Clipper
Member
That's great...
Stop Shooting Dogs!
- Thread starter El Tejon
- Start date
- Status
That's great...
El Tejon
Member
Tall Pine, thank you, it is exactly the shoot first ask questions later attitude that I am addressing.
Just because you have a gun does not mean you get to shoot. I first saw this attitude when I had a seminar at Northwestern. A rancher in Wyoming blew the top of a kid's head off with a .338. The rancher thought he was shooting at the neighbor's dog.
"Eye kin shoot anythang on meye land" will get you a new roomie.
Think twice, shoot once.
Just because you have a gun does not mean you get to shoot. I first saw this attitude when I had a seminar at Northwestern. A rancher in Wyoming blew the top of a kid's head off with a .338. The rancher thought he was shooting at the neighbor's dog.
"Eye kin shoot anythang on meye land" will get you a new roomie.
Think twice, shoot once.
siglite
Member
Many years ago, I had to shoot a dog.
It and it's buddy came upon me and my wife (she was my gf at the time) while we were squirrel hunting. Both dogs were barking, snarling, and acting extremely aggressive. With my single shot .22, I figured I was in trouble because I had one shot, and there were two dogs. I was thinking I'd have to shoot one, and club the other. When the most aggressive of the two lunged, I shot. It decided it wasn't such a good idea to continue the fight and turned and ran. The other dog evaluated the situation as I was reloading and followed suit.
I have no idea what happened to the lead dog. I have no idea where they came from, or where they went. But I can tell you right now, I felt perfectly justified in the shooting. That lead dog at least, WAS GOING to attack, and possibly in the act of attacking when I took my shot.
This woman will never satisfactorily prove to a jury that she was in imminent mortal fear of a shih tzu.
It and it's buddy came upon me and my wife (she was my gf at the time) while we were squirrel hunting. Both dogs were barking, snarling, and acting extremely aggressive. With my single shot .22, I figured I was in trouble because I had one shot, and there were two dogs. I was thinking I'd have to shoot one, and club the other. When the most aggressive of the two lunged, I shot. It decided it wasn't such a good idea to continue the fight and turned and ran. The other dog evaluated the situation as I was reloading and followed suit.
I have no idea what happened to the lead dog. I have no idea where they came from, or where they went. But I can tell you right now, I felt perfectly justified in the shooting. That lead dog at least, WAS GOING to attack, and possibly in the act of attacking when I took my shot.
This woman will never satisfactorily prove to a jury that she was in imminent mortal fear of a shih tzu.
MCgunner
Member
Well, I've had many problems with dogs killing my cats. There's a pack of wild ones roaming the area, still. They cornered two fishermen wade fishing the bay in front of my house and the cops came, but the dogs split the scene. Fishermen were armed with cell phones and 911. This same pack took down several expensive exotic sheep a guy I know was raising not far from here just out of the city limits. He shot three of 'em, but the rest of the pack got away. I've caught these dogs in the act, three times, on my front porch. I was attacked by one in the yard and shot it. I will say no more, still fighting it.
I keep the cats around to take care of my rat problems and they do a great job. Ain't seen a rat in a while, but they're almost more trouble than they're worth, though I like 'em as pets. Had it all to do over again, I'd just invest in rat poison, but I like animals, just don't like being attacked by big dogs who kill my cats. Do I not have a right to self defense? I even have the right to defense of property in this state and I can't help it if the stupid animal control overpaid morons can't take care of the problem or that people won't obey the leash laws in this town. It's getting to the point that dogs have more rights than humans. If you really wanna arrest somebody, arrest the ones that ignore leash laws and let them roam or dump the pups off out in the country to go wild and cause problems because they can't get the danged dog fixed. There is a certain amount of responsibility to owning a dog, ya know. It can't just go around killing people's live stock and pets and attacking people. NO, you shouldn't shoot a non-threatening dog just because it's on your property, just run it off, done that a bazillion times around here. So long as the dog doesn't attack me or I don't catch it killin' my property, cats, and I mean I just ran those wild dogs off, though if I could have gotten a clear shot at one, I might have taken it. You just can't shoot just any direction in town. You are quite responsible for where that bullet goes after it leaves the barrel. Some folks that advocate shotgun slugs and magnum revolvers and AKs and ARs in apartments and crowded neighborhoods on this board don't seem to know that, either.
