Squib Rant

[ATLDave]

The important part isn't checking every case. It's having one (and only one) powder charge in every case. Checking and indexing are both human processes.


Damon, you're obviously a reliable and consistent human. Many people aren't! Many people are safe loaders on 550's. I'm just saying that a huge fraction of the squibs I have seen / RO'd came off 550's - obviously run by less reliable and consistent humans!

 

[illinoisburt]

No squibs, and never a dead primer over the past almost 30 years. I have however witnessed a few. All were shotgun shells, which I suspect is because those were the primary volume reloaders at the places I went out to shoot. I agree its all about having a process and sticking to it.

 

[Lafitte]

Over the years I have seen a few squibs, most of them came from the same 2 or 3 reloaders. That tells me a lot about the cause.
Lafitte

 

[kcofohio]

Squib, you mean like this? Yep, I did it. After some trouble shooting, evaluating, and process changes. I learned alot from that little squib. Never assume anything.

 

[Damon555]

You're right Dave.....lots of folks out there who shouldn't get within 10 feet of a reloading press!

 

[kcofohio]

You're right Dave.....lots of folks out there who shouldn't get within 10 feet of a reloading press!

Ah, but who, pray tell, shall determine that?

 

[Jack B.]

Ah, but who, pray tell, shall determine that?

Getting close to dangerous ground , aren't they.

 

[hdwhit]

ATLDave wrote:
Turrets and auto-indexing progressives (as long as the latter has a powder check) are among the least likely to crank out squibs... because more of the operation is automatic.

I was just on Midway's site finally giving in and buying an RCBS Rock Chucker (they're on sale) and, thinking about this thread, went and read the customer reviews on their progressive presses. In particular, I noted that about 20% of the people commenting on the Lee progressive presses were critical of the powder measure failing to activate (or activate fully) and producing squib loads (some of which the operator caught during the process, others were discovered at the range). So, having just read a couple dozen reviews saying that the mechanical element failed, I don't know that I agree with you that progressives are necessarily amongst the least likely to produce a squib.

 

[hdwhit]

kcofohio wrote:
I learned alot from that little squib.

Very good.

A loader's first squib should be a wake-up call that something isn't right and they need to closely evaluate what they're doing and make necessary changes. If that happens, the first squib should be their only squib.

 

[hdwhit]

Damon555 wrote:
...lots of folks out there who shouldn't get within 10 feet of a reloading press!

And I think anyone who has been reloading for any length of time has met a few of them. Of course, the key thing in my book is to stay away from them when they go to the range.

 

[peterk1234]

I have been reloading for almost a year now, so I am a newbie. I recently switched to a progressive press. I think I use a strict protocol. If it doesn't feel right....stop and check all shells. I use a powder check in one of my stations. I visually inspect (I have a light setup) after the powder check station to verify there is a charge. I do everything the same way all the time. If I stop, I make sure there are no partially built bullets in the shellholder. If someone comes into the room, I stop. Never ever have any alcohol, before or during a reloading session. Every 30 to 50 rounds I pull one out of rotation and measure the charge. It has been all good so far after about 15,000 rounds.

 

[hdwhit]

kcofohio wrote:
Ah, but who, pray tell, shall determine that?

My vote would be: Charles Darwin and the process of natural selection that he observed.

 

[hdwhit]

peterk1234, a belated welcome to the hobby. Yes, from what you wrote, you seem to be taking a serious, cautious approach to your reloading. And I think that's the key to doing it safely.

I urge new reloaders to formalize their reloading procedures and put them down in writing in the form of a checklist. That way, you check off every step as you do it and you have a record of what you did and that you did follow procedure. Date or otherwise identify the sheet so it can be associated with the rounds. It will help you diagnose any problems that come up in the future as well as providing you a historic record of what has worked well and hasn't worked well. You'll also be surprised how handy it is when, some day in the future, you discover a box of cartridges you loaded in 2017 and need to know what they are and what's in them.

In my case, my father got me to start keeping meticulous records of my reloading activities and I can still pull out a box of cartridges I loaded on November 16, 1980 and tell you everything you might want to know about it.

 

[Wis-Harpo]

KALDOR--- I like your picture, I was there in Minnesota last Saturday at the Country Kitchen and stopped at the Jolly Green Giant statue on Interstate 90. The picture must have been in the winter because he has on a red scarf.

As to the subject of squibs, I have only had one since I started reloading for rifles in about 1975 and for 1 pistol in 2015. My only squib was with a 45 ACP a year ago. It was on a LCT and had the powder charged manually. I did not have my Lee Auto measure yet. Manually charged and visually checked. Why it happened ?????

 

[Damon555]

Ah, but who, pray tell, shall determine that?

Therein lies the problem. You never know until it's too late!

 

[cfullgraf]

When I got into reloading around 1980, I had a few squib loads loading with a single stage press. I do not remember the exact reasons why but probably some issues with the powder measure.

When I bought my first progressive press, an auto indexing press, around 2009, I had a few squibs as I was learning the process. The squibs happen around a jam or production interruption. In the process of clearing the problem, once in a "blue moon" an empty case would get by the powder measure. Yes, inattention let the empty go through, but it would not have been caught by the powder check die either.

As I learned how to operate the progressive and the various steps became second nature, the squibs have gone away but it is one reason I do not prime on the progressive presses. I've had too many priming problems (1 in 1000 is too many) that have led to squibs. Eliminating resizing and priming during reloading have eliminated squib loads. Less is happening while loading the cases and there are fewer distractions when there is a problem on the press.

