ScottsGT
Member
Can you get the internal door parts such as the locking bolts? That's the only hard part I'm having with building one. I don't have a lathe or access to one to turn my own.
Stop Procrastinating get a Safe/RSC
- Thread starter dtalley
- Start date
- Status
Can you get the internal door parts such as the locking bolts? That's the only hard part I'm having with building one. I don't have a lathe or access to one to turn my own.
I keep my guns in a big Canon safe. As the OP mentioned, my wife's son (not mine) has some slacker friends (in their 20s, no jobs...) in our house sometimes...
I occasionally find a cigar missing out of my humidor... that's all I've noticed so far
I occasionally find a cigar missing out of my humidor... that's all I've noticed so far
Chipperman
Member
Stick around here a little longer, and you will.
a1abdj
Member
Most of the time the bolts are just plain round stock that has been chrome plated. Anyplace that sells steel should have it available. Most modern day gun safes use 1" or 1.5", but you can get by with smaller.
If you need any pointers on designing the boltwork, let me know. It's not as difficult as you might think.
Lucky
Member
Could you post a quick summary? I'd love to see it! As well, how about using a car battery to electroplate, can that be done with chromium?
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Don't really need . . .
Well, as long as somebody doesn't "borrow" your hardware for a little late night larceny.
I hear some local and state gov outfits frown on that.
Your mileage, of course, may vary.
Well, as long as somebody doesn't "borrow" your hardware for a little late night larceny.
I hear some local and state gov outfits frown on that.
Your mileage, of course, may vary.
Ohio Rifleman
Member
I'd like to think that if someone tried to take my hardware by breaking into my home, they'd be more likely to leave with my bullets. Anyway, safes are really expensive...especially ones for long guns. I'm just a poor college student.
I sure hope so, Chipper.
'bout two years ago
I came home from a weekend away and found that my house had been burgled. My wife lost some jewelry, I lost some tools and some meds (good luck to 'em with those....hope they took 'em all. At once.).
Ran to the basement and checked my Cannon safe. They'd whacked the combination lock and door repeatedly with a sledgehammer (mine also) but they couldn't get in. PHEW. It's not big enough to hold all my reloading stuff, but they didn't mess with that.
My son had/has some shady friends. I really think they did it but we'll never know.
I took him aside next day and said that an attempt to steal my guns is, in my eyes, a direct threat to me and my family. And therefore, to tell his friends that since I carry at all times, if I come in the house and see someone at the safe I will already be shooting when they see me.
No problems since.
Then I bought a Ft. Knox Yeager safe. One ton. A real bugger to get into my basement, but they did it. Now between the two safes I can store all valuables and all weapons/ammo/reloading components, anything I wouldn't want to fall into a crook's hands. Cost me a bundle, but less than the value of our stuff if stolen, and way less than the cost to society if the BGs get my guns.
If we go away, all the jewelry goes in. Also any wine or liquor or meds. Also all my bamboo fly rods and reels. I sleep better. A good safe is a wise investment, and, I think, it's your duty as a gun owner to get one if you possibly can.
I came home from a weekend away and found that my house had been burgled. My wife lost some jewelry, I lost some tools and some meds (good luck to 'em with those....hope they took 'em all. At once.).
Ran to the basement and checked my Cannon safe. They'd whacked the combination lock and door repeatedly with a sledgehammer (mine also) but they couldn't get in. PHEW. It's not big enough to hold all my reloading stuff, but they didn't mess with that.
My son had/has some shady friends. I really think they did it but we'll never know.
I took him aside next day and said that an attempt to steal my guns is, in my eyes, a direct threat to me and my family. And therefore, to tell his friends that since I carry at all times, if I come in the house and see someone at the safe I will already be shooting when they see me.
No problems since.
Then I bought a Ft. Knox Yeager safe. One ton. A real bugger to get into my basement, but they did it. Now between the two safes I can store all valuables and all weapons/ammo/reloading components, anything I wouldn't want to fall into a crook's hands. Cost me a bundle, but less than the value of our stuff if stolen, and way less than the cost to society if the BGs get my guns.
