Square Deal B vs XL-750 for new reloader

Folks often forget that the Square Deal was intended as a "gateway" press to introduce folks to progressive reloading...that is why it was price at about 1/3 of a 550 and had a designed life expectancy of 65k rounds. The expectation was that by then you would have become a full time reloader and ready to move up to a better press...there were no expectations that the owner would ever need a case or bullet feeder. At the original price, getting one for every caliber you reloaded was considered very practical.

Fans have only themselves to blame for the current price of the SDB; which has risen with demand

I’m not sure the users are the ones to fully shoulder the blame. Both of mine have loaded hundreds of thousands each being sent back to Dillon at least 3 times over the years to be refurbished and sent back to me on their dime, due to their no BS warranty that doesn’t expire.

That means the new buyers are the ones funding maintenance on all of the machines made previously. Everyone else just had obsolete machines they used to make and no longer support.
 
I’m not sure the users are the ones to fully shoulder the blame. Both of mine have loaded hundreds of thousands each being sent back to Dillon at least 3 times over the years to be refurbished and sent back to me on their dime, due to their no BS warranty that doesn’t expire.
I don't think I was clear in my statement.

I agree with your statement about the unexpected cost of refurbishing the numerous tired SDB over their expected service life has now been added to their initial cost
 
Well, I did it. After confirming that my LGS had not ordered the gear (the guy hasn't responded to three attempts to get an answer in the last 7 days and hasn't even given me pricing info yet), I ordered it from Scheels today.

They had very nearly everything I needed in stock and free shipping. A new 750 and case feeder are on the way!

Thanks again for the advice and assistance offered by everyone in this thread!
 
Well, I did it. After confirming that my LGS had not ordered the gear (the guy hasn't responded to three attempts to get an answer in the last 7 days and hasn't even given me pricing info yet), I ordered it from Scheels today.

They had very nearly everything I needed in stock and free shipping. A new 750 and case feeder are on the way!

Thanks again for the advice and assistance offered by everyone in this thread!
photos or it didn’t happen! want to see your setup!
 
Of course, when you get a new toy...the phone starts ringing off the hook and you have a bunch of work to do.

Finally had some free time today and made a little progress.

First I made some space:
BA4F4DB9-8EBE-419F-A5C1-FDFDB119BECC.jpeg

Then I did a little mockup to get a feel for the best working height while standing:
4A4636A5-139F-4E5A-BD98-4C99A51E3793.jpeg

Next, the benches were assembled and set to max height (which is about 41 inches). My 70 year old basement was extremely out of level. These benches were a good choice. I had enough foot adjustment between both to get them perfectly level and then screwed them together in the corner.

A58BE8CD-BBC6-4537-B64D-7AD1D2F0AB47.jpeg

Mounted the press after making sure the door to the right will still open and that it was centered between the joists above. Have to make it easy to fill the case feeder and remove it when necessary. The step ladder will be necessary for that work.

9E7ADD4C-B915-4DDC-8016-B007E9799699.jpeg

Tomorrow the fun begins. I can start assembling the press! Pretty excited.
 
Of course, when you get a new toy...the phone starts ringing off the hook and you have a bunch of work to do.

Tomorrow the fun begins. I can start assembling the press! Pretty excited.

That's going to be a NICE setup! Your joists line up perfectly for a case feeder mirror to hang from! I'd also put a small air compressor down there, and you can run some schedule 80 along that with a drop down line, makes press maintenance a snap. Also, I loaded in the basement for years, and even in S. AZ, the humidity was a pain...get a decent dehumidifier.

That press will last you a lifetime. I will suggest you buy a 12.00 primer arm push rod and an index ring as a spare, the primer rod and the index ring are the only thing I've ever broke on my 2 750s, and they both have at least a 100K rounds on them by now. Dillon will ship you replacement primer rods and index rings on a phone call, but it's nice to have a spare on hand so you don't lose any time loading. The secret to not breaking the rod is careful set up...you've got to get it tweaked so the primer slide moves all the way out, but the wheel isn't sitting right on the elbow on the rod. Both of mine came from the factory adjusted just slightly off, and I broke both of them in short order. As in all things Murphy, once I had a spare on hand for each press, I never broke another one;-) The index ring is really about forcing something. You'll never break one if you stop when something doesn't feel right and carefully work through the blockage...but one second of impatience......and your swapping a part. That's by design BTW, the index ring is supposed to break before you harm something important....don't be tempted by a billet replacement index ring...that's the path to the dark side!
 