I keep the cats around to take care of my rat problems and they do a great job. Ain't seen a rat in a while, but they're almost more trouble than they're worth, though I like 'em as pets. Had it all to do over again, I'd just invest in rat poison, but I like animals, just don't like being attacked by big dogs who kill my cats. Do I not have a right to self defense? I even have the right to defense of property in this state and I can't help it if the stupid animal control overpaid morons can't take care of the problem or that people won't obey the leash laws in this town.
It's getting to the point that dogs have more rights than humans. If you really wanna arrest somebody, arrest the ones that ignore leash laws and let them roam or dump the pups off out in the country to go wild and cause problems because they can't get the danged dog fixed. There is a certain amount of responsibility to owning a dog, ya know. It can't just go around killing people's live stock and pets and attacking people. NO, you shouldn't shoot a non-threatening dog just because it's on your property, just run it off, done that a bazillion times around here. So long as the dog doesn't attack me or I don't catch it killin' my property, cats, and I mean I just ran those wild dogs off, though if I could have gotten a clear shot at one, I might have taken it. You just can't shoot just any direction in town. You are quite responsible for where that bullet goes after it leaves the barrel. Some folks that advocate shotgun slugs and magnum revolvers and AKs and ARs in apartments and crowded neighborhoods on this board don't seem to know that, either.
ATAShooter
Member
If they keep their dogs where they are supposed to be, they wouldn't get greased. I take every precaution to keep my dog secured. And if it goes to someone else's house and reeks havock, it deserves to be plugged. I'm gonna keep poppin 'em , cats included. I don't want my pet shot, so I keep it at home. Suggest the same. Now, I would like to add, one that is just "cutting thru, or moving on", I leave be. Only when they are causing a problem or nuisance, do I do what I got to. A dog barking next door, no.
ATAShooter
Member
Shih Tzu ??? ah, 'bout a 50 Barrett should do it...
elrod
Member
Got to be much, much more to this story than is being told. But to shoot from the window of a house at a Shih-tzu, of all things, is nothing short of sheer stupidity. With a .357, no less!
MCgunner
Member
.50 BMG is find for Shih Tzu, but I've been told on this board it takes nothing short of a 105mm howitzer to take down a bear in Alaska. I don't think I wanna move there.
gunsmith
member
Not all Shih Tzu are harmless
Look at these fierce dogs commandering(SIC) a bus stop, if that doesn't inspire fear, I don't know what would!
Look at these fierce dogs commandering(SIC) a bus stop, if that doesn't inspire fear, I don't know what would!
sm
member
Support El Tejon's gun buying and training fund : Whip it out and start blasting.
I am not sure whether to blame the demise of Drive-In Picture Shows, the addition of Flouride to water, or what!
Still something has affected common sense.
We have always had dawgs, and guns.
We have always had rabid dawgs and packs of dawgs running in the rural areas that to be dealt with, same as feral cats and other "pests and threats".
NO mandatory lease laws so the Gubmint would take care of folks, no 911, no nothing.
Now, mess with another person's dawg, would get one in trouble fast!
Folks can "laugh" or "dispute" some of the laws on the books, still some are not stupid and were not passed by "emotion" or "band aid fix".
Q. Why was there a law against spitting on the sidewalk?
A. TB [Tuberculosis ] is airborne. So spit on the sidewalk, spittle dries, someone steps , kicks, shuffles and the spores are airborne and others breath thes TB spores.
A little common sense, courtesy, whether you have a dawg, or around a dawg.
You do not mess with a man's bird dawg, that is his dawg, and trained...you will be asked to leave, and never be invited to hunt with him, and/or on his property again.
What are folks being raised to know these days? Is it all Shoot 'em up and TeeVee, Movie, and Video Game BS?
My niece was attacked by a dawg, her mom and dad trying to dial 911 on $#@# cell phones. *sigh*
Older neighbor, hobbled over and took a stick to the mean , mangy stray.
I've tripped trigger in dawgs in packs, rabid, in rural areas, still WE had a plan, zones of fire and the legal go ahead to do so.
In the city...I've thrown down a glass bottle, and that scared a threatening dawg.
Had to clean up glass, still the folks understood and respected my decision.