If we go away, all the jewelry goes in. Also any wine or liquor or meds. Also all my bamboo fly rods and reels. I sleep better. A good safe is a wise investment, and, I think, it's your duty as a gun owner to get one if you possibly can.
cloudcroft
Member
Those Ft. Knox "Yeager" model safes are top-drawer.
Nice.
I couldn't bring myself to spring for that much $$$$ so I settled for a Liberty "Presidential" which is a nice safe, too, but not as nice as the Ft. Knox "Yeager."
-- John D.
Nice.
I couldn't bring myself to spring for that much $$$$ so I settled for a Liberty "Presidential" which is a nice safe, too, but not as nice as the Ft. Knox "Yeager."
-- John D.
Ben Shepherd
Member
By the way folks:
Quite a few insurance companies will give you a discount on your homeowner policy if you have a safe or RSC.
Quite a few insurance companies will give you a discount on your homeowner policy if you have a safe or RSC.
Fella's;
I too am a professional locksmith and also specialize in all aspects of safe safes, moving, etc. I've sold to fellow members of THR & would be glad to quote to any who'd like to investigate the costs of owning either an AMSEC RSC or a true safe.
In fact, any advice I can give concerning movement, placement, or suitablility is cheerfully provided by either A1a or myself, just do the search.
For those who don't think that they need concern themselves with firearms security, even if not involving a hard container, you're only fooling yourself I'm afraid. Listen to the people posting here that have had the experience of coming home & finding their domicile has been compromised. It can happen to you. It happens to more people more often than you think. And if it's generally known that you have no protection, you've just increased the chances that you're going to be a target by a large margin. There's people out there who'd steal the linoleum off your kitchen floor it they thought there was an advantage in it for them to do so.
You may not be able to buy a safe, but that's no reason not to secure your firearms in your home.
900F
I too am a professional locksmith and also specialize in all aspects of safe safes, moving, etc. I've sold to fellow members of THR & would be glad to quote to any who'd like to investigate the costs of owning either an AMSEC RSC or a true safe.
In fact, any advice I can give concerning movement, placement, or suitablility is cheerfully provided by either A1a or myself, just do the search.
For those who don't think that they need concern themselves with firearms security, even if not involving a hard container, you're only fooling yourself I'm afraid. Listen to the people posting here that have had the experience of coming home & finding their domicile has been compromised. It can happen to you. It happens to more people more often than you think. And if it's generally known that you have no protection, you've just increased the chances that you're going to be a target by a large margin. There's people out there who'd steal the linoleum off your kitchen floor it they thought there was an advantage in it for them to do so.
You may not be able to buy a safe, but that's no reason not to secure your firearms in your home.
900F
SSN Vet
Member
not sitting on an arsenal (yet)...
But....what's the consensus of the forum on SECRECY!
Quick story....went with my friend to his family cabin in MI UP...they know their cabin get's broken into every winter and used as a teen ager party spot.....but there's not much of interest to steel and aside from the mess....not great loss. We went plinking in the woods and I was suprised to see that they kept the guns their year round.....in a HIDING SPOT!!! which was a carefully guarded secret.
Our house is not grand central station. We often have guests over for dinner, but they don't get a tour of the house. I'm the "handy hubbie" so the only service person to come is the furnace guy (from the local family owned company).
I DO NOT ADVERTISE THAT I OWN FIREARMS!!
so I'm inclined to go the route of a hidden wall in the back of a closet....
Unless a safe is concealed.....I can't help thinking it would draw attention to a opportunistic thief.
as for someone coming with a shopping list....Loose Lips Sink Ships.....even ships made of steel.
what are the thoughts out there re. secret hiding places.
But....what's the consensus of the forum on SECRECY!
