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Follow up: I called RCBS custserv just now, waited 6 minutes on hold, and they're sending me a replacement decapping pin/rod gratis. Thanks RCBS!
Stuck another rifle case! yaaaaay!
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Centurian22
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Glad they're taking care of you. I was going to have to retaliate against all those who so loudly bash Lee customer service and say how amazing RCBS is. Lol
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Got two packages from RCBS yesterday... 2 complete sets of replacement decapping rods, nuts, and 10 replacement pins.
Makes me happy I've bought so much RCBS stuff and ensures I will continue to do so.
Now I just need to find a better shellholder... I'm paranoid about using the Lyman and Lee ones I have now...
Makes me happy I've bought so much RCBS stuff and ensures I will continue to do so.
Now I just need to find a better shellholder... I'm paranoid about using the Lyman and Lee ones I have now...
PhotoBiker
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FYI: I was in a rush last night, stuck another LC case in my die. Since I had my "kit" in my reloading drawer, I had the case pulled and was back resizing in under 10 minutes.
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question: when you stick a case with the expander ball inside the case... how do you get the depriming rod/expander ball out of the case?? I've never been able to do that.
Innovative
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You're right. Once the rim is pulled off a case, it's usually difficult to remove the decapping rod. That's another benefit of using bushing type dies (like the Redding S-Type). However, depending on who's die you're using, you can try this:
1.) Unscrew the upper lock-nut from your die, and remove it.
2.) Then, pull back on the decapping rod until it's tight.
3.) Then, unscrew the decapping rod, leaving the expander ball to fall inside your case.
4.) Then, use a close fitting steel rid and a mallet to whack the case free.
You're right. Once the rim is pulled off a case, it's usually difficult to remove the decapping rod. That's another benefit of using bushing type dies (like the Redding S-Type). However, depending on who's die you're using, you can try this:
1.) Unscrew the upper lock-nut from your die, and remove it.
2.) Then, pull back on the decapping rod until it's tight.
3.) Then, unscrew the decapping rod, leaving the expander ball to fall inside your case.
4.) Then, use a close fitting steel rid and a mallet to whack the case free.
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I can't unscrew the deapping rod from the expander ball even with them out of the case... I dunno how I'd do it with them in the case. They are TIGHT on there and I don't want to mar the ball by using pliers or whatever.
ranger335v
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I stuck a lot of cases decades ago when experimenting with commercial and substitute case lubes. I didn't find any commercial lube - nor a lot of substitutes - to be lacking when it was properly applied - but nothing works very well if it's not properly applied.
About the only practical difference I found between lubes was the method of application and getting it back off but all that's a matter of personal preference. Bottom line, if we lube the lower, thicker case well (because that's where they get stuck) and any commercial lube will do fine.
So far as small base dies being more sticky than others, I sometimes reform .30-06 to .22-250 with Imperial and similar softened waxes (Kiwi Mink Oil, Bag Balm, etc) with total satisfaction; no .223 SB die has a harder job to do than that!
I get amused at the oft posted cautions to lube inside the case necks to prevent sticking. It helps expanders get out but I don't know how lube matters on a case surface that never touches the die!
About the only practical difference I found between lubes was the method of application and getting it back off but all that's a matter of personal preference. Bottom line, if we lube the lower, thicker case well (because that's where they get stuck) and any commercial lube will do fine.
So far as small base dies being more sticky than others, I sometimes reform .30-06 to .22-250 with Imperial and similar softened waxes (Kiwi Mink Oil, Bag Balm, etc) with total satisfaction; no .223 SB die has a harder job to do than that!
I get amused at the oft posted cautions to lube inside the case necks to prevent sticking. It helps expanders get out but I don't know how lube matters on a case surface that never touches the die!
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STUCK ANOTHER ONE@!$#!@#!! 
Installed the new guts, tried Lee case holder for .223, made sure the ball was lightly lubed, made sure the neck was lubed, lubed the outside of the case with Imperial sizing wax, sized it, went fine. wiped it off, measured in case gauge, needed more setback, turned in the die quarter turn, lubed it, sized it, measured okay. Got the next case, lubed the neck, lubed the case, ran it into the die and stuck it. It took noticeably more force to size, but it was the same headstamp (LC06). But of course by the time you feel it taking more force it's too late. It doesn't say small base or S.B. on the RCBS die. Just RCBS 77 .223. Could it be undersized?? My brass was fired in ARs and SCARs and Minis, not a machine gun or anything...
