Sticky Wicket

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In the mid 1990's I was an armored car guard in Jacksonville, FL. I frequented one of the Army/Navy stores when I got of work for the social discussions, not unlike the ones here, with some accquaintances of mine that worked there.
One evening after work, while still in my uniform but with an empty belt-slide holster. I was in the store talking to the evening manager a while before he closed up shop. I believe we were discussing a recent crime wave in the area.
A tall, heavy set (but not fat), black, boisterous man, who repeated himself often, came in. He said he wanted a box of .45's.
The clerk, having only one variety, put a box of UMC hard ball on the counter, and asked if there would be anything else?
The man asked to see a handgun in the display case, a stainless Beretta 92.
The clerk handed him the handgun after ensuring it was empty. He said it's not a .45 though. The man asked, "what the differance is?"
The clerk must have taken leave of his senses as he handed the man a box of ammo for the Beretta. The clerk put one of each round on the counter, side by side, and left both boxes open on the counter.:confused:
The man examined it closely. He then whirled sharply to his right, across my personal space (2 inches from my nose) and snapped the empty weapon at the dummy on the counter, containing all manner of military and civilian medals and pins.:eek:
I noticed him look several times at my empty hoster. Unknown to him, in the pocket under the holster rested my Nickel Colt Cobra, stoked with Winchester Silver Tip hollow points.
Now perceiving the man as a possible threat, I put my hand in my pocket while he examined the Beretta further, hoping I was wrong. I placed my thumb on the hammer so it would withdraw smoothly if I needed it to, and my target would be the top of his spine, bottom of his brain, as he stood on my strong side, beside me, also offering knee strike potential to his floating ribs, possibly opening the door to a Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint (LVNR), which leaves the combative unconcious, but is dangerous.
He then proceeded to remove the magazine, lock the slide to the rear, and examine the 9mm round again. He looked at the clerk, and at my empty holster, and placed the round on the follower of the magazine! No reasonable, prudent individual would load a round in a gun store's gun, unless he had less than honorable intentions. I had visions in my head about how this would go down. I figured, with only one round, he would put the gun to my head, demand money or else!
Just then, I noticed the clerk signaling me with he eyes to look behind him. He had removed his chief's special from it's scabbard, and was waving it in the direction I to which I should retreat.
I was having none of it! That had the potential to end very ugly. I saw the man putting the magazine home, when I did what he didn't expect, and saved his life.
Reaching with my weak hand, I blocked the magazine well, and said firmly, "Sir, don't load that weapon." My left (strong) hand had a good purchase on my Colt, incase it didn't work (the man was 300 lbs if he was an ounce, and a head and a half taller than me).
He placed the magazine and the weapon on the counter and the clerk holsted his own weapon so the man in question saw it. He asked "you had that gun out? You was gonna' shoot me?"
The clerk said that he was going to, if he had loaded that gun. He breathed a sigh of relief, paid for his box of UMC and left. We all went home as heathy as we started out the day. No one was perforated, no law suits, no police reports.
What would you have done different? What, other than being in uniform, off duty, could I have done better?
 
good thing you told him not to load that pistol!!! That was most definitely the right thing to do, you may have saved him from a world of hurt
 
Wow, very tough situation and you did very well in blocking him from loading the pistol. You are very lucky the man was simply an idiot and hostile....

It does make me wonder why a clerk would hand the man the magazine and the ammo. I've been to my fair share of gun stores (and worked more than my fair share of retail sales) and it seems to me the prudent thing to do wold be to remove the weapon from the case, verify the chamber is empty, remove the magazine, and then place the magazine back into the case. Customer can handle the firearm, but the magazine stays nice and far away under glass.

Yeah, I guess you could finagle a round into the chamber of a weapon without a magazine (in theory)... But the amount of tme it would take and weird ways you'd have to maipuate the thing would give everyone plenty of notice. And, yeah, someone could bring a loaded magazine of the right make and caliber and then load that..... but then they'd probably just bring the rest of the gun too.

The second question I have, is why the clerk who took the time to produce a weapon, didn't say something to the guy himself?:scrutiny:
 
While the guy was busy, snapping the empty weapon at the dummy on the counter, i would have picked up the box of 9mm ammo and either put it in my pocket or hand it to the clerk if in range.
 
I knew a guy a couple of years older than me. His dad had a hardware store we went to often. Our family business was across & up the street. I knew the clerk also. In a very similar situation the clerk was shot, the owner was shot & killed. I saw the clerk a few days ago & he brought up the shooting and some of the things that happened after.

For some strange reason I vividly remember what the weather was like that day.

I had another guy I know kill 1 guy & wound the other in self defense. He was second guessed by people that would have done the same thing. I would not second guess anything about your situation.

Later,
WNTFW
 
What would you have done different? What, other than being in uniform, off duty, could I have done better?

One of you should have said something much earlier, easier to stop a match before it's lit than after. As soon as he had the single round in his hand the counter person should have requested him to place the pistol on the counter. A simple, firm, friendly "it's an insurance liability issue" should have been enough. If it got to the point that one more move by the individual would have got him shot then he should have been cautioned well before that final move. Either the guy was very dumb or very clever, either he wasn't thinking, or was testing the boundaries. Something "should" have been said well before you said anything.

Just my distant armchair quarterbacking opinion, I wasn't there so hard to say much more.
 
wow... congrats on it working out.

I'm not sure i would've ventured into hand to hand range with a 300 lb gorilla, even if i had my hand on my BUG. if things had gone ugly, i think he'd have put the hurt on me all the while my presence precludes the clerk from taking action.

I don't know the clerk... I would hope he is a level headed enough guy to DRAW on the BG without automatically pulling the trigger. Then again, he did hand ammo and a gun to the guy. But everybody has blonde moments so let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'd probably have backed off and considered drawing on him also or at least backing up the clerk. At least say what you said in a loud, stern voice from a distance.

Still, glad it worked out ok.
 
the manager is a fool for having gun & ammo available at the same time. other than that, nice work.
 
Tepin, the owner agrees with you. The clerk was fired. He should have never handed the gun and ammo of the correct caliber to the man in question, but the idea is that he did. Could I count on him for good ideas to keep him from making a hole in my birthday suit?
I was surprised to hear no one suggested that I should leave. It's what I would have done if I had brains (which I have never been accused of).
After the snapping in my space, I was astounded that the event seemed to be unfolding before me and I could see myself as a hostage, and a clerk that was an unknown value, certainly under-accertive.
As for why the clerk let it get that far? I believe he genuinely wanted to shoot the man.
I know people that know this guy, and he is a criminal. He also has full blown AIDS so I'm glad I didn't get his blood on me.
You may not believe this, but I saw the BG on the range, still repeating himself, asking what kind of gun I was shooting. I was teaching a young lad to shoot, so we were using a S&W .22 auto. He boasted about him having a .45 (it was a Stallard Arms or Hi Point). He kept saying, "This a .45 man, it's a .45. I shoot you in the leg wid dis, they gonna hafta take yo leg off."
He came up to me later with a catastrophic failure and asked if the grip was supposed to be that way. I told him it was not, as it was blown about 3/4 and inch from the frame.
He wanted to know what was wrong and I told him "your gun blew up."
Apparently a round went off without the benifit of being in full battery, igniting a round or two in the magazine. He's lucky he has a working hand.
 
Oh lovely so he has AIDS too huh? Good thing you didnt have to shoot him back in the pawn shop, it would sure suck to get his infected nastiness in your eye or something. Some people.....
 
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