Quick story....went with my friend to his family cabin in MI UP...they know their cabin get's broken into every winter and used as a teen ager party spot.....but there's not much of interest to steel and aside from the mess....not great loss. We went plinking in the woods and I was suprised to see that they kept the guns their year round.....in a HIDING SPOT!!! which was a carefully guarded secret.
Our house is not grand central station. We often have guests over for dinner, but they don't get a tour of the house. I'm the "handy hubbie" so the only service person to come is the furnace guy (from the local family owned company).
I DO NOT ADVERTISE THAT I OWN FIREARMS!!
so I'm inclined to go the route of a hidden wall in the back of a closet....
Unless a safe is concealed.....I can't help thinking it would draw attention to a opportunistic thief.
as for someone coming with a shopping list....Loose Lips Sink Ships.....even ships made of steel.
what are the thoughts out there re. secret hiding places.
kungfuhippie
Member
Back when I got into guns and just purshased one. I didn't want it common knowledge that I had a firearm for many reasons, including theft. There are some shady cousins, etc. that could end up at our house and I didn't want it advertised. I explained to mom why I didn't want it advertised.
BIG MISTAKE:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
fastest comunication in the world is; TELE-WOMAN
My uncle in Flordia (who I've seen maybe three times) knew within a week. People at church started to prod with questions. I always just shake off their questions, and retarded remarks (remember I live in PRK). I'd say "don't ask don't tell" is a very good phylosophy. If no one knows its there no one will seek it.
But I still have that thought in the back of my head of my recently released meth-head cousin coming by late at night kicking in the door and looking for a gun that's known to be there. So basically, I've got a locking case but don't have the green for a safe yet. I lock the guns in a case (hidden too) lock the bolts in a separate box in a serarate hiding place, and lock up the ammo in a separate place, hidden too. If cousin meth-head does get my rifles they'll have to look for the bolts too, pick-break another lock, then worry about the trigger locks/cable locks through the actions. Then find bullets. It's not perfect, and any person with two working arms can steal my guns. But they'll probably only steal part. And knowing they had a bunch of boltless guns would help me get over being robbed.
BIG MISTAKE:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
fastest comunication in the world is; TELE-WOMAN
My uncle in Flordia (who I've seen maybe three times) knew within a week. People at church started to prod with questions. I always just shake off their questions, and retarded remarks (remember I live in PRK). I'd say "don't ask don't tell" is a very good phylosophy. If no one knows its there no one will seek it.
But I still have that thought in the back of my head of my recently released meth-head cousin coming by late at night kicking in the door and looking for a gun that's known to be there. So basically, I've got a locking case but don't have the green for a safe yet. I lock the guns in a case (hidden too) lock the bolts in a separate box in a serarate hiding place, and lock up the ammo in a separate place, hidden too. If cousin meth-head does get my rifles they'll have to look for the bolts too, pick-break another lock, then worry about the trigger locks/cable locks through the actions. Then find bullets. It's not perfect, and any person with two working arms can steal my guns. But they'll probably only steal part. And knowing they had a bunch of boltless guns would help me get over being robbed.
arthurcw
Member
Ok.. here's a poser for you.
I rent half a duplex. I can't really get a big safe in here. Anything I could get in here and mount would seem to me to be little more than a convenient "carry out bag" for a robber. It bugs me. I REALLY want a BAS (Big A$$ Safe) but I can't think of a good way to do it.
Does bolting one of those smaller cabinets to a wall make any sense?
Can anyone come up with any other way to secure my long arms other that a safe?
I rent half a duplex. I can't really get a big safe in here. Anything I could get in here and mount would seem to me to be little more than a convenient "carry out bag" for a robber. It bugs me. I REALLY want a BAS (Big A$$ Safe) but I can't think of a good way to do it.
Does bolting one of those smaller cabinets to a wall make any sense?
Can anyone come up with any other way to secure my long arms other that a safe?
