Stopping Power of .45 Compared to 9mm

Status
Not open for further replies.
Take all the "9mm is wimpy" talk with a grain of salt, because I'm sure none of the posters would like to stare down the barrel of a loaded 9mm. I have a 9 mm, .40 S&W, .45 Auto, and a 10 mm and have the same amount of faith in all of them. Why? If I have to defend my life, I'm not just shooting once. And with modern powders and bullets they all perform about the same on a human target (the 10 mm has an edge, but in the end, the .40 S&W will generally yield the same result on a human).

A lot of people quote all the army crap about the 9 mm being horrible. Remember that they must use a FMJ.

I prefer carrying the 9mm because it is my smallest pistol (G26), but the G36 in .45 auto is giving it a good run for it's money. I shoot all 3 calibers accurately, but if I have to fire in less than ideal conditions (one handed and off handed) the edge clearly goes to the 9mm or 40 S&W (the .40 simply because the gun I have is heavy). The .45 auto in a small and light gun is just too much for me to take in my off hand.

As you can see, when I consider service pistol calibers, there are more important things than "stopping power".
 
The 9mm is great for small pocket-pistols, and for smaller weaker shooters....but certainly not for the average guy with a full-sized service pistol.
 
The 9mm is great for small pocket-pistols, and for smaller weaker shooters....but certainly not for the average guy with a full-sized service pistol.
Click to expand...

Your opinions are simply not grounded in reality. I certainly wouldn't call the British SAS or the US Navy SEALs "weaker shooters." The reason they are some of the best warriors on the planet is not because of the caliber of their weapons, but because of their training and mindset. They keep firing until the threat is over.

With proper defensive ammo, the 9mm is just as good as any other service caliber, which really isn't saying much at all. All are weak and inadequate compared to a rifle or shotgun round.

In fact, you should EXPECT your handgun round to fail to stop and continue to fire until the threat is neutralized. Competent handgun training does not rely on what is stamped on your slide to stop the threat. There have been soldiers in combat who have continued to charge the enemy even after receiving lethal wounds and with limbs blown off! STOP worrying about the power of your puny handgun!

Choosing a caliber and gun platform that you can control effectively and selecting the best self-defense ammo that your gun will feed reliably is a much better idea. Firing accurately and fast into the vitals from any angle and doing a lot of "failure to stop" drills would be much more useful.

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (Q4355)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
Click to expand...

So in terms of terminal effectiveness, how is the 9mm less effective than the other semi-auto service calibers?
 
Last edited:
Oddly enough, America is the only place this is such a perennial debate. I think a lot of the 45's almost mythical status is down to American bravado. The 9mm has been used by European military and police forces for 100 years. If it were as inadequate as some suggest, it would have been replaced decades ago.

Oh well. I'll happily alternate between my Glock 17 and SIG P220. Vive la différence!
 
Hey Zeke, that there horse looks a might dead, doncha think?

Might be, Zeb. But might not. Let's just beat on it a bit to see.

::thump!::

:thump thump thump!::

Well Zeke, it ain't a-movin' in the slightest. I reckon for sure it be dead.

Well Zeb, you just might be right, and then again - you might not. Let's whomp on it a bit more to see if'n we cain't get at least a little bit o' life out of it.

::thump!::

:thump thump thump!::

Nope, dang it Zeke. It still ain't budgin' even the least little bit. Give it up, dang it.

Huh-uh Zeb, just as long as there's the least little bit o' possibility I might get this thing to stir, I'm gonna keep a-whompin on it.

::thump!::

:thump thump thump!::

Ad infinitum; ad nauseum.

:cool:
 
i guess with fmj id have to say a 1:3 ratio based solely on marine training 9mm 3 shots to center mass 45 only 1 shot to center mass
 
If I was to shoot someone in the eye with either a .45 or 9mm I'd be willing to bet they would hit the ground about the same time. Not that I'm going to shoot anybody in the eye, I believe its more about shot placement more then how big a bullet is. There have been documented cases where a 9mm failed to stop a threat with multiple hits. Sames true for the .45 and every other caliber thats been used. There also have been a lot of one shot DRT even with the little .22 long rifle. Use what you have, practice with it, use good reliable ammo. Get some training and shoot in some informal matches, which builds confidence shooting under pressure.
 
I have a 9mm and a 45 .I wouldn't want to be shot be either.
I also have a 32 auto and at 5 yards It is probably just as deadly as my other 2 guns with a proper shot placement.I carry the 45 glock and the 32 guardian more than my 9mm sig only because they are easier and lighter to carry not because one or the other would be better in a gun fight.Considering most predicaments end when a gun is pulled and not fired.
jmo
 
People have taken multiple hits from 9mm, .40's, .45's, and .308's and still kept going and lived to tell the tale, likewise people have died from being shot once with a .22lr. Carry what you like, practice with what you carry. Handguns generally suck at killing people, and the difference between 9mm to a .45 effectiveness is almost non-existent. Gun designers have yet to invent the death-ray, so in the mean time we have to make due with poking very small holes in each other in the range of 9-11mm's.
 
