SRQOTW: resizing rifle brass without expander ball?

[1KPerDay]

Some of you may remember the super-fun I had with my first rifle (.30-06) case (couldn't de-prime at first, case stuck, had to buy stuck case remover)...

In the process I think I buggered up the expander ball/decapping pin. So my stupid question of today is... how necessary is the expander ball? Does it do anything other than open up/prepare the neck for the bullet?

I've sized a few cases without the decapper/expander, using imperial sizing wax, but before I continue I figured I'd ask if I was wasting my time.

BTW the sizing took quite a bit more force than I imagined. The sizing wax worked, though.

 

[USSR]

how necessary is the expander ball? Does it do anything other than open up/prepare the neck for the bullet?

With a sizing die that uses an expander ball, the neck is initially sized down several thousands more than where you want to be, and then the expander ball is pulled through the neck to open it up further to what is a proper neck diameter to hold a bullet securely. When you remove the expander ball, you end up with a case with too much neck tension. Contact the die manufacturer, and for little or nothing they will send you a new expander ball.

Don

 

[1KPerDay]

Okay, thanks.

question: IF a bullet will enter the neck without getting shaved off... would that be okay? Is there any danger in having too much neck tension? Would it increase pressure? Or would the fact that a bullet entered properly be a sign that the neck tension was okay?

Just theoretically; I haven't tried it.

 

[1KPerDay]

Never mind... it turns out the shaft and expander ball are fine and true. The tip/decapping pin portion was a tiny bit skewed but I'm not using it to decap anyway. I polished the shaft/expander a bit, tightened it all back up and it's working great (making sure to lube properly, of course).

 

[MMCSRET]

I have sized bottle neck cases without the expander and then used my custom sized Lyman "M" die to size the neck to the ID that I needed for a certain rifle or bullet. Makes it easier to tailor loads and bullets to a particular cartridge in a particular gun.

 

[MEHavey]

Bent decapping pens are a common occurrence and no big deal. Replace it w/ with a common picture-hanging nail (same diameter/cut off to ~length) and press on.

 

[USSR]

I have sized bottle neck cases without the expander and then used my custom sized Lyman "M" die to size the neck to the ID that I needed for a certain rifle or bullet. Makes it easier to tailor loads and bullets to a particular cartridge in a particular gun.

+1. Another way to eliminate using your expander ball in standard FL sizing dies is to use an expander mandrel as sold by Sinclair Intl.

Don

 

[Walkalong]

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=38807/Product/Sinclair_Generation_II_Expander_Dies

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=33134/Product/Sinclair_Expander_Mandrel___oversized

 

[Funshooter45]

This brings up a question I have. Is there truly any danger associated with just skipping the expander ball as long as it's not hurting your bullets? I tried it on some loads quite awhile back and didn't notice any difference in shooting. If I recall, I think it was in a .308. My bullets were sized at 0.308" and the normal neck size ID was about 0.304" or 0.0303" when I used the expander. Without the expander ball, the IDs for this particular lot of brass came out to be about 0.300" down to about 0.298". I was using a boattail bullet, so they slid in just fine. They seemed to shoot the same as all the others. Later on, I heard about the dangers of too much neck tension so I kinda quit doing that experiment. But really, what difference does it make if the mouth is smoothly chamfered and you're using a boattail bullet? Either the expander ball expands the neck or else the bullet does it. The bullet won't be compressed by the brass. As the brass is stretched out by the bullet, it doesn't retain all the compressional strength. If I pull the bullet using either method, I would expect the ID of the case to be the same. The "extra" gripping power caused by increased neck tension (assuming there is any) would seem to be miniscule compared to the pressure built up in the initial expansion during combustion.

Anyway, that was a very limited test I did. I was just wondering if anyone had more extensive first hand knowledge.

 

[rcmodel]

There is no safety reason to use the expander.

It's use just insures uniform neck tension in every round.

Without it, cases with work hardened necks would give higher neck tension then softer cases that were not work hardened. That could effect accuracy due to the different "start" pressure when the bullet is released from the case.

Personally, I would be more concerned about bullet damage when forcing a .308" bullet to go in a .300" case neck.

You could actually be causing the jackets to loosen from the core, which could effect accuracy.

rc

 

[Funshooter45]

I agree with that reasoning completely. When I tried it, all the cases were from the same lot and just fired 1X. And the brass thickness on the neck appeared to be pretty uniform. I measured all the IDs before I loaded them to be sure they were fairly consistent. The main reason I quit doing it, aside from hearing it was a bad idea, was I got to thinking about the inconsistencies that might occur if I was using brass that wasn't as consistent to start with.

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks for the additional info. I sized about 200 HXP, SL, WCC, LC .30-06 cases last night... those who recommended imperial sizing wax, I thank you. Great stuff. It was very easy to just touch the tin of lube with my left hand, grab a case from the loading block, rotated it/spin it with my left hand to distribute the lube, and insert it into the shell holder.

I think I got a blister on my right hand from the ball on the handle, LOL but otherwise it was great.

I noticed that all the US military brass sized considerably easier than the HXP stuff. Has that been your experience?