I had a rake handy for the next step if needed.
MY default is not guns, and shooting. Paying attention, avoiding, evading and doing anything I can to not have to shoot.
And folks wonder why some folks are Anti gun, sit on the fence or want nothing to do with guns?
Gun owners do more harm to themselves than the anti's do.
I am not sure whether to blame the demise of Drive-In Picture Shows, the addition of Flouride to water, or what!
Still something has affected common sense.
We have always had dawgs, and guns.
We have always had rabid dawgs and packs of dawgs running in the rural areas that to be dealt with, same as feral cats and other "pests and threats".
NO mandatory lease laws so the Gubmint would take care of folks, no 911, no nothing.
Now, mess with another person's dawg, would get one in trouble fast!
Folks can "laugh" or "dispute" some of the laws on the books, still some are not stupid and were not passed by "emotion" or "band aid fix".
Q. Why was there a law against spitting on the sidewalk?
A. TB [Tuberculosis ] is airborne. So spit on the sidewalk, spittle dries, someone steps , kicks, shuffles and the spores are airborne and others breath thes TB spores.
A little common sense, courtesy, whether you have a dawg, or around a dawg.
You do not mess with a man's bird dawg, that is his dawg, and trained...you will be asked to leave, and never be invited to hunt with him, and/or on his property again.
What are folks being raised to know these days? Is it all Shoot 'em up and TeeVee, Movie, and Video Game BS?
My niece was attacked by a dawg, her mom and dad trying to dial 911 on $#@# cell phones. *sigh*
Older neighbor, hobbled over and took a stick to the mean , mangy stray.
I've tripped trigger in dawgs in packs, rabid, in rural areas, still WE had a plan, zones of fire and the legal go ahead to do so.
In the city...I've thrown down a glass bottle, and that scared a threatening dawg.
Had to clean up glass, still the folks understood and respected my decision.
I had a rake handy for the next step if needed.
MY default is not guns, and shooting. Paying attention, avoiding, evading and doing anything I can to not have to shoot.
And folks wonder why some folks are Anti gun, sit on the fence or want nothing to do with guns?
Gun owners do more harm to themselves than the anti's do.
bogie
Member
Noticed another thing - The lady _thought_ she had the ground as a backstop. Ain't necessarily so. Bullets get fairly bouncy, and can go in darn near any direction. I've seen .223 ricochet (over a berm...) after hitting the ground. And the interesting part is that those were varmint bullets, not FMJ...
And for the newbies - yeah, if you're behind the shooter, you can see the trail left by the bullet, especially at longer distances...
I've also run into dog packs, and those are justifiable. But shooting a dog that you KNOW belongs to a neighbor instead of calling the authorities is just WAY too damn trailer park.
And for the newbies - yeah, if you're behind the shooter, you can see the trail left by the bullet, especially at longer distances...
I've also run into dog packs, and those are justifiable. But shooting a dog that you KNOW belongs to a neighbor instead of calling the authorities is just WAY too damn trailer park.
punchdrunk
Member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2007
- Messages
- 87
clearly using a hockey stick and working on your slap shot would be the right thing to do.
If someone is stupid enough to do this crime. I wonder what the first words out of their mouth were when they realized what they had done?
think they went defensive? " told ya to keep your dog out" or maybe just let the F bomb drop knowing they were in serious do-do?
If someone is stupid enough to do this crime. I wonder what the first words out of their mouth were when they realized what they had done?
think they went defensive? " told ya to keep your dog out" or maybe just let the F bomb drop knowing they were in serious do-do?
sm
member
Yep!
Too many folks do not Investigate or Verify anything for themselves.
All it would take would be to have safe areas to actually shoot some media - and take note - it does not always do the same thing each time.
Odd, real odd. One Teevee Show, Movie or Video game shows how ground is a back stop, and the next one shows how it skips.
It never dawns on folks, there is no guarantee something will do what it is supposed to do.
The lesson was shooting under a vehicle, or low cover and "skipping" a bullet.
