Starting with 308 and rifles in general.

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gilgsn

gilgsn

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Hi guys, I haven't posted in a while... Happy new year!

I'm just getting into rifle shooting... Well, I've had a few, but never shot long distance, i.e. more than 100m. I was into, and still am into pistol shooting. I started young, with BP revolvers before I could buy my first cartridge gun, A Coonan 357, LOL. Found myself a genuine Colt SAA built in 1897 .38-40, four years ago, fixed the timing and Bob's my uncle ;-) I also own an Uberti 1873 rifle in .32-20, which shoots well at 100m. My first bolt action, bought last year, or was it two years ago? 2021 went by in a flash, is a CZ 455 in .17hmr. That was the first time I shot past 25m! I put a cheap Hawke 4-16 with a 17hmr reticle on it and called it good enough.
I jus received a Remington 783 Heavy Barrel (24") in .308. I have a Boyds Spike Camp stock on order. I hesitated a long time between .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor, but there was no 6.5 available and everything for 308 is more available and cheaper. That rifle cost me the equivalent of $800, because of taxes... I can't spend more than the rifle's price for a scope so I am looking at a Vector Continental 3-18x50 34mm tube. I was tempted by the Vortex Venom 6-25x56 but the 6x is a bit high for an all-around rifle. So I am very new to long-range shooting... BTW I do cast and reload.
Now the rifle: The action and barrel look good. The stock is crap. The barrel is not free-floating as advertised. It's also not "heavy," as far as I would call it, but it isn't the pencil kind either. Glad I have a Boyds stock on order. The trigger is pretty good given the price point. That blade in the trigger feels weird, remind me of my Glock, but it breaks cleanly. My only concern is the action screw in front of the trigger guard, which looks canted a few degrees... It could be the stock or trigger guard that make it looks that way of course. I have not taken it apart yet, can't find my hex driver... I hope the hole in the action was drilled true...
Now I wonder about the Boyds stock... Ordered it with pillars installed. Should I glass bed on top of that or just drop the action in and call it a day? How much more can glass bedding improve accuracy on top of pillar bedding? I guess I should try it as is first and see how it shoots...
Anyway, I just wanted to say hi to readers of this board, since I usually post in revolvers and reloading... Any advice and suggestions are of course most welcomed..
Take care,
Gil.
 
Post a picture of the screw in question, it's really hard to be of help without being able to actually see the issue.
 
gilgsn said:
Hi guys, I haven't posted in a while... Happy new year!

I'm just getting into rifle shooting... Well, I've had a few, but never shot long distance, i.e. more than 100m. I was into, and still am into pistol shooting. I started young, with BP revolvers before I could buy my first cartridge gun, A Coonan 357, LOL. Found myself a genuine Colt SAA built in 1897 .38-40, four years ago, fixed the timing and Bob's my uncle ;-) I also own an Uberti 1873 rifle in .32-20, which shoots well at 100m. My first bolt action, bought last year, or was it two years ago? 2021 went by in a flash, is a CZ 455 in .17hmr. That was the first time I shot past 25m! I put a cheap Hawke 4-16 with a 17hmr reticle on it and called it good enough.
I jus received a Remington 783 Heavy Barrel (24") in .308. I have a Boyds Spike Camp stock on order. I hesitated a long time between .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor, but there was no 6.5 available and everything for 308 is more available and cheaper. That rifle cost me the equivalent of $800, because of taxes... I can't spend more than the rifle's price for a scope so I am looking at a Vector Continental 3-18x50 34mm tube. I was tempted by the Vortex Venom 6-25x56 but the 6x is a bit high for an all-around rifle. So I am very new to long-range shooting... BTW I do cast and reload.
Now the rifle: The action and barrel look good. The stock is crap. The barrel is not free-floating as advertised. It's also not "heavy," as far as I would call it, but it isn't the pencil kind either. Glad I have a Boyds stock on order. The trigger is pretty good given the price point. That blade in the trigger feels weird, remind me of my Glock, but it breaks cleanly. My only concern is the action screw in front of the trigger guard, which looks canted a few degrees... It could be the stock or trigger guard that make it looks that way of course. I have not taken it apart yet, can't find my hex driver... I hope the hole in the action was drilled true...
Now I wonder about the Boyds stock... Ordered it with pillars installed. Should I glass bed on top of that or just drop the action in and call it a day? How much more can glass bedding improve accuracy on top of pillar bedding? I guess I should try it as is first and see how it shoots...
Anyway, I just wanted to say hi to readers of this board, since I usually post in revolvers and reloading... Any advice and suggestions are of course most welcomed..
Take care,
Gil.
Click to expand...