That's going to be a NICE setup! Your joists line up perfectly for a case feeder mirror to hang from! I'd also put a small air compressor down there, and you can run some schedule 80 along that with a drop down line, makes press maintenance a snap. Also, I loaded in the basement for years, and even in S. AZ, the humidity was a pain...get a decent dehumidifier.

That press will last you a lifetime. I will suggest you buy a 12.00 primer arm push rod and an index ring as a spare, the primer rod and the index ring are the only thing I've ever broke on my 2 750s, and they both have at least a 100K rounds on them by now. Dillon will ship you replacement primer rods and index rings on a phone call, but it's nice to have a spare on hand so you don't lose any time loading. The secret to not breaking the rod is careful set up...you've got to get it tweaked so the primer slide moves all the way out, but the wheel isn't sitting right on the elbow on the rod. Both of mine came from the factory adjusted just slightly off, and I broke both of them in short order. As in all things Murphy, once I had a spare on hand for each press, I never broke another one;-) The index ring is really about forcing something. You'll never break one if you stop when something doesn't feel right and carefully work through the blockage...but one second of impatience......and your swapping a part. That's by design BTW, the index ring is supposed to break before you harm something important....don't be tempted by a billet replacement index ring...that's the path to the dark side!

That's an awesome tip. It hadn't crossed my mind that I could put a mirror over the case feeder. Now I'll have to find one that fits in between there.

I have a big air compressor in the hobby shop with a reel and we put a "whole house" humidifier in last summer when we replaced the AC and furnace. It's always 30% relative or more in the house these days.

Is high humidity a problem for reloading? We tend to keep in moist.

When I placed the order I got the XL-750 replacement part kit. I'll need to check and see if the primer arm push rod is included with that kit. When I get set up I'll pay special attention to that arm. Another good tip!

I like the height of the press, but when the lever is all the way down it's about two inches low (forces me to dip my shoulder a bit). Does anyone know if the Inline Fabrication sits a little bit higher when the lever is all the way down? It looks like it might, but I have not been able to find any side-by-side comparison to the OEM lever.
 
That's an awesome tip. It hadn't crossed my mind that I could put a mirror over the case feeder. Now I'll have to find one that fits in between there.

I have a big air compressor in the hobby shop with a reel and we put a "whole house" humidifier in last summer when we replaced the AC and furnace. It's always 30% relative or more in the house these days.

Is high humidity a problem for reloading? We tend to keep in moist.

When I placed the order I got the XL-750 replacement part kit. I'll need to check and see if the primer arm push rod is included with that kit. When I get set up I'll pay special attention to that arm. Another good tip!

I like the height of the press, but when the lever is all the way down it's about two inches low (forces me to dip my shoulder a bit). Does anyone know if the Inline Fabrication sits a little bit higher when the lever is all the way down? It looks like it might, but I have not been able to find any side-by-side comparison to the OEM lever.
No primer rod in the spare parts kit, might be an index ring though, don't remember. You need to fix that height, the 2 inch shoulder drop will destroy your back, because you'll be seating primers off camber. The inline fab mount will definitely raise it up...might be too much in your case with the low roof. I dunned mine up with wood to get it to the height I wanted until i put them in a mount.
 
That's an awesome tip. It hadn't crossed my mind that I could put a mirror over the case feeder. Now I'll have to find one that fits in between there.

I have a big air compressor in the hobby shop with a reel and we put a "whole house" humidifier in last summer when we replaced the AC and furnace. It's always 30% relative or more in the house these days.

Is high humidity a problem for reloading? We tend to keep in moist.

When I placed the order I got the XL-750 replacement part kit. I'll need to check and see if the primer arm push rod is included with that kit. When I get set up I'll pay special attention to that arm. Another good tip!

I like the height of the press, but when the lever is all the way down it's about two inches low (forces me to dip my shoulder a bit). Does anyone know if the Inline Fabrication sits a little bit higher when the lever is all the way down? It looks like it might, but I have not been able to find any side-by-side comparison to the OEM lever.
You literally asked about 2 weeks ago about presses, and you now have a BOMB setup!

You are no BS-ing!!!

We are all giving you one of those slow claps!! right on man!!
 
Does anyone know if the Inline Fabrication sits a little bit higher when the lever is all the way down?
The Inline Fabrication Ergo handle will raise the lowest point of the handle to about your waist level.

