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Stiffed for the shipping by FFL dealer....

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by woad_yurt, Sep 19, 2008.

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  1. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Member

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    I recently bought a gun on Gunbroker and, when I got it, I saw that it had been altered, and badly, at that. Nowhere in the listing did it say that the gun was altered. It was a .32S&W that had had the chambers crudely drilled out all the way through the cylinder. No throat left at all. I don't think the guy knew until I told him. I sent it back and the guy didn't refund my shipping. I paid to have it shipped to me and back to him. When I contacted him, he said "Auction states money back, does not include shipping, Tks Tom."
    What it really said was "Return Policy 72 hours." I didn't change my mind; the gun was no good. He's a licensed dealer, too.

    I am steamed. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the rest of my money back?
     
  2. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    Return policy was 72 hours but according to the seller it states refund will be purchase price only, not shipping costs. Fairly common. Not sure you can do much if anything.

    Link to auction listing?
     
  3. striker3

    striker3 Member

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    If the item was not as described, then it is a fraudulent sale. Shipping both ways should be refunded.
     
  4. Rubble

    Rubble Member

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    Since there is no link to the auction its hard to have a complete opinion. You need to get Gunbroker involved with respect to the product net being as advertised, unless of course it said "as is" somewhere. Thats the only recourse I see. Of course giving a bad review will help others.
     
  5. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Member

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    Here 'tis, the link to the listing in question....

    Someone took the chambers and drilled them all the way through, leaving no throat at all. They probably did it generations ago to use .32S&W longs when they hit the scene. But, the case diameter is quite a bit larger (.020") than the bullet diameter in this caliber. It's a gun that would shoot at half velocity due to a big lack of seal around the bullet in the chamber.

    The 72 hour return policy doesn't apply in this case as I didn't change my mind and cancel the sale on a whim. The gun was defective and the listing mentioned nothing about it. Anyone looking at this listing would assume that the gun was good to go.

    Here's the listing:
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=108266152
     
  6. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    From the ad:

    If I were the seller I'd reimburse you for shipping both ways since the gun was not as described.

    Having said that, you have to remember that most 01 FFL's are not gunsmiths or machinists, and they may not recognize the kind of alteration or damage that you're describing. For this reason a lot won't deal in used guns or trades, only new ones where if there's a problem they can refer the purchaser to the manufacturer for warranty work.
     
  7. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    The cylinder isn't part of the bore.
     
  8. Norinco982lover

    Norinco982lover Member

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    it is a fraudulent sale. Reply to him and tell him it you understand that he may have missed that it has been altered but since he did not state that it is misrepresented and you will need shipping both ways paid for. Then report his reply to Gunbroker.
     
  9. ants

    ants Member

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    Caveat emptor ('buyer beware') generally prevails in common law where there is no specific agreement to remedy the dispute. Unless you can find a law regulating the return of shipping charges, I don't think you are protected.

    HOWEVER I found this in the sellers feedback:

    The seller has refunded shipping costs in the past when the item had an unknown problem. Remind him of his past kindness, and that you will give him positive feedback like 'groundpilot' if he refunds your shipping.
     
  10. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Member

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    He's not answering my emails or returning my phone calls.

    I've already told him that I'm assuming that he didn't know it had been messed with. Nevertheless, it's not my fault that this sale went south. He simply sold faulty goods without a mention that it was faulty. Any reasonable person reading that listing would assume that the gun was good.

    It's an integrity issue. I have worked for myself for a looong time and when I unknowingly supply/install faulty stuff for a customer, it's on me. It happens. A tiled over brand new but very defective shower valve body comes to mind. I had to bear the cost of replacement & a new tile job. That's the price of doing business.

    When a customer does nothing wrong and something is screwed up, I can't imagine telling the customer that they have to bear the cost of making it right while the one who supplied the faulty item, me, gets off scot free. I don't have the nerve. Now, if the customer supplied something that they wanted me to install and it turned out to be defective, that would be a different story entirely.
     