First, define and clearly understand your goal. Are you after 1 MOA @ 100 yds? 400 yds? 800 yds? 1/2 MOA at 100 Yds and beyond?

deleted to stay on point.

Get this .308, shoot it and discern where you'd like to go with a rifle. Hunting, paper punching at 100 - 300 yrs, clanging steel at 500 - 800 yds? Soon you may understand there is no generic, one rifle for any and all occasions.

Good luck, and there is an entire world of cast rifle bullets, gas checked, powder coated, etc. You don't have to put copper in your barrel if you'd rather not. Of course, if you are chasing the elusive 5 shot bug hole, hand loads with premium bullets is perhaps a better solution.
 
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I see you are in France which adds some difficulty to finding supplies. Most optics available here are export restricted, so not sure what is available to you over there. The Rem 783s do not have a good reputation over here. Quality control is "iffy," but they can be shooters. Best of luck with that. I would be quick to abandon the 783 project before spending big money trying to fix problems if you don't get rapid results.

Being over there, you should be in Mauser paradise. The post-war FNs and Swedish made mausers, as well as anything made for the sporting market including especially CZ should be well made. 7,62x51 is a relatively common chambering from what I hear from some European friends I have. 6,5x55 may also be had and is a fine caliber for target shooting even out to 1000m or hunting any hoofed animal found in Europe. In a modern M98, Sauer or Sako action it can be loaded to equal or better ballistics than the 6,5 Creedmore. Do not overlook the common 7x57mm chambering either. Match bullets are limited, but it will do well at 300M or farther. A traditional glass bedded steel and walnut Mauser with quality optics and trigger is no joke! The Swiss K-31 and K-11, G-11 may also be found over there, often with diopter target sights already installed. An optics mount is also available and I don't believe it is export restricted. It is sold by "Swiss products." They are generally inherently accurate rifles as-is in the military stock, and the 7,5x55 cartridge approximates 7,62x51 ballistics. The 174 grain GP-11 military cartridge is built for long range shooting and manufactured to high standards. It reloads with standard 7,62 bullets.

I assume your goal is 300m shooting. You do not need huge optics for that. Anything 12X or larger will suffice.
 
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Is the Boyd's stock solid hardwood or laminate?

McMillian has a good 4-part article explaining pillar bedding:

https://mcmillanusa.com/pillar-bedding-article-part-i/
https://mcmillanusa.com/pillar-bedding-article-part-ii/
https://mcmillanusa.com/pillar-bedding-article-part-iii/
https://mcmillanusa.com/pillar-bedding-article-part-iv/

I think the advantage of bedding the recoil lug in addition to pillars is summed up in this sentence from part IV:

"Though pillars give the stock compressive strength, they don’t offer much in the way of shear strength, which is what’s needed around the recoil lug."
 
I'm building a custom 783 for my FFL buddy right now.

His gun came in a synthetic stock where the trigger guard was molded into the stock itself. On the Woodstock guns they're probably is a front trigger guard screw but I am 99% sure that just screws into the stock though It doesn't do anything with the action.
The rear action screw in the front action screw or all that really matter.

EDIT: I was moving his stock around in the gun room, and i noticed the trigger guard ISNT part of the stock, just painted that way. There is an allen head bolt that holds it on at th front. Dosent contact the action at all.


