Stereotyping

[Brother in Arms]

I was reading a thread today http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=181410 about if your a collector/gun nut ect. In other words a post about what stereotypical gun owner are you? I was reading a post by benezra and he describes himself and what type of person he is.

His post made me think about how people always judge and stereotype people. This seems like a natural system for people to categorized people, so they can better guess how they will react. Not the fairest method but it certainly has its merits. If you see some guy who looks like a "dirt bag" coming toward you , you don't know if he is asking to bum a ciggarette, or if he is going to rob you. So you have to use your Judgement.

How do you think people stereotype you?

I can't be sure what people think of me who don't know me but here are some of the things I have heard people say about me.

1. People see that I have long hair, and occasionally Civil war era sideburns or goatee. Many people asume I am a drug user or dealer. Some also assume I am a "hippie". I have also been acused of looking "Anti-gun" or looking "liberal" and when I lived in the west many people assumed I was a "liberal" because I was from the east.

2. I often wear work clothes that are patched, somewhat holy or stained.
Apparently people have thought I was homeless a guy actually handed me a dollar once, which confused me and I refused to take his money and got mad at me and told me to get a job! (that was in Maine though and people aren't really used to seeing homeless people)

3. Other people have known I own firearms and or that I am a Afficianado of firerarms, have said I was a "gun nut" a "militia guy".

I guess the glass is upon all of us. Myself I don't let it bother me. But I try to take this into account when I judge someone why I do it. there is nothing wrong with this and I hate how the government is trying to legislate peoples judgement, with laws against using offensive words and slurs. And societys overall drive for Politcal correctness, though not mandated by law in many locales it is socially frowned upon to say the "wrong thing". I don't care what people think of me because I know ultimatly it doesn't matter what they think. And I don't change myself to placate others.

Sorry I don't have a clear point on this just things I am thinking about.

Brother in Arms

 

[Kurt_M]

Well I know for a fact that some landlords don't like me because I'm a college student. My brother and I called about a house today and were told that "we don't rent to college students". What a crock! We're both members of the armed services, have good jobs and good credit ratings. Never missed a rent payment. We're probably two of the best tenants this jerk will never have.

As far as my appearance, the concensus seems to be 'young'. Everyone I work with thought I was in high school until I mentioned my military service! Being 5'7" doesn't help. Better than getting old before my time I guess.

 

[EddieCoyle]

No offense Brother In Arms, but from one fellow New Englander to another - If someone mistook me for homeless, I'd shave, buy some new clothes, rotate the tires on the house, and invest in a comb. I've lived in Maine. It's hard to look homeless in Maine.

I get stereotyped immediately because I look like a Sopranos cast member (not good in new gun shops). But that's no excuse for looking sloppy.

 

[TarpleyG]

Well I know for a fact that some landlords don't like me because I'm a college student. My brother and I called about a house today and were told that "we don't rent to college students". What a crock! We're both members of the armed services, have good jobs and good credit ratings. Never missed a rent payment. We're probably two of the best tenants this jerk will never have.

As far as my appearance, the concensus seems to be 'young'. Everyone I work with thought I was in high school until I mentioned my military service! Being 5'7" doesn't help. Better than getting old before my time I guess.

There're laws against that sort of discrimination.

Greg

 

[bogie]

The _other_ problem with college students is that most of 'em don't want to rent for more than 9 months at a stretch. This _completely_ screws your life up when spring rolls around. You've suddenly got your property vacant, along with a buncha others.

Solutions:

Year lease - won't work, cuz the students likely won't be around...

Charge year's rent for the nine months - more likely.

Now, if you're looking to rent for several years, call the fellow back, and say the following:

"Sir, my brother and I are just out of the military, but we're both active in Guard, and we're looking for a house we could rent for the next x years while we go back to school."

 

[Kurt_M]

I have no interest in doing business with someone who doesn't even have enough courtesy to grant me an interview. We did call back and tell him about our military status. Didn't matter. We've got a few ideas about how to fix his wagon (none illegal, honest). I can understand being leary about renting to college kids, there are some real bad apples out there. There are plenty of bad apples in the general population too. We don't fall into that group, but this jackass doesn't even want to consider the possibility because he's had trouble in the past. Karma will nail him eventually.

 

[buzz_knox]

There're laws against that sort of discrimination.

Greg

In the absence of any indication that Kurt is in a protected class (being young and in college isn't one), I don't believe it constitutes legal discrimination. Nor should it, if property rights are to mean anything.