Swear. Remove the sizing rod, ball stays in case. Look in kit for bit to drill case. Bit isn't there. Look up on internet, says .20". I mic a few bits. Don't have anything the right size. Go to ace hardware and buy $5 11/64 bit. Drive home, bit spins in chuck/binds in case. Drop something, look on floor of garage and find the #7 bit that came with RCBS kit. Drill case. Attempt to thread case. Crappy japanese tap that came with RCBS kit has been worn out in 2 uses... teeth are broken, dulled, won't tap the case, slips out. Ride motorcycle to Ace hardware, buy $6 1/4x20 tap. Ride home, tap works fine. Remove case.
I have an RCBS shellholder on the way from Midway. But after spending what feels like a ridiculous amount of money and time and effort on this enterprise I'm seriously about ready to throw this POS out the window and accept the fact that I simply wasn't meant to reload .223.
:banghead:
Installed the new guts, tried Lee case holder for .223, made sure the ball was lightly lubed, made sure the neck was lubed, lubed the outside of the case with Imperial sizing wax, sized it, went fine. wiped it off, measured in case gauge, needed more setback, turned in the die quarter turn, lubed it, sized it, measured okay. Got the next case, lubed the neck, lubed the case, ran it into the die and stuck it. It took noticeably more force to size, but it was the same headstamp (LC06). But of course by the time you feel it taking more force it's too late. It doesn't say small base or S.B. on the RCBS die. Just RCBS 77 .223. Could it be undersized?? My brass was fired in ARs and SCARs and Minis, not a machine gun or anything...
Swear. Remove the sizing rod, ball stays in case. Look in kit for bit to drill case. Bit isn't there. Look up on internet, says .20". I mic a few bits. Don't have anything the right size. Go to ace hardware and buy $5 11/64 bit. Drive home, bit spins in chuck/binds in case. Drop something, look on floor of garage and find the #7 bit that came with RCBS kit. Drill case. Attempt to thread case. Crappy japanese tap that came with RCBS kit has been worn out in 2 uses... teeth are broken, dulled, won't tap the case, slips out. Ride motorcycle to Ace hardware, buy $6 1/4x20 tap. Ride home, tap works fine. Remove case.
I have an RCBS shellholder on the way from Midway. But after spending what feels like a ridiculous amount of money and time and effort on this enterprise I'm seriously about ready to throw this POS out the window and accept the fact that I simply wasn't meant to reload .223.
:banghead:
Last edited:
Innovative
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When you turned your die in another 1/4 turn, that shows that you were guessing at chamber clearance. Research the Digital Headspace Gauge, and you'll see how to FL resize accurately. Your handloads will always chamber perfectly. The rest of your reloading technique is fine.
When you turned your die in another 1/4 turn, that shows that you were guessing at chamber clearance. Research the Digital Headspace Gauge, and you'll see how to FL resize accurately. Your handloads will always chamber perfectly. The rest of your reloading technique is fine.
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I have a Wilson case gauge that shows min and max headspace clearance and overall length... do I need something else?
And there's somethingwrong or I wouldn't be having to drill/tap 2 out of three cases to get them un-stuck. I've literally produced ONE sized case in a month of trying.
dmazur
Member
Probably not. Calipers can be used with the Wilson gauge. (One way is to use the depth rod to measure the head with the tail of the calipers "straddling" the upper step on the gauge.)
Other tools, such as the RCBS Precision Mic or Innovative's dial gauge, make it easier. But they are not required.
All you need is a standard to compare your fired case headspace to resized case headspace. (In this context "headspace" is cartridge headspace, the distance from the head of the case to the shoulder datum.)
What may not have been mentioned is that mixed range brass may not resize the same, due to different number of firings making the brass progressively harder.
If you have consistent brass, consistent lube, and the die is adjusted properly (and locked down tight), you should get consistent resizing.
Innovative
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The Wilson case gauge works "assuming" that your chamber is correct, and it doesn't show the exact clearance that you have. Unlike the RCBS Precision Mic, the Digital Headspace Gauge works on ALL different calibers.
There are other tools that can measure your handloads, but they require special bushings or attachments and some of them require 3 hands to operate.
Most shooters don't use any method of measuring their handloads, and they seem to get by fine. However, when you're experiencing problems with your handloads, accurate measuring will show you exactly where (and how bad) your problem is. It's best to know (for sure) how your handloads fit. Make them chamber with 100% reliability, and reduce unwanted clearance for best accuracy and longer brass life.