I would definitely glassbed that action into the stock. My general experience with boyds of late has been that there a little sloppy, and skim bedding should help even out some of the possible issues
 
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1621905393.jpg
gilgsn said:
Hi guys, I haven't posted in a while... Happy new year!

I'm just getting into rifle shooting... Well, I've had a few, but never shot long distance, i.e. more than 100m. I was into, and still am into pistol shooting. I started young, with BP revolvers before I could buy my first cartridge gun, A Coonan 357, LOL. Found myself a genuine Colt SAA built in 1897 .38-40, four years ago, fixed the timing and Bob's my uncle ;-) I also own an Uberti 1873 rifle in .32-20, which shoots well at 100m. My first bolt action, bought last year, or was it two years ago? 2021 went by in a flash, is a CZ 455 in .17hmr. That was the first time I shot past 25m! I put a cheap Hawke 4-16 with a 17hmr reticle on it and called it good enough.
I jus received a Remington 783 Heavy Barrel (24") in .308. I have a Boyds Spike Camp stock on order. I hesitated a long time between .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor, but there was no 6.5 available and everything for 308 is more available and cheaper. That rifle cost me the equivalent of $800, because of taxes... I can't spend more than the rifle's price for a scope so I am looking at a Vector Continental 3-18x50 34mm tube. I was tempted by the Vortex Venom 6-25x56 but the 6x is a bit high for an all-around rifle. So I am very new to long-range shooting... BTW I do cast and reload.
Now the rifle: The action and barrel look good. The stock is crap. The barrel is not free-floating as advertised. It's also not "heavy," as far as I would call it, but it isn't the pencil kind either. Glad I have a Boyds stock on order. The trigger is pretty good given the price point. That blade in the trigger feels weird, remind me of my Glock, but it breaks cleanly. My only concern is the action screw in front of the trigger guard, which looks canted a few degrees... It could be the stock or trigger guard that make it looks that way of course. I have not taken it apart yet, can't find my hex driver... I hope the hole in the action was drilled true...
Now I wonder about the Boyds stock... Ordered it with pillars installed. Should I glass bed on top of that or just drop the action in and call it a day? How much more can glass bedding improve accuracy on top of pillar bedding? I guess I should try it as is first and see how it shoots...
Anyway, I just wanted to say hi to readers of this board, since I usually post in revolvers and reloading... Any advice and suggestions are of course most welcomed..
Take care,
Gil.
Click to expand...
Hi. That's funny. I kid you not I was just thinking minutes ago that if I was starting all over and investing in a rifle and reloading equipment for the first time, I would almost certainly go with 6.5 Creedmoor over .308. as I looked at the G1 ballistic coefficients of the various Hornady ELDs and lamented. .308 is nice because components are cheap and plentiful though and you can shoot the same bullets for your 7.62 MBR out of your 30 Nosler bolt action and I never shoot at any distances that would make 6.5 truly worthwhile for me. Still, I'm super envious of that BC though.

As far as scopes go, I just bought an Arken 6-24x50mm optic tonight brand new for less than $449 with $170 worth of free extras included. First focal plane, super simple zero stop, ultra tactical illuminated reticle, excellent glass and coating, rated for 50 BMG, excellent tracking, waterproof, 34 mm tube. It seems like a lot of optic for the money and that seems to be a general consensus.
 
Lacking any supply of .243 nearby and internet pricing gone mad, I’ve not put many rounds through my 783 Composite stock. Sort of missed having one and was using it as a trainer for kids but when I zeroed the rifle initially it was near MOA using CoreLokt with no adjustments made.

Getting fair performance with uninspiring ammo proved there was potential, and I’ve found better groups with better fodder to the point I’m considering dies, even with it being something of a BIL rifle. That’s the kind you loan your Brother-In-Law for a hunt.

Glass is such a broad topic with all of the manufacturers we have these days but for yonder side of the pond I’d check prices on Meopta, opting for clarity over extra magnification in that price range. Best of wishes in finding what you need.
 