ScottsGT
Member
No problem. Look in the back of some of the NRA magazines. There is a safe company that advertises a safe that bolts together from the inside and can be disassembled for moving. Nosey neighbors have no idea your moving a gun safe into your new apartment.
arthurcw
Member
I guess it pays to look at the adds.
gotta go dig up my American Rifleman and take a gander. THANKS!!!
gotta go dig up my American Rifleman and take a gander. THANKS!!!
arthurcw
Member
well... I just looked at the one A.R. that I could find. The election issue. BLEH! could not find it in there. Googling as I type. If anyone has any more info, please send it on.
thanks
thanks
Chipperman
Member
Zanotti safes are EXPENSIVE
Go buy a small sentry safe - you can get them around 20 x 16 inches by 5 ft tall - bolt it to a couple studs, to the floor if you can, in a closet is even better. Don't ask "can I drill holes" just do it holes fill real easy with caulk when you move. You can move it yourself with a dolly - I did so almost anyone can.
If anyone asks say its for computer disks or camers stuff altho camera are highly sought after theft items also.
Then cover it with a sheet.
Better than nothing.
Go buy a small sentry safe - you can get them around 20 x 16 inches by 5 ft tall - bolt it to a couple studs, to the floor if you can, in a closet is even better. Don't ask "can I drill holes" just do it holes fill real easy with caulk when you move. You can move it yourself with a dolly - I did so almost anyone can.
If anyone asks say its for computer disks or camers stuff altho camera are highly sought after theft items also.
Then cover it with a sheet.
Better than nothing.
arthurcw
Member
YOINKS! They are pricey.
I may just eat the security deposit and get a smaller "safe" and bolt it in a closet. I guess after a few K rounds and the guns that 300 pounds could easily get up to 400+ and make the smash and grabbers think twice.
When I own a home and don't have to worry about moving it, I'm getting a big honkin' safe.
I hate this hobby.
I may just eat the security deposit and get a smaller "safe" and bolt it in a closet. I guess after a few K rounds and the guns that 300 pounds could easily get up to 400+ and make the smash and grabbers think twice.
When I own a home and don't have to worry about moving it, I'm getting a big honkin' safe.
I hate this hobby.
Mannlicher
Member
some of us need to be slapped in the face before we cover our bases. Some of us don't. Glad you got your stuff back. you were darn lucky.
This is part of my storage:
This is part of my storage:
Car Knocker
Member
A little lightweight spackle, a dab of paint, and no one will ever notice bolt holes in a closet wall.
cloudcroft
Member
arthurcw,
"Does bolting one of those smaller cabinets to a wall make any sense?"
Definitely...it is a MUST.
But I wouldn't get a gun "cabinet"...they are made of sheet metal basically, like lockers in a gym or at school...even a large screwdriver may pry them open, bolted to the wall/floor or not. A safe is plate steel and more pry-resistant.
Yes, both could be battered with a sledge-hammer, as noted above in this thread, but we could go on and on how someone who WANTS to could get into your safe -- even the most expensive ones out there -- I'm just talking about something better than a closet or drawer, and showing "the authorities" you TRIED to secure your guns responsibly. Still, even a bolted-down lower-end safe would deter most smash-and-grab thieves (just try not to have tools available for them to use!).
I rent also (apartment), but I don't see why renting a duplex precludes you getting a serious (heavy) safe. Expense, yes, I can see that, but not the size or that it needs to be bolted-down should stop you.
My Liberty Presidential 25 is the small one (at almost 1000 pounds) but size-wise it fits through an average front door just fine. I suspect the larger Liberty Presidential 50 (1500 pounds) will also fit...it's the serious weight that makes moving it difficult, not that it's too big physically.
But if you wanted to "imitate" a very large bulky safe, you could get 2 or 3 smaller safes -- like the 14-gun rated Sentry G4211s (or larger) for example -- and bolt them together...which would make them very bulky to move out a door even with a dolly if they were not bolted-down (which they SHOULD be).
Furthermore, putting stuff in them to make them VERY HEAVY would also help.
