steyr m95

[arkansashillbilly]

Gentlemen,
This is my first post. I'm a milsurp "junkgun" fanatic. I'm looking at getting a Steyr M95. I have two options "carbine", likely a cutdown rifle, or "stutzen". I figure both are from Bulgaria as that is apparently the most recent source of these and they are in 8x56R. However not being knowledgeable of Steyrs I don't know what the difference in a carbine and stutzen is. Can someone here educate me a bit?

 

[Paperpunchr]

Stutzen/Carbine

At this point there a good chance both are cut down from long rifles. I was researching on the web thinking about buying one (Steyr M.95 that is). Stutzen were intended for support troops behind the lines, Carbines originally were intended for those who were on horseback and needed something easier to handle than a long rifle. Guns Magazine in 2004 said:

The models most commonly available today are the M95 Carbine or the M95 Short Rifle, also known as the "Stutzen" model. The Stutzen model is distinguished from the similar looking M95 carbine by its bayonet lug, a stacking hook extending from the front stock band, and often (but not always) by sling swivels on both the side and underside of the stock. The carbine was designed for mounted cavalry deployment while the "Stutzen" was issued to artillery, signal and engineering personnel Both models are light and compact, weighing approximately 7 pounds or less and having a barrel length of 19.5 inches.
See the whole article at:
http://www.looksmarthunting.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_8_50/ai_n6081523


If it has a bayonet lug, and a stacking hook it's a Stutzen, if not it's a Carbine. Folks on horseback (or later in whatever the german equivalent of a Jeep was, or on a motorcycle) didn't apparently need a bayonet.

 

[Paperpunchr]

Long sight generally means it was a long rifle.

One other thought...if it has a long leaf sight it was probably cut down from a long rifle to make a stutzen or a carbine. Photos of original carbines I've seen show a leaf sight about 1 1/2 inches or less (hard to measure a photo) while the cut-downs have leaf sights that look to be a bit over 2 inches long.

I didn't buy the one I was looking at, by the way, the serial numbers had been filed off and re stamped to make it match, probably at an arsenal in Eastern europe, before the gun was re-blued.

 

[Jim K]

Stutzen (umlaut U) is the German word for "support", so the meaning is obvious. Cavalry didn't need bayonets. To use a rifle with a bayonet from horseback would be about impossible, and the old-time cavalryman used his saber as his primary weapon, his pistol as secondary. The carbine was used mainly when dismounted.

Jim

 

[longhorngunman]

If your not to keen on recoil I'd strongly suggest a recoil pad for this little jewel if you get one.

 

[rangerruck]

if you plan on regularly shooting this, you must get a recoil pad, as this is maybe the hardest hitting milsurp, ever. More so than even the might mosin tanker mod.

 

[Cosmoline]

She does kick a might ;-) Actually, most of the problem lies with the surplus ball, which ranks as the most potent WWII service ball this side of .50 BMG. It's a true magnum, though why they made it so powerful I have no idea. WIth sane handloads or the Graf stuff I suspect recoil will be a lot easier to deal with, though still on the stout side.

 

[arkansashillbilly]

Thanks for the info guys. I opted for the stutzen. I do love the recoil of a Mosin.
I actually like the ones with a bit of a punch to it. When friends come out to the range to shoot they only ask to try them out once or twice and then talk about it for the next six months at work. They then try to find something that kicks harder to let you try. Fun all around.

 

[Paperpunchr]

got a Budapest M.95

Found a decent deal at Big 5 Sporting goods, they sell Century Arms Milsurps at pretty good prices. The local dealers and gunshows wanted $195 to $215 for a Steyr-made M95 Stutzen...sorry, I can't find the umlaut on my keyboard...

Big 5 had them on sale for $119, and I picked out a good looking one with strong rifling, if a darkish bore. Time and thorough cleaning will tell how much is lead and copper and how much is actual erosion of the steel, but no serious pitting visible. The serials are pretty much all force-matched an most I've looked at (grind the old one off and strike in the new one...some I saw had this on the receiver to match the barrel, most had it on the bolt to match the receiver and on smaller parts as well.). The barrel and receiver on mine don't appear to be force-matched, the serials look original. The bolt looked like it could have been ground and renumberd two or three times, even, but there wasn't much wear on the bolt at any point.

The stock on mine showed no indication of rifle swivels on the underside or repairs of any kind, but had two earlier serial numbers above the current one...many I've looked at had fillers in the old swivel hole on the bottom of the buttstock...maybe this one was originally a carbine stock? Decent wood, only a few minor dings, arsenal re-blued (I looked at more than one that had been stripped to white and not reblued) minimal or no visible wear on the bolt and trigger contact points (arsenal rework was not obvious except for forcematching the serial on the bolt).

Instead of Steyr, the Austrian arsenal, my receiver was labelled Budapest, the Hungarian arsenal of the Austro-Hungarian empire...same design. No other indicators of history or provenance, other than the S-patronen stamp. Where Steyrs are stamped W-n for Vienna, and two-digit year of acceptance, this one looks like it's stamped Bu--st and either 08 or 18...hard to read.

Budapests apparently accounted for 35-40% of M95's...anyone have a feel for whether they are as well made as the Steyrs? Frankly it doesn't look like a gun made in the throes of desparate wartime production...very well finished on all the parts I've seen so far. I've seen a lot of toolmarks in my 1943 Enfield and Garand, but possibly on the M95 they were smoothed away in one or more arsenal rebuilds.

