I realized that the arm was pointing down to the 6 o'clock position at rest which is different than the 10X. I'm not sure why Redding did that but I realized that it wouldn't work with the Hornady linkage. So I cut the drum "arm", made a spacer, welded everything together, finished off with a grinder and some files and ended up with this.

You can see that I had to change the angle on the "arm" so that it was aligned with the micrometer body. Without that modification, there's no way that the linkage will work.

Finished product ... Redding BR-30 ready for 25.0gr + loads.

 

[Walkalong]

Very nice work on the "drum arm" you made by hand for the BR-30. Impressive.

 

[MCMXI]

Very nice work on the "drum arm" you made by hand for the BR-30. Impressive.

Thanks ... but I should clarify that all I did was cut the arm in two and weld in a spacer, then shape it. There are many here, you included, that could make the entire arm from a piece of 1/8th sheet metal. I don't have much if any experience with an end mill although I have access to one. It was easier for me to use as much of the original arm as possible. I'm pleased with how it turned out though. The Hornady Case-Activated Powder Drop is a big improvement over the original RCBS arrangement. I don't feel the need for a powder cop or powder check die at all because the Redding powder measures are so consistent and the Hornady linkage and drop tubes so reliable.