I think the 308 is a definitely fine choice for a "do it mostly" centerfire. I have had only four but all would shoot MOA except for a 99 Savage. A 788, and a Ruger Frontier were both 7/8" with 168 gr match kings. The 788 was 1.5 MOA with cast.
Enjoy.
 
My latest is a "recovery" Savage 95 Commemorative. A total rat, rusty, butchered by Bubba. I shot two three shot groups at fifty yards with cast bullets and Trailboss and it has potential. Next, scope, match prep brass and if it performs half well, a full restoration. 308 is my almost fave, after 222, 223, 30-30 in rifles.
 
Skylerbone said:
Glass is such a broad topic with all of the manufacturers we have these days but for yonder side of the pond I’d check prices on Meopta, opting for clarity over extra magnification in that price range. Best of wishes in finding what you need.
Click to expand...
+1

Ive had 4 Meopta built scopes, none have disappointed.
 
Thanks guy, lots of great input!
Gob, I will take a photo asap, just haven't had the time.. I need to remove the action from the stock and have a look..
385remhep, this rifle will serve multiple purposes for me.. First, target shooting, probably up to 300m. Unfortunately right now you need to be vaccinated here to go to the range.. Second, if I ever decide to go hunting, the caliber has to be adequate up to mid-size game. Third, as a prepping rifle, SHTF kind of thing.. In that role it would be nice to be able to hit at a thousand meters, in the extremely unlikely event it would be necessary. That is why I ordered a 34mm tube scope with lots of range. I might just shoot cast for subsonic loads...
Random8, i absolutely will buy a 6,5x55 in the future, one built before 1900 since they are considered antiques and not regulated! I was considering a CZ in 6.5 Grendel actually but the cost was too high and finding brass is an issue...
Dave, the Boyds is laminated. Thank for the links, great info! I am worried about removing the action from the stock after bedding the recoil lug, even with lots of releasing agent, I need to look into that...
Loonwulf thanks, I am definitely thinking about bedding it... Never heard of Meopta here in France...
Redcon1 I hesitated a long time between 6.5 Creedmoor and 308, almost bought a 6.5, but in the end, as a do-it-all rifle, the versatility and lower cost of the 308 won, but by a hair... The Arken was my first choice, but they told me their scopes were not sold in Europe at this time..
Skylerbone thanks. I think the fact that I already reload with help a great deal to obtain decent accuracy, on top of the better stock. Still not a chassis but I think it will beat the original plastic stock.. My goal is to keep price down for my first long range rifle, while maintaining good enough accuracy and reliability. If I want to play that game more seriously later I can can always get something better. This will just remain the rifle I'll grab if the zombies take over! It will be set-up that way, along with the rest of my kit.
PapaG thank you, that was exactly my thinking for choosing the 308 in the end, even though it lags behind today in long range performance.
Poper that is good news, less than 1MOA would satisfy my requirements..

The only thing that bothers me a little about the 308 is the weight of the ammo. That is why I was also looking into the Grendel in a bolt action. I even considered .22-250 and .243 on top of 6.5 Creedmoor. My other bolt action is a CZ 455 .17hmr. I can carry tons of .17 compared to 308, but of course the 308 has all the oommph... I know the 308 capabilities can be stretched with Palma type bullets like the Lapua Scenars, available here, better BC and 2900fps with the 155gr.
I also need to get back to my Uberty 1873 lever action replica in .32-20, which is a very versatile caliber, assuming you can store enough brass.. it's very economical. Great for short range shooting up to 100yrds, small game up to dog-size (we don't have coyotes here!). There are wolves in the mountains around here but I've never seen one, and the .32-20 might be a little small for that.. As an SHTF rifle it's excellent, but range is limited. Only in the Pyrenees are there a few brown bears, but not here that I know of... So we don't really have animal predators to worry about, and I never heard of a wolf attack in the country. I think feral dogs would be more likely a threat.
Anyway I'm rambling now.. ;-)
I will be posting photos soon!
Ya'll have a better year than this one!
Gil.
 