Same gun, ammo, vehicle, and the bullets did not always do the same thing...back stop had a target and the wholes showed all sorts of "paths" after skipping.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Clipper,You Owe Me an Apology
Torturing animals includes shooting whether death results or not. Two of the legislators who were involved with the passage of this statute are personal friends/neighbors of mine. I got it straight from the horse's.....mouth. Alabama:
ALA. CODE 13A-11-14 --Last amended 2000
Definition of Animal: Dog or cat shall mean any domesticated member of the
dog or cat family
Statute Summary: A person commits the crime of cruelty to animals if the
person:
Overloads, overdrives, deprives of necessary sustenance or shelter,
unnecessarily or cruelly beats, injures, mutilates, or causes the same to
be done; intentionally tortures any dog or cat or skins a domestic dog or
cat or offers for sale or exchange or offers to buy or exchange the fur, or
pelt of a domestic dog or cat.
Cruelty to a dog or cat:
Class A Misdemeanor
Fine up to $1000
Intentionally tortures any dog or cat:
Class C Felony
Fine up to $5000
Imprisonment up to 10 years
Forfeiture of Animal/Seizure: Both
Other Sentencing Provisions: Cost of Care.
Exemptions: Research, protection of life or property, training; shoots dog
or cat with BB gun for defecating/urinating on property.
Torturing animals includes shooting whether death results or not. Two of the legislators who were involved with the passage of this statute are personal friends/neighbors of mine. I got it straight from the horse's.....mouth. Alabama:
ALA. CODE 13A-11-14 --Last amended 2000
Definition of Animal: Dog or cat shall mean any domesticated member of the
dog or cat family
Statute Summary: A person commits the crime of cruelty to animals if the
person:
Overloads, overdrives, deprives of necessary sustenance or shelter,
unnecessarily or cruelly beats, injures, mutilates, or causes the same to
be done; intentionally tortures any dog or cat or skins a domestic dog or
cat or offers for sale or exchange or offers to buy or exchange the fur, or
pelt of a domestic dog or cat.
Cruelty to a dog or cat:
Class A Misdemeanor
Fine up to $1000
Intentionally tortures any dog or cat:
Class C Felony
Fine up to $5000
Imprisonment up to 10 years
Forfeiture of Animal/Seizure: Both
Other Sentencing Provisions: Cost of Care.
Exemptions: Research, protection of life or property, training; shoots dog
or cat with BB gun for defecating/urinating on property.
brerrabbit
Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Messages
- 401
I am one of the transgressors about killing dogs. To my credit, I only shoot with a clear shot when I know what I am shooting at. I have yet had to hunt down a wounded dog from a bad shoot.
I keep and raise livestock. I have state law on my side if I shoot one of your dogs if it even looks crosseyed at one of my animals. Your dog will simply disappear if it becomes a problem for me.
I will eat breakfast, read the paper, and go to sleep peacefully after I kill your dog if it is causing me problems.
The onus is not on me to make sure your dog is kept under control.
But a shiitzu(sp)? Come on people get real. Most of my critters would stomp the furry little ankle biter into the dust themselves.
The lady in the OP has issues other than dogs. This was not a dog issue, this was a neighbor issue.
I keep and raise livestock. I have state law on my side if I shoot one of your dogs if it even looks crosseyed at one of my animals. Your dog will simply disappear if it becomes a problem for me.
I will eat breakfast, read the paper, and go to sleep peacefully after I kill your dog if it is causing me problems.
The onus is not on me to make sure your dog is kept under control.
But a shiitzu(sp)? Come on people get real. Most of my critters would stomp the furry little ankle biter into the dust themselves.
The lady in the OP has issues other than dogs. This was not a dog issue, this was a neighbor issue.
revjen45
Member
If you're repelling a nuisance, as opposed to defending self &/or livestock a Wrist Rocket works dandy.
CDignition
Member
I like dogs, but the animal rights wackos are really a bane to our society.
The sentences handed down to animal abusers are frequently much harsher than penalties to child molesters and human rights crimes. It is stunning to see some dirtbag get off with a slap on the knuckles for heinous acts, but some guy does something wrong to a dog and they're ready to hang him..
Dogs and animals DESERVE to be treated fairly and with care/kindness...but they have NO rights.
If I see a dog in my yard, I ignore it..if a mean dog is running after me or my kid, im gonna drill it. Plus, my yard isnt your dogs toilet,lol.
Sorry to see the case above go wrong..lets see how the jury system works on this one.
