Stovepipe question.

[ulfrik]

When a "stovepipe jam" happens is it possible that as the slide goes only part of the way forward (because of the stovepipe jam) that the next round is only partially fed or chamberd thus leading to a second jam (even after you taped and racked) ?

If so, Is this common after a stovepipe jam? what would you do to clear the pistol if it stovepiped then jammed again after you taped and racked?

 

[10-96]

I wouldn't consider it common- but it does happen. When (if) it does- drop the magazine (or "rip it" as we call it), cycle the slide & clear the jam, and check the magazine to see if there is any obvious defect.

Depending on the type of jam and/or type of weapon- the magazine may not simply drop free. You may have to pull it out with some oomph (thus the rip part).

 

[wristtwister]

There are lots of issues that can cause stovepipes... and you have to have your gun looked at by a gunsmith if you want that fixed (most of the time). Sometimes it's the extractor, sometimes the feed ramp, sometimes the magazine operation, and sometimes just the kind of ammo you're feeding... so there are lots of things that can cause them... even poor cleaning (dirty guns are a prime reason). I can't tell you how many guns come through our gunsmith that have "old oil" that's dried up and sticking the functional parts of guns together and causing them to jam or stovepipe.

I always clean a gun before I take it out to shoot and use a quality cleaner to make sure the gun is clean BEFORE I shoot it. Then, I use different types of ammo, and if one of them misfeeds, I use the other stuff... if I still have stovepipes, I start leaning toward mechanical problems... magazine operation first, and then start looking for "mechanical problems" in the gun itself.

I've got a lot of old guns that I hear people rail about being "stovepipe" problems, that run like Swiss watches as long as I take care of them... so get past the rhetoric, and look at the "shooting situation" , and you'll enjoy shooting all your guns... not just the ones that "everybody" likes...

WT

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Yes, a stovepipe stoppage can create the condition you describe (doublefeed). Whenever my gun fails to fire when I press the trigger I perform a progressive series of steps to quickly clear the problem:

1. Misfire*
2. Seat, roll & push/pull (aka tap, roll & rack)
3. Misfire*
4. Move away from danger, if necessary
5. Perform Combat Reload
6. If fresh magazine cannot be inserted:
7. Stow fresh magazine between ring & pinky fingers of firing hand
8. Slide lock, magazine drop**
9. Rack, rack, rack
10. Finish the Combat Reload

*Misfire = anytime I press the trigger and the pistol does not fire
**"magazine drop" = I may have to forcibly remove the magazine by hand

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

A "stovepipe" or "smokestack" is really a specific type of stoppage. It happens when a fired case fails to fully eject and is caught base down/mouth up in the ejection port, pinched between the returning slide and the barrel. The mouth sticking up resembles a stovepipe, hence the name. Failures to eject are different from failures to fire the cartridge, or extract the fired case (aka a "double feed"). Anyway, to clear such a stoppage, it is best to tap the bottom of the magazine to be sure it is seated, then quickly rack the slide to chamber a new round. You may also need to quickly flip (turn on its side) the gun to be sure the case falls clear.

 

[ulfrik]

Thanks.


So stovepipe jams don't alway lead to double feeds?
Is the basic tap and rack a good way to clear a stovepipe jam?or should you remove the magazine?

what's the best way to clear a stovepipe jam?

 

[Shawn Dodson]

So stovepipe jams don't alway lead to double feeds?

Not always, but it can happen. As you noted in your original post the slide will have started stripping the next cartridge from the magazine to feed into the chamber. Depending on how far this cartridge is fed into the chamber when you tap/rack then the slide may attempt to strip the next cartridge (the one immediately below it) from the magazine and chamber it. This is when the doublefeed occurs.

Is the basic tap and rack a good way to clear a stovepipe jam?

I suggest you avoid diagnosing any stoppage you encounter to determine what particular procedure is needed to clear any particular "jam". This not only slows you down but you may misdiagnose the problem and use the incorrect procedure.

Whenever your gun doesn't shoot when you press the trigger you should immediately tap, roll & rack. Just do it. Don't stop and inspect the gun to determine what the problem is.

My tap/rack process is a little different. I strike the magazine with the heel of my support hand (Seat), then grasp the slide with my support hand. I then "roll" the pistol to the right to point the ejection port to the ground and simultaneously push forward with my firing hand and pull backward with my support hand. Rolling the pistol allows centrifugal force and gravity to help clear the action. I push/pull energetically as if I'm trying to rip the slide from the frame. My "tap/rack" process is best described as "Seat, Roll & Push/Pull".

After I perform "Seat, Roll & Push/Pull", I then recover and fire again, if necessary. If the gun fails to immediately fire again, then I'm going to either move away from danger, if necessary, or use a different force option. When time and situation permit I'm going to attempt to perform a Combat Reload. If I can't insert the magazine into the pistol then the "empty" magazine is stuck (probably a doublefeed) and I have to lock the slide open, remove it, roll & rack the slide a few times to clear the action, finish my Combat Reload (Seat, Roll & Push/Pull), and drive on.

This non-diagnostic technique can be performed without need to look at the pistol. It can be performed while on the move and in complete darkness. It's quicker than a diagnostic technique because it short circuits your decision-making process (Observe-Orient-Decide-Act (OODA) Loop).

With a diagnostic procedure you first "observe" the problem (the gun didn't fire). Then you "orient" yourself to the situation by examining the gun to determine the cause of the misfire. Then you "decide" what procedure to use to clear the problem. Then you "act" to clear the problem.

With the non-diagnostic procedure you first "observe" the problem (the gun didn't fire) and then immediately "act" to clear it without need to "orient" and "decide".

Tap/rack clears many problems

When tap/rack fails then you immediately attempt to perform a Combat Reload because you're more likely to have emptied your magazine than to have encountered a doublefeed. A Combat Reload will get your gun running quicker if all you have is an empty magazine. If, when you're attempting to perform the Combat Reload, you can't insert the magazine into the magazine well, then the "empty" magazine didn't jettison from the gun when you worked the magazine release. When this happens you immediately act to clear a doublefeed. These progressive "observe/act" steps require little decision-making. They're performed intuitively. They minimize your mental load so your mind is free to "Observe-Orient-Decide-Act" to keep you from being shot/stabbed/beaten.

If you "observe" that your gun didn't fire when you pressed the trigger, then you "act" to immediately perform tap/rack.

If you "observe" that tap/rack failed to get the gun running, then you immediately "act" to perform a Combat Reload.

If you "observe" that you can't insert the magazine, then you "act" to clear a doublefeed.

In a defensive situation you want to keep your attention focused on the "external" danger. Your gun stoppage is an "internal" problem. Using a progressive series of non-diagnostic steps allows you to maintain "external" focus. Whereas a diagnostic procedure draws your attention into the gun, at the expense of your ability to quickly sense and react to an ever-changing dangerous situation.

 

[labhound]

Here's a good video to watch on clearing the gun.
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-clear-pistol-malfunction-245593/