The Ergo handle comes in two lengths. Unless you have really long arms, the Short one will likely work better. I suggest you call Dan and he can walk you though the considerations when deciding on which one to get
 
The Inline Fabrication Ergo handle will raise the lowest point of the handle to about your waist level.

The Ergo handle comes in two lengths. Unless you have really long arms, the Short one will likely work better. I suggest you call Dan and he can walk you though the considerations when deciding on which one to get

I think that's all I need (a little bit higher when down). Thanks!
 
Today I put together "most" of the press, but ran out of time because...it's dark in that corner of the basement. Tomorrow I'll install a couple of LED lights and some outlets over there. I also need to move one of the Sonos speaker over there.

But, I can't put a light directly over the press because it will interfere with the case feeder. I don't want to put it over my head because it will cast shadows when I'm between the light and press.

Is it a good idea to put the light behind the press? Or, should I install two 48 LED light fixtures (one on each side of the press)?

My old eyes want lotsa light!
 
If you add the KMS (squared) lighting system to your 750, you'll have plenty of light to load by.

For general area lighting, putting a light behind the press is generally a bad idea...you'll get a lot of glare/eye strain. It's like folks who put an LED strip on the wrong part of their single stage press and wonder why they can't comfortably see what's happening.

If you want high mounted lights, you should have them on both sides and angled down/inward toward the press. Small spots, like used for artwork are very good for this.

If you want a "task light", you could try something on a goose neck
 
If you add the KMS (squared) lighting system to your 750, you'll have plenty of light to load by.

For general area lighting, putting a light behind the press is generally a bad idea...you'll get a lot of glare/eye strain. It's like folks who put an LED strip on the wrong part of their single stage press and wonder why they can't comfortably see what's happening.

If you want high mounted lights, you should have them on both sides and angled down/inward toward the press. Small spots, like used for artwork are very good for this.

If you want a "task light", you could try something on a goose neck

Thanks for the tips. I did a quick and dirty mount with one 48 inch LED light to the left of the press, and it's casting a shadow where I'll need to look for powder charges.

Looks like I'll need to give in and order a 750-specific light.
 
If the mods decide this thread is old enough...I'll stop poking at it.

Two days ago I installed some new LED lights. It was a bit of a pain due to the ducting, but I think it's going to work. I haven't needed a flashlight or headlamp since I started to work at the bench. That's a good sign.

This morning I installed three new outlets over the bench. Working upside-down is a pain! Hopefully I will have plenty of outlets for things down the road, such as casefeeder, bulletfeeder, case prep tools, vibe cleaners, whatever.

636525E7-1F12-4786-8188-D463C693BBD5.jpeg

845BB7C9-6709-42E5-9D85-FD0CFC839EFE.jpeg

C3696D94-6F17-4B56-97B3-CCBF13093927.jpeg

This afternoon I finished assembling the press and started with setting up the dies. I'm going very slow and trying to make sure I understand everything that is going on.

I've decided to start some 158g plated HPs. When I get that all figured out we can give WC a try.

Two questions. First, how does my crimp look? OAL is 1.450.

2631EB66-CC63-4A62-9068-4FA41DE6BB2A.jpeg

And second, how does my flare look?

4CB9BDD1-1EAF-4075-9367-94D68778150C.jpeg

I think the flair is a bit light. Now I understand why this is difficult if one does not set all the cases to the same length before starting. Flair is varying with mixed cases.

I'd appreciate any thoughts. With a little luck, I'll have some rounds loaded up tomorrow!
 
There are a lot of opinions about the amount of flare to apply...it depends on if you value ease of bullet placement or longevity of the case mouth.

I use an expander/insert with the M-die profile. My test of "enough expansion" is placing the bullet in the case mouth and being able to invert the case without the bullet falling out.

Hard to tell with the slight blur of the image, but I think you crimp a bit more than I do...but it is perfectly positioned
 
There are a lot of opinions about the amount of flare to apply...it depends on if you value ease of bullet placement or longevity of the case mouth.

I use an expander/insert with the M-die profile. My test of "enough expansion" is placing the bullet in the case mouth and being able to invert the case without the bullet falling out.

Hard to tell with the slight blur of the image, but I think you crimp a bit more than I do...but it is perfectly positioned

If I understand you correctly, I'd rather flare less and reuse the brass a few more times, but we will see how much of a pain "less flare" is when I start to run that press tomorrow.