 

[longhorngunman]

Paper, mine is a budapest too. I got mine straight from Century for the same price. That's a great price on a Budapest for a chain store. Wish there was a Big 5 around here. The Budapests are suppossed to be a little more rare. Mine looks great externally but has a corroded bore. Only shot 10 rounds of it at 50 yards so far. Damn thing shoots way high and yep it has a very robust kick to it.

 

[Paperpunchr]

Got Ammo on order...will have to try.

I've got a Mosin M44 with a healthy kick, so I guess I have a rough idea of what to expect. Yeah, I thought the price was good...guess they use their milsurps as a loss leader to bring folks in and hopefully they buy other stuff. They've always been friendly/helpful at the two stores in town. Spent a couple of hours and half my chemical supplies trying to clean the bore last night...it's actually starting to shine a bit, so a lot of what looked like corrosion turns out to be layers of lead, copper, and powder residue. I't'll be a bout a week before the ammo and clips arrive to let me try it out....can't hardly wait, but no one in town seems to have the ammo.

The blade sight on mine looks very high, so I hope that means the high shooting battle sight has been compensated for at some point.

 

[.45Guy]

You know I always found the 95's to be tame compared to my FR8. The 95 was stout, yet pleasant.

 

[Paperpunchr]

M95 range report!

The ammo and clips arrived yesterday...Bulgarian 1941 in a 250 round tin...The paper wrappers were fragile, but the ammo stayed clean and dry in the can.

Seems to good to be true! The sights had already been corrected and not shooting high. If you flip up the ladder there's a sight at the bottom, a slider, and a notch at the top. The bottom notch was fine for close range; fold the leaf down and the regular notch is good at 100 yards. The Bulgarian ammo is surprisingly clean and consistant, no misfires even though it's 1941 production. Kick is strong but not unpleasantly so, I did a few rounds without the shotgun pad, and about 25 rounds with it, punches holes right through my steel plate swivel target. Almost no residue in the chamber, the shoulder seems to be sealing pretty tightly at the base of the neck. Action a little stiff but not unusually so for an arsenal rebuilt, I think. A lot of bang for the buck, and a lot of power on the receiving end.

Anybody know about reloading Bulgarian8x56R with euro style small primers? any of the primers available here? I'll try starting a new thread under reloading.

 

[arkansashillbilly]

I got mine in last week just before a business trip the next day. Did a quick cleaning and inspection and fired off five rounds out back to try out the recoil and see how it grouped. I only tried it out at my 50yd mound, but it grouped pretty well although it was a few inches high and to the right. Recoil was pleasantly sharp. Not as bad as I expected. I'm not sure that short Nagants are really any lighter punching and I'm certain one of my Enfields I got from Bubba is worse. I hope to have some time to take my time with it this weekend maybe try the 100yd mound. I also ordered some of the mil-surp ammo. Mine is headstamped 1939. They all went off just fine. I also picked up a couple of boxes of Hornady rounds. My next order will be some bullets and Lee dies so I can setup for reloading. I end up reloading for basically everything I own so I have some SP around for hunting with whatever I decide to shoot.

 

[Paperpunchr]

Steyr M-95 Hungarian bayonet.

Found a bayonet for it...made in Hungary as was the rifle...the vendor still has one more if anyone's interested, email me.
[email protected]

 

[Cosmoline]

Some of the bayonets on those things have a HIGH SIGHT built onto them! AFAIK, they're the only ones ever to do that. It drops the POI on the carbines to a much saner 100 meters I believe. Hopefully that's the one you got.

 

[40mmHEDP]

Big5 Sale M95

Just picked up a Budapest M95 at Big 5 They are on sale this week for $99 plus if you print out the 10% off cupon in the online weekly sales add it's only $89.

 

[jd46561]

This is an m95/34 Stutzen....

 

[Gordon]

What a beautiful piece of wood!! Exhibition grade for sure. That is the nicest looking milsurp, overall, I've seen yet - anywhere! Thanks for sharing!

 

[jd46561]

Thanks Gordon.

 

[dstorm1911]

Now thats a pretty Styer, as far as true carbine or Stutzen, a really easy identifier is the front sight, a real carbine will have a dovetailed front sight while a stutzen will have a banded front sight.

I have several carbines and two Stutzens, ALL of them have stacking hooks and Bayo mounts, the true carbines are all Budapest with all original stamped matching numbers. the Stutzens are both Styer as have been most of the ones I've seen, I've ran into one true carbine Styer and it too had the stacking hooks and bayo mount etc... the shorter rear sight is the next Carbine identifier, if its a true carbine stock then the cutout for the rear sight will also be shorter, I've ran into several that had carbine barrels in Stutzen stocks.

S.O.G is currently selling the 8x56R dated 1938-39 with Nazi stamped head on original clips for $2.64 per 10 rnds in the original boxes.

 

[mousewallrat]

Hi, my first post here...I also just bought a Steyr M95, with the bayonet lug, so I suppose it's a Stutzen...and was wondering who S.O.G. was that had the cheap ammo? Can you fill me in on that, it's a great price!

 

[leadcounsel]

Southern Ohio Gun

www.southernohiogun.com