He may be a jerk, but having a hard and fast rule does give him some protection. If he offers someone an interview and then turns them down because they are college kids or some other nondiscriminatory reason, he runs a great risk of being falsely accused of discrimination (i.e. he didn't know they were a [insert protected class here] until the interview but after granting them one, he turned them down, proving he discriminated).

It's not bad karma; it's smart business. If you know that someone falls in a general class you don't want for legitimate reasons, you shouldn't meet with them or learn anything about them given the current legal climate.

 

[hso]

I'm sure that I get stereotyped (everybody does) in several different ways.

Most of the time I'd get typed as a middle class technical professional. DressSports, Dockers, casual dress shirt or polo.

Some of the time I'd get classed as a lower middle class construction worker.
Worn BDUs, boots, T-shirt.

The rest of the time I'd get typed as some sort of whacky whitewater boater.
Synthetic hiking/whitewater shorts, LOUD Aloha shirt over bright synth T-shirt, lime Crocs or black Chacos.

I do not dress the same all day long or from day to day and people who know me casually are often surprised when they see me dressed differently from how they are used to seeing me.

 

[El Tejon]

Biggest distinction between someone who looks like a dirt bag and someone who is--the smell. That's how I can tell the off duty cops at the hardware or paint store; they smell like cops (well, the cop watch, clippy knife and clean white undershirt is a give away too). They never have that mope unhealthy smell of beer, 13, Cheetoes and a week's worth of inactivity. The guys with the beards (have to wear them if work outside where I live) and Carhart's are usually working so they have a healthy smell to them.

Been around both kinds for so long, I don't have to see them, I can just smell them. I can even tell the difference between the drugs someone has been using by their breath or stench.

BiA, think of it this way, looks are target indicators. Have to verify by their actions, but something to pay attention to.

 

[El Tejon]

As well, don't ever think that your appearance does not matter. When the cop pulls you over, it certainly does, you and your vehicle. Eddie Haskell up and look clean, like someone who does not need his attention.

Had a kid on a Auto Theft, motorcycle. He fixed it for a buddy, buddy would not pay him and he kept it. Buddy files complaint at Prosecutor's office and my guy gets hit with D felony (6 months to 3 years).

First thing I did was tell my guy to grow his shaved head out, cover up the tats with a new suit at S&K, and shave off the monkey butt on his face. Jury acquited him in 20 minutes.

Look respectable, you may not be, but you need to look it.

 

[HankB]

Look respectable, you may not be, but you need to look it.

Good advice.

It may not be fair, it may not be reasonable, it can and does lead to very incorrect conclusions, but people do judge you by your looks.

 

[Brother in Arms]

The point of my post was not to complain about what people think of me. It was merely an observation, stating that stereotyping isnt all bad or all good. It has its merits and flaws.

By the way EddieCoyle, I don't take any offense from what you wrote, but I also don't need advice from someone from massachusetts. However should I ever need advice on unfair taxation or opressing the rights of the people, I'll give you a call. Perhaps I should have taken into consideration that I was in southern maine at the time when the fellow offered me a dollar. He was probably from massachuesetts. Or maybe there is a law about not looking like an aristocrat, in mass that i'm not aware of. But I am glad you where able to stereotype me without even seeing me, just reading about what I look like, think what you want.

Ill take my chances with being comfortable and looking the way I want. Thats my choice and I am responsable for its consequences, However im sure there will be laws about mandatory dresscodes soon enough.

Brother in Arms

 

[buzz_knox]

laws.

By the way EddieCoyle, I don't take any offense from what you wrote, but I also don't need advice from someone from massachusetts. However should I ever need advice on unfair taxation or opressing the rights of the people, I'll give you a call. Perhaps I should have taken into consideration that I was in southern maine at the time when the fellow offered me a dollar. He was probably from massachuesetts. Or maybe there is a law about not looking like an aristocrat, in mass that i'm not aware of. But I am glad you where able to stereotype me without even seeing me, just reading about what I look like, think what you want.

Talk about stereotyping.

 

[c_yeager]

Stereotyping is what you do every single time you look at a person you have never met before. It is a basic and natural human instinct to size other people up based on the information that is available, and if the only information you have is someones appearance then that is the criteria that you will use. Fighting that tendancy accomplishes nothing but stripping yourself of a valuable human instinct. So what if you arent necessarily being fair to everyone in the world, being fair is overrated.

 

[sm]

Everyone Stereotypes everyone and everything.

Just the way it is.

Buddy of mine bought a old Nissan Truck to use on some hunting property, had it in the big city getting some work done on it and such. He was looked down on and called names. He happens to be a Surgeon, happened to be in old jeans, tennis shoes, old shirt piddlin' with this truck.