In my case, renting, I have literally bullet-proof walls (mission-stone/dense concrete blocks for walls, no 2x4 framing with sheetrock) and a concrete slab floor. To drill holes in either -- and 4 large holes in the carpeting -- would be difficult and I don't want to make that an issue with the apartment manager. So I have to depend on the weight to keep it in place...and the fact that a Sentry G4211 is bolted to the Liberty to add physical bulk.
In most cases, as others have said, bolting a smaller (or lighter) safe to the wall is the best thing you can do even if renting, and you can repair the holes fairly easily when you move. A non-bolted-down safe it out the door...the "carry-out-bag" you mentioned.
So get something like a reasonably-priced Sentry G4211 (about $400...got mine online from WalMart since they were not in stock at the store) or a Stack-On (almost identical to the Sentry, probably made in the very same factory) from Sports Authority and bolt it to the wall studs. Use it NOW until you get a better safe later on and when you do, you still might find use for the first safe such as I do: The fire-rated Liberty is for my guns and other valuables/papers and stuff I put into it when I leave town for the weekend (so get a safe a bit larger than you think you need for those "extras"), but the Sentry is for ammo only...and lead ingots used for casting and bags of birdshot, all of which help make the Sentry heavier. And since it's bolted to the 1000-pound Liberty, it makes a serious monolith to move.
At least it's better than "hiding" them...thieves know ALL the places to look so I wouldn't expect that to help a whole lot.
Yes, the Sentry G4211 is not fire-rated at all, but after spending some bucks for the Liberty, I just needed a similar-sized "lockbox" for my ammo. Up until then, my ammo was just in GI ammo cans stacked in a closet, making it real easy for a thief to find and VERY convenient to move with the handles...and the 30/50 caliber ammo boxes are not overly-heavy, even if filled with ammo.
Anyway, it's a combination of things/strategies you can do that will help protect your stuff.
That, and the renter's insurance I hope you have...I do!
-- John D.
P.S. One downside of renting is the "maintenance guys" (of very dubious backgrounds) coming in every once in a while for this or that...they soon know one has a safe(s) so there is no real way of keeping it a secret here. What does seem to help is making small casual mention of what would happen to anyone caught in said apartment who shouldn't be there. So apartment staff here know I have safes and also that I am armed, and unless it's a real emergency, they do not come in when I am not here...I guess in order to avoid some "misunderstanding." Being a no-nonsense ex combat vet (with some PTSD traits) helps people understand that it really better be worth it to hit my place.
-- JD
"Does bolting one of those smaller cabinets to a wall make any sense?"
Definitely...it is a MUST.
But I wouldn't get a gun "cabinet"...they are made of sheet metal basically, like lockers in a gym or at school...even a large screwdriver may pry them open, bolted to the wall/floor or not. A safe is plate steel and more pry-resistant.
Yes, both could be battered with a sledge-hammer, as noted above in this thread, but we could go on and on how someone who WANTS to could get into your safe -- even the most expensive ones out there -- I'm just talking about something better than a closet or drawer, and showing "the authorities" you TRIED to secure your guns responsibly. Still, even a bolted-down lower-end safe would deter most smash-and-grab thieves (just try not to have tools available for them to use!).
I rent also (apartment), but I don't see why renting a duplex precludes you getting a serious (heavy) safe. Expense, yes, I can see that, but not the size or that it needs to be bolted-down should stop you.
My Liberty Presidential 25 is the small one (at almost 1000 pounds) but size-wise it fits through an average front door just fine. I suspect the larger Liberty Presidential 50 (1500 pounds) will also fit...it's the serious weight that makes moving it difficult, not that it's too big physically.
But if you wanted to "imitate" a very large bulky safe, you could get 2 or 3 smaller safes -- like the 14-gun rated Sentry G4211s (or larger) for example -- and bolt them together...which would make them very bulky to move out a door even with a dolly if they were not bolted-down (which they SHOULD be).
Furthermore, putting stuff in them to make them VERY HEAVY would also help.