MTS840 pretty much covered it.
Handguns are all underpowered. Expect them to not work. Expect to empty the mag, reload, and resume.
IMO, there is no "fatality ratio".

For my purposes, the 9mm, .40, .45 ACP, .357, .38 are all pretty much equivalent, meaning that they are all far less effective than a claymore mine (which would be my ideal level of "stopping power"). None are powerful enough.
All somehow manage to save lives in spite of that.
I'd shoot as many different guns as I could, decide what you like, and buy one.
But don't let the fantasy of stopping power influence your decision.


BTW - I used to know a vietnam vet who took 4 hits to the chest/abdomen with an AK and survived. He was a driver for Fedex last I knew.
How's that for adding some fuel to the stopping power debate?
 
BTW - I used to know a vietnam vet who took 4 hits to the chest/abdomen with an AK and survived. He was a driver for Fedex last I knew.
How's that for adding some fuel to the stopping power debate?
Click to expand...
The question isn't about survival power, it's about stopping power.

Did those 4 hits stop him doing whatever he was doing? If so, that's stopping power. If not, that's one tough dude.

Now, back to the general theme of the thread.



Move dammit, Seabiscuit! Move I say! Get up!

::thump thump thump thump thump::

:cool:
 
meef said:
Did those 4 hits stop him doing whatever he was doing? If so, that's stopping power.
Click to expand...

I don't know.
I was tactful enough to not ask. I also figured that if he'd survived 4 hits from an AK, there wasn't anything I could do to stop him if he got angry at me.
;)

Seriously though, that would be "stopping power".
But not like everyone tries to think of it.
The general argument I'm trying to make (along with many others) is that stopping power doesn't come from anything other than holes that are put in the right place (like the CNS, heart, or major arteries).
There is no inherent "stopping power" because the name of your cartridge starts with a "4".

For cryin' out loud, one of my cousins shot a garden raiding rabbit (up close) with a .45 ACP and the freakin' thing didn't go sailing off into the weeds. Instead, it jumped to it's feet and tried to run off. It still needed finished off with a .22 LR (he ran out of ammo with the 1911) and probably would have escaped if he hadn't been lucky enough to have his .22 revolver handy.
And rabbits, BTW, are pretty fragile animals.

Anyhow, I'm only adding to a rediculous debate here that we've all participated in way too many times.
Have fun with this one gents - I'm out.
 
For cryin' out loud, one of my cousins shot a garden raiding rabbit (up close) with a .45 ACP and the freakin' thing didn't go sailing off into the weeds. Instead, it jumped to it's feet and tried to run off. It still needed finished off with a .22 LR (he ran out of ammo with the 1911) and probably would have escaped if he hadn't been lucky enough to have his .22 revolver handy.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that the .22 is more effective for self-defense than the .45?:rolleyes:

There's just no question about it, the .45 is more powerful, and effective, than either the 9mm or the .22.
 
If you were in a firefight, what would you want your opponent armed with....
a 9mm?
a .40?
a .45ACP?

I would prefer than my opponent be armed with a 9mm.
 
^^^^Doesn't matter, with well placed shots within 10 yards, there is not a human being in the world that I can't kill with a magazine full of 9mm, 40, or 45 ACP.

It doesn't matter if it's a 9mm, 45ACP, or 7.62x39mm. If you don't hit the target right, you're not gonna stop/kill them. It's all about shot placement, so let's stop this nonsense.
 
depending on where you are in relation to your enemy with that 9mm. since It is said that 9mm can go threw more "stuff" then a .45 So maybe I wouldnt want my enemy with the 9 but with the .45. Also less shots is never a good thing. But what do I know I am one sided, hence the name ^
 
If you were in a firefight, what would you want your opponent armed with....
a 9mm?
a .40?
a .45ACP?

I would prefer than my opponent be armed with a 9mm.
Click to expand...

Now your just baiting me!
I would prefer my opponent to be armed with a BB gun and not know how to use it! Do you think getting shot with a 9mm is really going to hurt less? Do you really, REALLY believe that having your enemy armed with a 9mm while you have a .45 gives you an advantage?!?!? If so you need to rethink your tactics.
Honestly, I was into this debate pretty heavily a few years ago when the hard facts snapped me out of it. Even in "one shot stops" the difference between the two rounds is only a couple of percentage points....litterally 2%. And the much preached "hardball drops them all" is complete BS, the .45 FMJ has only a very slight advantage over the 9mmFMJ....both of which are in the mid 60% range.
If you buy into the one-shot-stop crap then you will be happy to know the the best HPs in both chambering rank within a couple of points of each other as well.
No handgun round is the kiss of death. You must plan of engaging your attacker quickly with accurate rapid fire.