The sentences handed down to animal abusers are frequently much harsher than penalties to child molesters and human rights crimes. It is stunning to see some dirtbag get off with a slap on the knuckles for heinous acts, but some guy does something wrong to a dog and they're ready to hang him..
Dogs and animals DESERVE to be treated fairly and with care/kindness...but they have NO rights.
If I see a dog in my yard, I ignore it..if a mean dog is running after me or my kid, im gonna drill it. Plus, my yard isnt your dogs toilet,lol.
Sorry to see the case above go wrong..lets see how the jury system works on this one.
Clipper
Member
Sorry Jimmy, but I don't...You provided your own petard to be hoist on:
This is your own previous post, right?
And this is the actual text of the statute, right?
Reading comprension is good...
This is your own previous post, right?
And this is the actual text of the statute, right?
Reading comprension is good...
jimmyraythomason
Member
Clipper,yes you do. Not for the content but for the delivery of your challenge. Bold,capitol letters with angry emoticons do not a civil request make.
Clipper
Member
I didn't know I was supposed to consult my Emily Post before calling out such obvious B.S. for what it is...If you don't like the taste of shoe leather, don't put your foot in your mouth...
MCgunner
Member
There was a bird watcher out on the west end of Galveston Island, recently, watching the sparrows and cliff swallows under the toll bridge, probably. NObody lives out there, just campers wade fishing San Luis pass. The bird watcher saw the cat after a bird, got his .22 and shot the cat. Guess the toll booth workers saw it or something. He got hauled to jail and charged with animal cruelty. Now, I have absolutely no problem with people shooting feral cats! Does that make me a knuckle dragger? The cat was killing wildlife. I don't know if they'd charged the guy, but the toll booth operators had been feeding the cat and claimed it as their pet. Well, to me, it was just a feral cat doing what feral cats do. So, the guy's in jail for shooting a pest. To me, this is absolutely STUPID, RIDICULOUS, MORONIC! I wouldn't have shot the cat, care less if he wants to eat. And, cats eat what they kill, don't just kill to be killin' like dogs will do. But, hell, it was a pest, a friggin' feral cat! Had it been a coyote, no problem! What the hell is the difference in a coyote and a feral cat? They both kill to eat! Yet, people kill coyotes on sight and cats are sanctified or something.
Yeah, you shoot or kill or harm or turn your dogs loose on my cats, well, you got what's comin' to you, but they are my property and they have their shots and they're no threat to the world and they're beneficial to me. A cat in the wild? Well, even if the toll booth operators were feeding it, is it really a pet? Did they get it shots and get it neutered? Do they have an investment in the cat? Probably not.
I'm wondering how that one's going to turn out. I think it's stupid to waste jail space on such a case, though. You're locking up a bird watcher for shooting a cat and there are illegal aliens that get a free pass. I guess the fact that they are illegal isn't grounds for arrest and deportment?
You know, when I was a kid, I brought home a yellow lab cross a guy had given me. We lived out in the country and he stayed in the yard, but he got to running down the road and killing the neighbor's chickens. The neighbor called the old man, the old man took the dog out back and shot him right then and there. Hey, can't have a chicken killer hangin' around. Now days, he'd gotten 30 days in the electric chair, I guess.
This country has totally lost its priorities.
What the hell is the difference in a coyote and a feral cat? They both kill to eat! Yet, people kill coyotes on sight and cats are sanctified or something. Yeah, you shoot or kill or harm or turn your dogs loose on my cats, well, you got what's comin' to you, but they are my property and they have their shots and they're no threat to the world and they're beneficial to me. A cat in the wild? Well, even if the toll booth operators were feeding it, is it really a pet? Did they get it shots and get it neutered? Do they have an investment in the cat? Probably not.
I'm wondering how that one's going to turn out. I think it's stupid to waste jail space on such a case, though. You're locking up a bird watcher for shooting a cat and there are illegal aliens that get a free pass. I guess the fact that they are illegal isn't grounds for arrest and deportment?
You know, when I was a kid, I brought home a yellow lab cross a guy had given me. We lived out in the country and he stayed in the yard, but he got to running down the road and killing the neighbor's chickens. The neighbor called the old man, the old man took the dog out back and shot him right then and there. Hey, can't have a chicken killer hangin' around. Now days, he'd gotten 30 days in the electric chair, I guess.