  11. atblis

    atblis Member

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    I 'd give him a little more time, and then I'd leave negative feedback. Sounds like he deserves it.

    On gunbroker, if somebody has one or more negatives regarding item condition, I won't bid on their stuff (if they've got one negative and have sold alot, ... maybe).
     
  12. Aguila Blanca

    Aguila Blanca Member

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    The 72-hour return policy certainly does apply. It's not for only if you change your mind. The 72 hours is an inspection period, to allow the buyer enough time to determine if the gun is or is not as they expected.

    In your case, it was not as expected. The ad certainly conveyed to me the impression that the gun was in excellent condition, so if the cylinder was as bad as you say, IMHO the gun was misrepresented.

    However, the terms in the ad do not discuss refunds of shipping costs, and apparently you didn't ask. Morally I believe the seller should reimburse your return shipping, at least. Legally I don't think you have a leg to stand on.
     
  13. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Woad - would you mind posting the name of the FFL's business, for those of us who might come in contact with them in the future? I'm in Maryland, and frequently looking for new shops. I'd like to avoid businesses that don't play fair, if it turns out that that's what this fella is indeed trying to do.
     
  14. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Member

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    I did post his info here for a few minutes but I'm now editing it out for the time being. He hasn't left feedback for me on Gunbroker yet and mine is presently 100% perfect. I'd like to keep it that way. I did complain to Gunbroker's customer service, however. I'll post it (his info) when I hear back from them.

    A few years back, I never got my item from a now-banned seller on eBay, so I posted a negative feedback. He, in turn, left a negative for me, wrecking my 100% rating. I haven't yet posted feedback on this particular guy, fearing that he's going to smear me in return. I told the Gunbroker folks about my worries regarding vindictive feedback from him if I do leave a negative. I'll let you folks know his info in a few days at the most. I just want to see what they say first.

    Just to be safe everybody, so you don't get stung like me: Don't buy a gun in Maryland for 2-3 days until I out the specific guy. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  15. atblis

    atblis Member

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    Dude

    Dude, that guy has horrible feedback on gunbroker. You should have read the negatvies

    11 negatives! Many regarding condition of item.

    No way in hell I'd even consider for a second buying from him

    etc. etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2008
  16. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Uh, wow. I'd really like to know who this guy is. I'm planning on hitting the local gun show in a few days, and it'd be great to know who to steer clear of.
     
  17. stolivar

    stolivar Member

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    you mean this guy

    Maryland Small Arms Range
    9311 Old Marlboro Pike
    Washington, DC 20001
    301-599-0800
     
  18. Snagglepuss

    Snagglepuss Member

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    You should go to the retail sales and feedback forum and repost. This guy sounds like a jerk.
     
  19. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    I don't know if this is "the guy" but that stuff above is a mis-match.

    1) there are no gun ranges in DC
    2) the phone is a Maryland, not a DC number (301 not 202)
    3) prior to a few days ago, there were NO FFL's in DC that dealt with the general public

    Correct information is:
    Maryland Small Arms Range
    9311 Old Marlboro Pike
    Upper Marlboro, MD 20772
    Phone: 1-800-792-6434
    301-599-0800
    Fax: 301-599-9642
    Email: SALES@MSAR.COM
    http://www.msar.com/
     
  20. stolivar

    stolivar Member

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    Sorry, that is what came up with reverse lookup

    enough said.


    their fault not mine.


    steve:what:
     
  21. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    Sellers like that make if bad for honest reputable sellers. Years ago and prior to GunBroker, I have purchased guns from out of state dealers. Never had a problem then. There was no way to post bad feed back then either. Folks were just more honest.
     
  22. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Member

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    I'm back again. Sorry I took so long.

    Gunbroker ID:
    9311bargains

    And the name on the FFL:
    NWI Inc.
    9311 Old Marlboro Pike
    Upper Marlboro, MD 20772
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2008
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