To be quite honest I don’t even consider 308’s anymore, simply because there are so many calibers that more interesting and out perform the 308.
Click to expand...
That is why I almost, almost did not choose the 308. Thinking about it for weeks, finally, I did go with the 308 because of the availability of ammo, brass and bullets, as well as data... If I only was going to use this particular rifle for long range shooting (which still remains likely) I would have bought a 6.5 Creedmoor or some new whiz-bang 6mm high-BC caliber. Wanting something that could do everything, albeit not perfectly, all my research invariably led me back to the 308, as much as I was almost hoping to find some miracle Jack-of-all-trade super caliber. I have no nostalgia feelings about the 308, no particular past or present considerations that would make me prefer it over something else. Bottom line is, it almost does it all, is economical and widely available. So my preference would have not been a 308, but my needs trumped that...
Gil.
 
I have multiple rifles chambered in .308 win. I’ve developed loads ranging from 110g to 200g. I’ve successfully hunted with the .308, won rifle matches with a .308 and have never been out scored by a 6.5 creed or felt handicap by my cartridge choice.

It’s an accurate, efficient and versatile cartridge.
 
If you are looking for the best scope for the money, look at an Arken.
Price around $400 and will out perform many scopes costing 4 or 5 times that amount.
I have 4 and I lovevthem.
 
I too am a fan of the .308 and have lots of rifles in other calibers. Your more likely to find .308 ammo in a store compared to other calibers except maybe Rim fire and .223 and you can purchase Match Grade .308 ammo from more than one source if you don't reload. Build it right and it will do plenty for you.

Bob
 
gilgsn said:
the Boyds is laminated. Thank for the links, great info! I am worried about removing the action from the stock after bedding the recoil lug, even with lots of releasing agent, I need to look into that.
Click to expand...

The first time was a little scary for me too, but with the right material it's not a big deal. If you can source Brownell's Acraglas Gel, the kit comes with more than enough stuff for several jobs, stores well and will also come in useful for stock repairs. The gel is a 1:1 two-part compound, so mixing is easy and it doesn't drip onto everything.

You can do a small test first with some scrap wood to get a feel for mixing and curing time before doing the actual job. When I use Acraglas, I save my application tool (a popsicle stick) and a small amount of leftover mix on a paper plate to serve as a gauge for curing time. Once the leftover mass appears to have fully solidified, give the rifle a couple more hours before removing the action from the stock. Temperature will affect cure time.

Mark Novak uses Acraglas on lots of different stock repairs -- this video shows him using it on a duffle cut job beginning at around the 35 minute mark:



The included Brownell's release agent is water-soluble transparent blue liquid you paint onto the metal. Once dry it forms a very thin layer that sticks firmly to the metal until bedding compound cures, then peels off and stays with the bedding. Any over application can be removed with sticky tape.

On the other hand, you could always find a gunsmith to do this job for you ...
 
The .308 is a great all around cartridge and a great shtf cartridge in my opinion. I wouldn't worry much about really long range. The Remington 783 has a reputation for accuracy. Many internet experts hate anything Remington. It is cheaply built but well designed. I would not get excited about a huge scope for a hunting rifle and moderate target distance.
 
My uncle is pushing 96 yrs old he has been killing critters with the 308( first and only rifle he has ever owned. model 88. Winchester) longer then most of us on here have been alive its the only caliber he has ever owned
(when did winchester come out with the m88)
, its on its 3rd barrel and 2nd factory stock just to give you an idea of how long that rifle has been kliling game) the 308 is, a great cartridge
 
Hi guys, so here is the screw Gob wanted to see.. Not a great photo but you can see it's not parallel to the trigger guard. Maybe that's ok, I haven't dismantled the rifle yet to look at the screw in relation to the action..
screw.jpg
Dave thanks for that video. I subscribed to that guy's channel. I love restorations!
Gil.
 
And yes, at 96 you will find him in the woods every fall in different states chaseing big game
He tells everyone he will die in the woods with his trusty m88 in his hands
 
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