The Wilson case gauge works "assuming" that your chamber is correct, and it doesn't show the exact clearance that you have. Unlike the RCBS Precision Mic, the Digital Headspace Gauge works on ALL different calibers.
There are other tools that can measure your handloads, but they require special bushings or attachments and some of them require 3 hands to operate.
Most shooters don't use any method of measuring their handloads, and they seem to get by fine. However, when you're experiencing problems with your handloads, accurate measuring will show you exactly where (and how bad) your problem is. It's best to know (for sure) how your handloads fit. Make them chamber with 100% reliability, and reduce unwanted clearance for best accuracy and longer brass life.
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I checked out your gizmo; looks cool! If i were reloading for one rifle I'd definitely be in the market. However I'm reloading for several... so I'm going to have to live with potentially shorter case life in the name of universal compatibility.
Got it working... using a different press. Single stage Bair from prehistoric times. Primers go everywhere but it's working, by gum! Lubed the heck out of the brass and dented the first couple shoulders, and then it settled in. Still takes a lot of effort to size, particularly LC brass. But haven't stuck another (yet) .
I need to get a universal decapper that works for .223; I have one that is awesome but is .27-caliber and up. I could decap in my Lee press (which has a primer dump tube) and then size in the Bair. I got a blister from sizing about 15 cases this morning... the Bair has no linkage to make it easier to shove the case into the die or yank it out. But the cases are measuring fine in my Wilson case gauge so I guess I'm off and running. Now to figure out a better system for removing primer crimps.
Got it working... using a different press. Single stage Bair from prehistoric times. Primers go everywhere but it's working, by gum! Lubed the heck out of the brass and dented the first couple shoulders, and then it settled in. Still takes a lot of effort to size, particularly LC brass. But haven't stuck another (yet)
.I need to get a universal decapper that works for .223; I have one that is awesome but is .27-caliber and up. I could decap in my Lee press (which has a primer dump tube) and then size in the Bair. I got a blister from sizing about 15 cases this morning... the Bair has no linkage to make it easier to shove the case into the die or yank it out. But the cases are measuring fine in my Wilson case gauge so I guess I'm off and running. Now to figure out a better system for removing primer crimps.
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- The Digital Headspage Gauge is universal, and it works on ALL different calibers.
- For removing primers, I use a $3. Lee Universal Primer Punch, a plastic mallet and a shellholder sitting on the bench. It's just as quick as using a decapping die, and the primers stay put.
- The Digital Headspage Gauge is universal, and it works on ALL different calibers.
- For removing primers, I use a $3. Lee Universal Primer Punch, a plastic mallet and a shellholder sitting on the bench. It's just as quick as using a decapping die, and the primers stay put.
1k - I have precisely '0' experience with the .223. I have managed to stick a few .300 win mag cases though. Being too cheap to buy a stuck case remover I just use a hex head self drilling screw. find a socket that is big enough to seat on the base of your die - without trapping the case, get a hex head self drilling screw that will go through the socket- maybe a 1/4" screw and long enough to go through the socket and completely through the base of the hull with the threads. Instant and cheap stuck case remover. It does not work if can't back the expander ball out far enough to clear the tapping tip on the screw though.
Certaindeaf
member
You will notice that many given Lee shell holders will hold more cartridges than let's say RCBS (I don't know about Lyman).. check and see for yourself. If a given shellholder will hold more cases than another brand, that holder is more "sloppy". Sometimes you may well have to "splurge" on an RCBS or other holder.. sometimes not. Good luck and that sucks.
Today, 12:37 PM #67
John3921
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Location: Montana
Posts: 87 1k - I have precisely '0' experience with the .223. I have managed to stick a few .300 win mag cases though. Being too cheap to buy a stuck case remover I just use a hex head self drilling screw. find a socket that is big enough to seat on the base of your die - without trapping the case, get a hex head self drilling screw that will go through the socket- maybe a 1/4" screw and long enough to go through the socket and completely through the base of the hull with the threads. Instant and cheap stuck case remover. It does not work if can't back the expander ball out far enough to clear the tapping tip on the screw though.
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Today, 12:47 PM #68
Certaindeaf
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Posts: 3,997 You will notice that many given Lee shell holders will hold more cartridges than let's say RCBS (I don't know about Lyman).. check and see for yourself. If a given shellholder will hold more cases than another brand, that holder is more "sloppy". Sometimes you may well have to "splurge" on an RCBS or other holder.. sometimes not. Good luck and that sucks.