I thought the crimp looked a little heavy too.

This picture is a bit more clear:

7A8CFB65-DD2D-4B50-8CC5-74158459C96B.jpeg
 
If I understand you correctly, I'd rather flare less and reuse the brass a few more times, but we will see how much of a pain "less flare" is when I start to run that press tomorrow.

I thought the crimp looked a little heavy too.

This picture is a bit more clear:

View attachment 1142879
I think that's a solid 357 crimp, I wouldn't change a thing there. As far as flare.....so many opinions. My pref is too flare as little as possible, and still allow the bullet to drop in evenly and straight. You'll need slightly more for cast, or if you ever use a bullet feeder.
 
I think that's a solid 357 crimp, I wouldn't change a thing there. As far as flare.....so many opinions. My pref is too flare as little as possible, and still allow the bullet to drop in evenly and straight. You'll need slightly more for cast, or if you ever use a bullet feeder.

That is very good info. I do indeed plan to use a bullet feeder and cast bullets. (just as soon as I recover from buying all this gear).

Thank you.
 
If I understand you correctly, I'd rather flare less and reuse the brass a few more times, but we will see how much of a pain "less flare" is when I start to run that press tomorrow.

I thought the crimp looked a little heavy too.

This picture is a bit more clear:

A tip I wish was told to me years ago… Look into “M” profile expander! will change your life with very straight ammo!

NICE CRIMP!!!
 
If I understand you correctly, I'd rather flare less and reuse the brass a few more times
Actually the complete opposite. I'd rather flare more and make sure the bullet enters straight and without shaving any coating/lead. The bullet tipping is really irritating also.

How many loading you get from your brass can vary. "More" is relative. I have a lot of brass so it takes a while to build up the number of times a case has been reloaded...however, most of my regular practice cases have been loaded at least 15 times and I've had maybe 2 cracked case mouths in thousands of reloads

I thought the crimp looked a little heavy too.

This picture is a bit more clear:
Much better picture. Your crimp looks good
 
Actually the complete opposite. I'd rather flare more and make sure the bullet enters straight and without shaving any coating/lead. The bullet tipping is really irritating also.

How many loading you get from your brass can vary. "More" is relative. I have a lot of brass so it takes a while to build up the number of times a case has been reloaded...however, most of my regular practice cases have been loaded at least 15 times and I've had maybe 2 cracked case mouths in thousands of reloads


Much better picture. Your crimp looks good

I'd be more than OK with 15 times!
 
I have a hard time recommending buying a progressive of any type for a new reloader. Im not saying it cant be done, Im just saying you have not only the learning curve of learning to reload, but you have the learning curve of the press itself.

That being said, the 750 is a fine and reliable press. A good way to approach setting up a progressive it just approach it like a single station. Get each station working on a single round, checking as you go, and once you have the press setup, then you can move onto to full progressive. The thing about a progressive? You can make alot of bad ammo in a hurry if you arent setup right.

The case feeder is worth every penny on a progressive. A bullet feeder is a distant second. You can easily load 400-500 per hour without a bullet feeder once you get into the swing of it. A powder check die isnt a bad idea, but you will develop a manual of arms as you learn to use one. I check every round I load on my progressive with my Mark One Eyeball for powder. For me its an unconscious act now. You are also less likely to load a squib on a progressive unless you run the powder drop dry, or it malfunctions, as the press generally needs to be run full stroke every round.

A pretty standard setup for a 5 station progressive is something like this:
Station 1: size and decap
Station 2: expander
Station 3: powder drop
Station 4: seater
Station 5: crimper

In order to add the check die or a bullet feeder you have to do one of a few things. You have to use a PTX expander in the powder drop, or you have to use a seater/crimper die. If you want to use a bullet feeder and a check die, you have to do both. Personally I think the PTX is easier to setup, especially with revolver cartridges that need a roll crimp. I do run a bullet feeder, so in my case I use a PTX in the powder drop and put it in station 2, put the bullet feeder in station 3, the rest is the same.

Dont discount having even a simple single stage press as well. Sometimes you need one.

Now that I have the gear on hand, and am really digging into all this...I appreciate this post. I honestly didn't understand a lot of your post in the beginning, and I only understand some of it now.

However, the order of operations you present is valuable. Especially when you explain the workarounds to getting everything a boy wants with only 5 stations.

Thank you!
 
Back
Top