 

[dwstone1227]

Very good.

A loader's first squib should be a wake-up call that something isn't right and they need to closely evaluate what they're doing and make necessary changes. If that happens, the first squib should be their only squib.

 

[kcofohio]

Very good.

A loader's first squib should be a wake-up call that something isn't right and they need to closely evaluate what they're doing and make necessary changes. If that happens, the first squib should be their only squib.

I totally agree of the wake-up call. And as said in a prior post, with the recent scramble for components. Especially powders, which was my case.
How a person reacts and trouble shoots the problem, is very important. And if they have to ask to help solve the issue, here at THR, has been a great many to offer assiastance.
I get a little more concerned when somebody new wants to full throttle loads.

 

[kcofohio]

My vote would be: Charles Darwin and the process of natural selection that he observed.

I never gave much credence to Darwin. Either one is disciplined or not. Willing to learn or not. And the internet in itself can be a fickle teacher.

 

[Dudedog]

10000s of rounds and didn't have one till I got my progressive.
User error/wake up call.
No die is a substitute for good procedure but I added a powder cop then got a RCBS lockout die.
Still need to watch the powder cop but it will work for rifle, I use the lockout die for pistol, no need to watch it.
Pretty sure the squib came about to due some problem when I was loading that broke the sequence and then a brain fart on my part.

Surprising how far a primer alone can drive a bullet.

Edit
(still need to watch what's going on, did not mean to imply the lockout die eliminates that need, just that you don't have to watch it like you would a powder cop)

 

[hdwhit]

Dudedog wrote:
Pretty sure the squib came about to do some problem when I was loading that broke the sequence and then a brain fart on my part.

When my father was a teenager, he had a friend who reloaded. The friend did not observe any sort of careful reloading process and my father was surprised he was never seriously injured. He strongly objected to me getting into reloading and I did so behind his back. I'd been loading for about two or three years before he got comfortable enough that I was doing it right for him to use what I assembled.

When I was able to come "out of the reloading closet", he helped me standardize my procedure and start documenting every step so that I would have a basis for troubleshooting and process improvement. Because of him, every step in the process has at least one - and often two - levels of redundancy. It is because everything is checked at least twice that I haven't ever had a squib.

Surprising how far a primer alone can drive a bullet

Ain't that the truth!

For most of my time reloading, I just thought of primers as like a matchstick that provided the flame to start the powder "burning". I really never gave any thought to the fact that lead styphnate was actually a high explosive!

 

[hdwhit]

kcofohio wrote:
I never gave much credence to Darwin.

Well, the comment was intended to be more sarcasm than anything else. But, I'm going to assume you are trying to gently point out that it was less than charitable of me to suggest someone injuring, maiming or killing themselves is not an adequate substitute for education and instruction. And in that respect, you are absolutely right and I stand corrected.

 

[hdwhit]

Wis-Harpo wrote:
I was there in Minnesota last Saturday at the Country Kitchen and stopped at the Jolly Green Giant statue on Interstate 90. The picture must have been in the winter because he has on a red scarf.

I love Minnesotans. That's not cynicism. If I could figure out the culture and deal with the winters, I'd consider retiring there. As it is, I'm a Southerner, so I'll be staying below the Mason-Dixon line. But you gotta love a people who think to go out and put a scarf on their statutes when it gets cold.

As to the subject of squibs, ... Manually charged and visually checked. Why it happened ?????

It is easy to look at a reloading block full or cartridges and miss that one is empty. That is why I not only 1) verify each case is charged at the time I charge it, 2) conduct a visual inspection with the block held at an angle under strong light to show the shadow of the case mouth across the powder, and 3) visually verify that powder is in the case before the bullet is seated. Even after 38+ years, I still catch "would have been" squibs at step #3.

 

[WVRJ]

I have had squibs,mostly when I was shooting trap and loading lots of shells.Once in a while the charge bar on my progressive loader wouldn't move right.I remember it happening during a shoot and the wad lodged in the barrel.I had no clue what to do,but an old timer yelled at me"blow in the barrel!".I did,and the wad popped out and I finished that round with a 24,thanks to the squib.Most of the time,there is just plain human error.Whether it comes from a lack of experience,education,or just not being cautious,it does happen.I don't do any progressive loading any more,but am a stickler of detail when I am loading ammo.I learned the basics from a very patient uncle who took the time to get me started in metallic cartridge loading,and some of the tricks he taught me about loading reliable ammunition have stuck with me through the almost 40 years I have been loading.I think it is far easier to get in trouble with a progressive machine due to the fact that they are busy,complicated tools that must maintained and adjusted for them to work right.Too many newbies are trying to run before they learn to walk by buying a progressive and trying to learn the basics with a machine that they don't really understand.A squib load is one thing,a double charge can be a whole different kind of disaster.Internet or not,there is something to be gained from having a wise set of eyes looking over your shoulder when you're starting out.I think that experienced reloaders should always be willing to help somebody who is just starting out.I think the best way to learn something is to teach it.I go through a tray of brass in a certain pattern during each step of the loading process,and it only takes a few seconds to look down in the case mouths as they sit in the tray and make sure the powder is at the same level in each one before the seating process begins.

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

1) read a lot of reloading manuals
2) start off with a single stage press
3) always start off with the minimum charge when working up a new load
4) prime off press the more you handle your brass the more likely you are to see something wrong
5) use loading blocks look into each case I use a flashlight to look in each case to check my powder load
6) ask a lot of questions
7) any load you get over the internet verify it