Me...<laugh>. Older returning College Student. Not only do I have students younger, some instructors on campus are as well. I am mistaken as being ...Faculty.

Must be the way I point out elevators, know where various departments are, or other questions I answer.

Other stereotype I hear about me <laughs again> I must have made my Fortune early and now just attend College to avoid being bored.

I actually had a student come into a room I was using to study, "I hear there is a Faculty meeting downstairs in a few minutes, better hurry, box lunches just arrived".

Oh well I tried, I got a free Coke and some fun laughs from some instructors I know. [Almost got a free lunch]. Did get to sit in, just to learn about some new technologies being implemented.

Reminds me, next staff meeting they are getting box lunches from a Deli I like, I gotta figure a way to get in there...Rueben's this Deli does great Ruebens...

I'll think of something...maybe sit in for one of my instructors that cannot make it. Worked before.

Yeah I get sterotyped as being Persistent, Loyal, Dependable, Consistent.

Along with hearing "you are older than me" (instructor) or "parents" (classmates).

 

[ball3006]

I am an old fat white guy who..........

is also a 250 lb world class powerlifter who fills in the race blank on an application with "european-American" instead of white which causes all kinds of commotion when it is seen. I don't give a flying fig what people think of me. I am retiring in 47 days to my place in east Texas where I carry my AK all the time, 9 acres. I actually fit right in in that part of the country..........chris3

 

[EddieCoyle]

By the way EddieCoyle, I don't take any offense from what you wrote, but I also don't need advice from someone from massachusetts. However should I ever need advice on unfair taxation or opressing the rights of the people, I'll give you a call. Perhaps I should have taken into consideration that I was in southern maine at the time when the fellow offered me a dollar. He was probably from massachuesetts. Or maybe there is a law about not looking like an aristocrat, in mass that i'm not aware of. But I am glad you where able to stereotype me without even seeing me, just reading about what I look like, think what you want.

Ill take my chances with being comfortable and looking the way I want. Thats my choice and I am responsable for its consequences, However im sure there will be laws about mandatory dresscodes soon enough.

Brother in Arms

Looks like you did take offense. I think this comes down to semantics. There are impressions, sterotypes, and unfair stereotypes. An impression is what you think when you first look at someone/something. A stereotype is a formulaic and often oversimplified conception based on an impression. An unfair stereotype is an incorrect formulaic and often oversimplified conception based on an impression.

For example:

Impression: He looks like a homeless person.

Stereotype: Homeless people smell, beg money, and spend it on drugs or alcohol.

Unfair stereotype: Massachusetts taxes are unfair



Just for fun, let's compare the tax situation in Massachusetts to some other state; say Maine.
(Source: http://www.retirementliving.com/RLstate2.html)


MAINE
Sales Taxes
State Sales Tax: 5.0% (food and prescription drugs exempt)
Gasoline Tax: 27.4 cents/gallon
Cigarette Tax: $2.00/pack of 20

Personal Income Taxes
Tax Rate Range: Low - 2%; High - 8.5%
Income Brackets: Lowest - $4,449; Highest - $17,700
Personal Exemptions: Single - $2,850; Married - $5,700; Dependents - $2,850

MASSACHUSETTS
Sales Taxes
State Sales Tax: 5% (food, clothing, and prescription drugs exempt)
Gasoline Tax: 23.5 cents/gallon
Cigarette Tax: $1.51/pack of 20

Personal Income Taxes
Tax Rate Range: Flat rate of 5.3%
Personal Exemptions: Single - $3,575; Married - $7,150; Dependents - $1,000

If a single guy were to make $100,000/yr, use 20 gallons of gas per week, and smoke a pack of Lucky's per day, his annual tax burden (for these things alone) in Maine would be $9254.71. The same guy in Massachusetts would pay $5921.68. If by "unfair taxation" you meant that it was unfair that you pay more, then you are correct. If you meant that Massachusetts taxes were unfair, then you stand corrected.

You can't avoid forming an impression. Everything we see, hear, smell, taste, or touch has an impression on us. Stereotyping can be avoided by keeping an open mind and not being overly judgemental. Unfair stereotyping can be overcome with education; like the one I just gave you.

 

[Bobarino]

dunno, don't care. i just live the way i want to live and thats all. i'm sure i fit into several sterotypes and many of them are probably right on the money. there's a reason sterotypes exist; they are often true. if they weren't, there wouldn't be such a thing as stereotypes to begin with. i have much more important things to worry about than what other people percieve me as or trying to fit or not fit into a certain sterotype.

Bobby

 

[Wllm. Legrand]

Discrimination?