This country has totally lost its priorities.
legal implications
I usually try to avoid the threads about shooting dogs and cats - still, if you want to argue the law, here is some assistance - charts and graphs showing the current state of the law in all 50 states.
http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/state_cruelty_chart.pdf
http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/felonycruelty_map.pdf
Currently, 43 states have felony level statutes in place. Nothing BS or straw man about that. Of course, there are situations which make killing an animal non-criminal: active threat; harassing livestock, threatening domestic or, in many states, game animals.
Since this is a firearms board - remember the simple formula: felony conviction = ban on possessing firearms.
El Tejon's original post shows a sad and predictable outcome - search the countless dog shooting posts here and see the countless warnings about safety, wrongful injury/death liability, etc.
I usually try to avoid the threads about shooting dogs and cats - still, if you want to argue the law, here is some assistance - charts and graphs showing the current state of the law in all 50 states.
http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/state_cruelty_chart.pdf
http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/felonycruelty_map.pdf
Currently, 43 states have felony level statutes in place. Nothing BS or straw man about that. Of course, there are situations which make killing an animal non-criminal: active threat; harassing livestock, threatening domestic or, in many states, game animals.
Since this is a firearms board - remember the simple formula: felony conviction = ban on possessing firearms.
El Tejon's original post shows a sad and predictable outcome - search the countless dog shooting posts here and see the countless warnings about safety, wrongful injury/death liability, etc.
El Tejon's point: don't shoot your gun or your mouth off
without thinking carefully of the consequences.
Point well taken. Thanks for the reminder.
without thinking carefully of the consequences.
Point well taken. Thanks for the reminder.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Shooting isn't always the answer. Sometimes a baseball bat or a swift kick are all that's needed. A small dog can probably be handled quite decisively with something less than firearms.
If there is an unwanted shih-tzu coming near me, a non-violent shove from my foot will be the first thing I do. After that, a good kick.
Listen, I've really got no feelings about dogs in any direction. I know some people get really worked up about them, and think that the rest of us should bend over backwards to accommodate their dogs. Well I won't. If someone's animal comes in my yard, it's owner better be right behind it trying to restrain it with physical force. Coaxing it with some "come here" nonsense isn't gonna cut it. Now that's no excuse to fire a weapon at it unless it's actually being threatening.
In the story cited by the OP, both wrong attitude were present. The shooter, acted in a criminal manner and should be dealt with accordingly. At the same time, it's obvious that the dog owner has had past trouble restraining her property. The dog owner should have received a fine/ticket for the "digging up a cat" incident, and maybe had their animal taken from their custody.
There always seems to be 2 far side to this debate. One side has a "I'll gun down any dog that comes on my property" attitude. And the other side has a "Just let the dog do what it wants, isn't it so cute, dogs can do no wrong" attitude. Both are wrong. reality is somewhere in between. There better be some lives at stake for you to pull a gun on anyone or anything. But at the same time, keep your property off of my property. It's not hard, and I don't care how cute you think your dog is. I don't want to deal with it. Ever.
If there is an unwanted shih-tzu coming near me, a non-violent shove from my foot will be the first thing I do. After that, a good kick.
Listen, I've really got no feelings about dogs in any direction. I know some people get really worked up about them, and think that the rest of us should bend over backwards to accommodate their dogs. Well I won't. If someone's animal comes in my yard, it's owner better be right behind it trying to restrain it with physical force. Coaxing it with some "come here" nonsense isn't gonna cut it. Now that's no excuse to fire a weapon at it unless it's actually being threatening.
In the story cited by the OP, both wrong attitude were present. The shooter, acted in a criminal manner and should be dealt with accordingly. At the same time, it's obvious that the dog owner has had past trouble restraining her property. The dog owner should have received a fine/ticket for the "digging up a cat" incident, and maybe had their animal taken from their custody.
There always seems to be 2 far side to this debate. One side has a "I'll gun down any dog that comes on my property" attitude. And the other side has a "Just let the dog do what it wants, isn't it so cute, dogs can do no wrong" attitude. Both are wrong. reality is somewhere in between. There better be some lives at stake for you to pull a gun on anyone or anything. But at the same time, keep your property off of my property. It's not hard, and I don't care how cute you think your dog is. I don't want to deal with it. Ever.
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