In my case, renting, I have literally bullet-proof walls (mission-stone/dense concrete blocks for walls, no 2x4 framing with sheetrock) and a concrete slab floor. To drill holes in either -- and 4 large holes in the carpeting -- would be difficult and I don't want to make that an issue with the apartment manager. So I have to depend on the weight to keep it in place...and the fact that a Sentry G4211 is bolted to the Liberty to add physical bulk.
In most cases, as others have said, bolting a smaller (or lighter) safe to the wall is the best thing you can do even if renting, and you can repair the holes fairly easily when you move. A non-bolted-down safe it out the door...the "carry-out-bag" you mentioned.
So get something like a reasonably-priced Sentry G4211 (about $400...got mine online from WalMart since they were not in stock at the store) or a Stack-On (almost identical to the Sentry, probably made in the very same factory) from Sports Authority and bolt it to the wall studs. Use it NOW until you get a better safe later on and when you do, you still might find use for the first safe such as I do: The fire-rated Liberty is for my guns and other valuables/papers and stuff I put into it when I leave town for the weekend (so get a safe a bit larger than you think you need for those "extras"), but the Sentry is for ammo only...and lead ingots used for casting and bags of birdshot, all of which help make the Sentry heavier. And since it's bolted to the 1000-pound Liberty, it makes a serious monolith to move.
At least it's better than "hiding" them...thieves know ALL the places to look so I wouldn't expect that to help a whole lot.
Yes, the Sentry G4211 is not fire-rated at all, but after spending some bucks for the Liberty, I just needed a similar-sized "lockbox" for my ammo. Up until then, my ammo was just in GI ammo cans stacked in a closet, making it real easy for a thief to find and VERY convenient to move with the handles...and the 30/50 caliber ammo boxes are not overly-heavy, even if filled with ammo.
Anyway, it's a combination of things/strategies you can do that will help protect your stuff.
That, and the renter's insurance I hope you have...I do!
-- John D.
P.S. One downside of renting is the "maintenance guys" (of very dubious backgrounds) coming in every once in a while for this or that...they soon know one has a safe(s) so there is no real way of keeping it a secret here. What does seem to help is making small casual mention of what would happen to anyone caught in said apartment who shouldn't be there. So apartment staff here know I have safes and also that I am armed, and unless it's a real emergency, they do not come in when I am not here...I guess in order to avoid some "misunderstanding." Being a no-nonsense ex combat vet (with some PTSD traits) helps people understand that it really better be worth it to hit my place.
-- JD
arthurcw
Member
I am humbled by the assumption of my abilities for home improvement.
I once tried to paint a ceiling and it fell in on me.
I once tried to put up sheet rock... it fell down.
Let’s not even talk about the bathroom and the surround I tried to put in.
God gave me many gifts. Among the list is not, "making walls look nice."
I realize I surrender manhood points for this. I can deal. But once bitten, twice shy. Thrice bitten and I know when to surrender.
Holes I can do. I'm a wiz at putting holes in walls. Holes practically follow me around asking, “Now? Can we get in that wall now? PLEASE?” I think we'll just leave the repairing holes to those with a 'white thumb".
Maybe I can just sell the holes to the Land Lord as, "a new pre-drilled feature for model XXXX safe."
Or heck... maybe she'll buy the safe. The next place is gonna be mortgage not lease so I'll be needing a bigger one any way.
*Arthur, who hangs head in shame and goes back to pretending that he doesn’t make Tim Taylor look like Bob Vila.*
arthurcw
Member
cloudcroft,
I really like the idea of bolting multiples together.
As for maintenance people. The LL pretty much schedules maintenance with me. And since I work from home, I get to ride rough shot over anyone who comes to work on either side of the duplex. The safe is mainly for weekends away and would probably get laptops and other things thrown in it.
Thanks for all the help.
I really like the idea of bolting multiples together.
As for maintenance people. The LL pretty much schedules maintenance with me. And since I work from home, I get to ride rough shot over anyone who comes to work on either side of the duplex. The safe is mainly for weekends away and would probably get laptops and other things thrown in it.
Thanks for all the help.
- Status