Waaaa waaaa....Cry me a river.....

It's called "making a judgement". If you look like a loser, then people, based upon past experience, may judge you to be a loser.

Stereotyping is nothing more than a generalization. Which is also making a statistical jugement. THis is not prejudice (which is making a judgement without any evidence, statistical or otherwise upon which to make the evaluation), but rather, as I call it, "post-judice", i.e.,making a generalization based uon my experience in the past. It is a flawed procedure, but inductive and deductive lines of reasoning can both be flawed when applied to the human condition.

I am post-judiced against many stereotypes:

Young people....generally have that "rebel without a clue" look, dumb as a post, usually, and have WAY exaggerated opinions of their own importance. Under 21 most are at the "age of infinite wisdom".

YOUNG black males who try to look "gangsta": look at the statistics; it is not "racism"..I've been a victim of crimes and all times when the criminal was known, he was a young black. Go figure... This does not apply to folks that look like "normal people". Given that the black culture in the U.S. is generally (again, making a generalization, but a valid one) anti-intellectual, anti-integration into mainstream society, and has a 75% illegitimacy rate, I consider it inferior. That's saying quite a lot, considering the abysmal state of the mainstream culture in the U.S. generally. Young black males in a group, along with young hispantic males, tend to make me go from condition yellow to orange in a New York Minute...(as for racism, my wife is a Venezuelan national...a LEGAL immigant, BTW, so I don't think it's because I don't like Spanish-speakers..as I do myself). And while you're at it SPEAK PROPER ENGLISH!

Government empoloyees: How'd you like to turn your business over to one of these types to run? No motivation, entitlement mentality, often the west side of the I.Q. bell curve...

Cops....Good cop, intimidating cop (majority), rogue cop...

grandmotherly types: I overwhelmingly trust them at their word...

Lifelong farmers: Well versed in reality...see above....

"Homeless" people...bums, drunks, lazy S.O.B.s....again as in the category above, there are exceptions, but there aare exceptions to all generalizations.

In closing, gun people are great when it comes to making sweeping and hasty generalizations (two different kinds of logical fallacies, by the way). "Liberal" is what I've been called more times than I can count, simply because I call B.S. on the Republican Party line anymore. Likewise, Democrats are viewed as evil because of thier "tendency" to go with the left. This fallacy is called "bifurcation", or dividing aan issue into two diametrically opposing camps, or excluding the middle, but that is a topic for another day.

In summation, there is nothing inherently WRONG with stereotyping. The relevent question is do your stereotypes conform to reality? Do your judgements hold water? THAT is the problem with political correctness (I hope you all remember the origin of that expression) is that it calls for the SUSPENSION OF JUDGEMENT, which is a hallmark of this Age of Mediocrity. Ayn Rand, despite her faults, was spot-on in this identification of this progression of "non-judgementalism" back in the 1960s.

 

[Baba Louie]

BIA,
Don't think too much. Are you guilty of thinking about thinking?
Or are you thinking about what other people are thinking?
About what you're thinking?
No, this is about how you look to others. Right?

First impressions... kinda important to mankind. Oftentimes incorrect, but still and all, if it looks like a Sabertooth Tiger, approach with caution... Right? Same thing with a member of a different tribe.

Face it. Most non-gun owners here in the US (not ANOTHER stereotype, eh?) are all for freedom, it's just that they have Mice-sized Hearts and fear anyone who is stronger or more powerful than they are, and, who can defend against evil and ner-do-wells. unless, of course voted into office or wearing a badge and carrying a gun.

Maybe... Who knows?

And furthermore...

Who Cares? (j/k)

How do people stereotype me? Probably based on their first impressions until they get to know a little bit about me, or a lot more about me. Professional, yet comfortably grungey via attire at first impression. (Rumpled, they call it) "Stoic and Rumpled" when they get to know a little bit about me. Finally, after they get to know me better, "For the Love of Pete, won't you **** Baba Louie and act your age?" (said with love and affection, of course)

I could be wrong.

Nah

Who said "Perception is a Reality" (until proven otherwise)?

 

[White Horseradish]

2. I often wear work clothes that are patched, somewhat holy or stained.

Sounds like you work at a church. Ever get mistaken for a preacher?

 

[Barbara]

I probably do not look like a stereotypical gun owner.

The minivan always throws people off. If that doesn't, the suits usually do.

 

[f4t9r]

Its America , you can look and dress as you please. Thats why we have lost Soldiers so we can have Freedom. Take the tread for someones opinion not an opportunity to offend someone. Sure we all see someone and pass judgement and sometimes we are wrong. (not me of coarse)