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A reloader insist on drilling the hole in the head of the case with a 1/4” drill then tap, I can not help those reloaders, I drill the hole in the head of the case to .375”. the 3/8” (.375”) hole will allow most sizer plug/recapping assembles to be removed out the bottom. then there is the perceived difference between shell holders, the deck height of a shell holder is .125” I do not care what brand, if the deck height is not .125 get your money back.
BUT!!! before you do di the research, there are advantages to having shell holders with different deck heights, some reloaders spend $40.00 for a set of 5 shell holders with different deck heights that range from +.002 to +.010, I purchases a set of #6 for $5.00, three if them were off by .001” each. I did not need them but for $5.00 dollars, I could not pass them up. I can do anything the Reddidng shell holders can accomplish with a $11.00 feeler gage plus I can size cases for short chamber with the same feeler gage.
Then there is the unnecessary separating the case from the shell holder when the ram is lowered, the case can be separated from the shell holder by rotating the shell holder until it can be removed from the ram and case at the same time. After seperating the case from the shell holder remove the die with the stuck case then reinstall/ screw in back into the press from the bottom, this method will allow the reloader to use the press as a vise or means of holding the die while drilling the case head. Again, drill the hole large enough to allow the removal of the primer punch/sizer plug assemble.
F. Guffey
John3921
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Posts: 87 1k - I have precisely '0' experience with the .223. I have managed to stick a few .300 win mag cases though. Being too cheap to buy a stuck case remover I just use a hex head self drilling screw. find a socket that is big enough to seat on the base of your die - without trapping the case, get a hex head self drilling screw that will go through the socket- maybe a 1/4" screw and long enough to go through the socket and completely through the base of the hull with the threads. Instant and cheap stuck case remover. It does not work if can't back the expander ball out far enough to clear the tapping tip on the screw though.
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Today, 12:47 PM #68
Certaindeaf
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Posts: 3,997 You will notice that many given Lee shell holders will hold more cartridges than let's say RCBS (I don't know about Lyman).. check and see for yourself. If a given shellholder will hold more cases than another brand, that holder is more "sloppy". Sometimes you may well have to "splurge" on an RCBS or other holder.. sometimes not. Good luck and that sucks.
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A reloader insist on drilling the hole in the head of the case with a 1/4” drill then tap, I can not help those reloaders, I drill the hole in the head of the case to .375”. the 3/8” (.375”) hole will allow most sizer plug/recapping assembles to be removed out the bottom. then there is the perceived difference between shell holders, the deck height of a shell holder is .125” I do not care what brand, if the deck height is not .125 get your money back.
BUT!!! before you do di the research, there are advantages to having shell holders with different deck heights, some reloaders spend $40.00 for a set of 5 shell holders with different deck heights that range from +.002 to +.010, I purchases a set of #6 for $5.00, three if them were off by .001” each. I did not need them but for $5.00 dollars, I could not pass them up. I can do anything the Reddidng shell holders can accomplish with a $11.00 feeler gage plus I can size cases for short chamber with the same feeler gage.
Then there is the unnecessary separating the case from the shell holder when the ram is lowered, the case can be separated from the shell holder by rotating the shell holder until it can be removed from the ram and case at the same time. After seperating the case from the shell holder remove the die with the stuck case then reinstall/ screw in back into the press from the bottom, this method will allow the reloader to use the press as a vise or means of holding the die while drilling the case head. Again, drill the hole large enough to allow the removal of the primer punch/sizer plug assemble.
F. Guffey
March 23, 2013, 10:04 PM #60
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When you turned your die in another 1/4 turn, that shows that you were guessing at chamber clearance. Research the Digital Headspace Gauge, and you'll see how to FL resize accurately. Your handloads will always chamber perfectly. The rest of your reloading technique is fine.
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“Research the Digital Headspace Gauge” I did, there is nothing about the “Digital Headspace Gauge” that looks like a head space gage, then there is SAAMI, SAAMI does not list head space on the cartridge, only the chamber, the case has 2 length, one from the head of the case to the mouth of the case, the other is the length of the case from the shoulder/datum back to the head of the case.
Wilson calls their gage a case length gage complete with a datum. I use the same feeler gage I use for setting up my dies when sizing as I do to determine the length of the case from Wilsons datum. With the use of a straight edge or flat surface of a set-up table I can determine the length of the case in thousandths from the Wilson Datum to the head of the case, again, for the same $11.00 dollars.