To Halo who posted this debate is an American Bravado thing, you are absolutely correct. We have a strong .45 mentality in this country, and everything else is inferior because we said so! :neener:
One thing that I always hated was the double standard, which was outlined nicely by another poster years ago. I can't remember who or I would give them credit. It goes something like this;
1. BG takes two shots with 9mm to put him down. Comment: Coulda done it with one .45.
2. BG takes two shots with .45 to put down. Comment: Wow, think of how many 9mm you would have had to use to kill that guy!
3. BG takes four shots with 9mm to put down. Commet: 9mm's are crap! Shoulda used a .45.
4. BG takes four shots with .45 to put down. Comment: Wow, that guy was really tough!

I've had plenty of people crap talk my nines, but no one has ever volunteered to test it from the business end of my Hi-Power.

In Closing.
Yes, the .45 has more stopping power....very slightly more.
While people like to throw the 1:2 or 1:3 ratios out there I believe it is much closer to 1:1.2. Material I read at one point said the Army found that 50% of all handgun shots in combat missed. Of the hits the .45 required 2.5 hits to drop the enemy, while the 9mm required 2.8. The arguement here was the M9 with three mags for a total of 45rds was a better sidearm then the 1911 with three mags for a total of 21 rounds. I will admit I read this over a decade ago, and I am a little blurry on the numbers. I remember thinking at the time that the 50% seemed real bad, but these days I think it is probably optimistic considering police have something below a 20% hit rate. Last info I saw had hit rates with rifles at below 10% at 100 meters in actual combat.
The shooter is the most important part. The skillset, the training, the proper mentality, and the awareness. After that is making sure the weapon is reliable and well fitted to the shooter both for skill and physical.

This has been my caliber debate for the month; see you in April.
 
I read a lot of posts, and tonight I have come to a couple of concussions:

1. Those who think that you should read the old threads, and not bring up the concept one more time, should not engage the thread. I read a lot, and sometimes I get something new from the new discussion.

2. There is so much discussion about knock down, but little about incapacitation(I think they are different). We talk about hypothetical human shots, but rarely bring in the practical hunting shots. I have seen elk return to a call after having been shot through both lungs, appearing to not realize it was wounded. Then within seconds, on the ground dead.

Yes, I would love to get a central nervous system shot on a first shot, but you can't count on that. A small hole may only trigger a fight or flight reaction, which means you are not done, and still in danger. Even a large hole, relatively smoothly cut, may bleed slowly; thus giving you only a small advantage hence forth. Shot placement, being extremely important, has a large luck factor to it. Every hunter experiences a poor shot, because of nerves or other factors. How can a person in a defensive situation count on a better shot.

currently, my home defense load is .45 LC, so a little irrelevant. However, I have considered the Barnes X bullet for a defense load in the .45, even though it is designed for hunting. Not sure if this would even load in an auto. I say larger caliber, shredding bullet. I want the bullet to do as much damage as possible, no matter where it hits. When comparing 9mm and .45 auto, using similar ammo, I still say there is a considerable difference between an expanded 9 vs and expanded 45.

3. We talk about capacity, but what if you only get one shot?

All this said, I am currently saving up for a compact XD in .45
 
Do you think getting shot with a 9mm is really going to hurt less?
Click to expand...
No, but I think my chances of surviving would be greater if I was hit with a 9mm slug rather than a .45 slug.

Do you really, REALLY believe that having your enemy armed with a 9mm while you have a .45 gives you an advantage?!?!?
Click to expand...
Of course....my hits with a .45 are much more likely to actually stop my enemy rather than if I hit him with a 9mm.

No handgun round is the kiss of death. You must plan of engaging your attacker quickly with accurate rapid fire.
Click to expand...
I agree.
And I can do so just fine with a .45.
I'm not saying that everyone can....some folks need to stick to the weaker calibers (age, disabilities, weak hands and arms, etc....).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
9mm/40SW/10mm/.357 Sig/.45 Comparo
Replies
5
Views
1K
brashboy
B
M
  • Locked
In a 9mm Luger CCW, what is best for stopping power?
2
Replies
29
Views
2K
Ripped
R
L
  • Locked
My Personal Handgun Caliber Dogma
2 3 4 5
Replies
115
Views
5K
Autodidactic
Autodidactic
W
  • Locked
Curious about 9x18 stopping power.
2 3 4 5
Replies
100
Views
11K
wbond
W
P
  • Locked
7.62x39 Stopping Power
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
16K
Art Eatman
A
Back
Top