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When you turned your die in another 1/4 turn, that shows that you were guessing at chamber clearance. Research the Digital Headspace Gauge, and you'll see how to FL resize accurately. Your handloads will always chamber perfectly. The rest of your reloading technique is fine.
__________________
Visit our website at WWW.LARRYWILLIS.COM it's devoted to helping shooters make the best handloads possible.
“Research the Digital Headspace Gauge” I did, there is nothing about the “Digital Headspace Gauge” that looks like a head space gage, then there is SAAMI, SAAMI does not list head space on the cartridge, only the chamber, the case has 2 length, one from the head of the case to the mouth of the case, the other is the length of the case from the shoulder/datum back to the head of the case.
Wilson calls their gage a case length gage complete with a datum. I use the same feeler gage I use for setting up my dies when sizing as I do to determine the length of the case from Wilsons datum. With the use of a straight edge or flat surface of a set-up table I can determine the length of the case in thousandths from the Wilson Datum to the head of the case, again, for the same $11.00 dollars.
F. Guffey
how are you guys getting cases stuck? i don't get it. i've reloaded probably close to 100k 223 cases (only a couple thousand LC though) mostly RP and PPU on 3 different presses with 3 brands of dies (wilson, redding, dillon). Only one I ever stuck was when i didn't use lube, and it didn't stick that bad. i was able to beat it out with a hammer and punch.
i'm using the same lube / wax too.
what gives?
i'm using the same lube / wax too.
what gives?
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I realize that... but my understanding is that your device gives you the measurements for A particular rifle, based on measuring a fired case, and helps you set up your dies to load for THAT particular rifle. I'm loading .223 for multiple rifles. Does that make sense?
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You tell me, man... it's a mystery to me. I think PERHAPS the combination of a pretty snug FL sizing die and POSSIBLY an off-center ram on the LCT (though it's given me nothing but joy over thousands of handgun rounds) combined with a slightly loose shellholder conspired against me.
MAYBE the die just needed to get more lube in its guts. MAYBE my Bair single stage press' ram is centered properly and that makes the difference with the shellholder. Maybe the "cam-over" action of the older press does something to help... but in any case, I got it working, as noted above. I'd take the die out of the Bair and put it back in the Lee and do a test to see if the lee sticks again, but I don't want to reset the Die (nor do I want to drill out ANOTHER case).
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Once the Digital Headspace Gauge is calibrated for one rifle you're you're all set. If you reload one caliber for several rifles, and you want fully interchangable ammo, you can simply calibrate this gauge to factory ammo.
However, for belted magnum and rimmed calibers, it's important to not calibrate to factory loads. This is because the repetitive case stretching (with factory shoulder clearances) can cause case head separation.
Guffey will be glad to know that I now have Precision Die Shims that fit under the FL sizing die. The Digital Headspace Gauge shows exactly which shim(s) to use for each chamber. They adjust die height quickly in .001" increments all the way to .017"
Once the Digital Headspace Gauge is calibrated for one rifle you're you're all set. If you reload one caliber for several rifles, and you want fully interchangable ammo, you can simply calibrate this gauge to factory ammo.
However, for belted magnum and rimmed calibers, it's important to not calibrate to factory loads. This is because the repetitive case stretching (with factory shoulder clearances) can cause case head separation.
Guffey will be glad to know that I now have Precision Die Shims that fit under the FL sizing die. The Digital Headspace Gauge shows exactly which shim(s) to use for each chamber. They adjust die height quickly in .001" increments all the way to .017"
Today, 04:17 PM #74
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Guffey will be glad to know that I now have Precision Die Shims that fit under the FL sizing die. The Digital Headspace Gauge shows exactly which shim(s) to use for each chamber. They adjust die height quickly in .001" increments all the way to .017"
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And you did that all by yourself with no help from the Internet and or Skip’s shims?
Again, nice to have? but not necessary, the next question. How do you verify the adjustment?
F. Guffey
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Guffey will be glad to know that I now have Precision Die Shims that fit under the FL sizing die. The Digital Headspace Gauge shows exactly which shim(s) to use for each chamber. They adjust die height quickly in .001" increments all the way to .017"
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And you did that all by yourself with no help from the Internet and or Skip’s shims?
Again, nice to have? but not necessary, the next question. How do you verify the adjustment?
F. Guffey
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