Strange Question on Conceal Carry in Delaware

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Who is us? Non DE residents?
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Setting aside the fact that there are undoubtedly DE folks who DO find such intrusions unacceptable, I was actually referring to those of "US" from other places not strapped by such onerous requirements. Several people had posted saying, "Why not just get your DE permit and stop worrying?" When they had the DE requirements explained to them, at least one (wishin) said (not in so many words) "Screw THAT!"

As a PA resident (formerly of DE, FWIW) my permit cost ~$31, required almost NOTHING of me besides filling out the application and supplying a few references' names (who didn't have to be from the state), and alowing the sheriff to conduct a very basic background check. Since then, I've gone to the further "hassle" of taking a class and getting fingerprinted so that I can get my Utah non-resident permit as well. That permit gives me the ability to carry in DE -- with exactly the same rights and priviledges afforded to any DE resident who spent their money, sat through their interview, went before the judge, and publicized their personal information for that ability.

I would NEVER argue that it isn't worth it to do all those things in order to have the legal right to defend yourself! You are completely correct that those "PITAs" are more than trumped by the "reward" of having your gun if you need it.

But, if we can help DE residents find a way to accomplish the same goals -- LEGALLY -- without the intrusion and hassle, that's a wonderful thing!

-Sam
 
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Let me address this. This statement is ludicrous. Have you ever seen the DE News Journal? There about 10 pages in the back of "announcements" and I don't think that criminals are scanning the public land bids to scout out potential gun owners. Maybe, maybe %1 even glance through all of the name changes, divorces, etc. It is in no way like hanging a sign on your house that says there are guns here. I agree with you that getting your permit here is a hassle but that statement is absurd
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With the greatest respect, I completely disagree with you. You are posting in a public place an announcement that you own some valuable things (guns), along with an address where they may be found any time you are not at home. Whether you consider this to be a huge risk or not, it is EXACTLY as I've described it. Any criminal who chooses to read through that section -- knowing that these announcements MUST be there from time to time -- has significantly more than half his work done for him (locating which houses to hit) if he's inclined to burglary.

It's not like burglaries don't happen. You can't argue that guns are stolen from homes often enough. And that they are a specific target because of their more significant black market value.

If you don't consider that risk important, that's your decision to make, but many people DO -- many security specialists DO -- so that's why I mention it here.

NOW, on to the other point: Read over the various threads here on newspapers and other media publishing lists of CCW permit holders in various areas. You'll see that a very great many folks who carry find this highly offensive and dangerous. If you value your privacy about your guns and your views on self-defense, publishing that info in any public source is anathema. Again, you don't seem to count this as important. But many, many do. So you can't really claim it to be ludicrous.

-Sam
 
DE Dan, You are making alot of definitive statements but, so far, no back up to any of them. Your claim that DE law is clear on the matter of out-of-state permits should be easy to provide citations for, given the supposed clarity of the law.

Your claim that no one looks at the announcements section of the paper is not verifiable either way. One must assume that once my private information is published, it can and will be accessed by people with bad intentions. Same reason you don't use your real name to post here - privacy.
 
I don't think that criminals are scanning the public land bids to scout out potential gun owners.
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Did you know that there are documented cases of exactly that kind of thing? Scam artists who contact families who have published obituary notices claiming that the deceased owed them money, for example. Knowing where to act, or on whom, for the greatest reward and chance of success, is the criminal's primary skill.

Maybe, maybe %1 even glance through all of the name changes, divorces, etc.
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If no one reads this information, it wouldn't be published -- taking up valuable ad space, etc. Self-defeating argument.

And, sometimes, the information that "most folks" skip right over is very carefully studied by folks who can get something from it.

-Sam
 
But, if we can help DE residents find a legal way to accomplish the same goals -- LEGALLY -- without the intrusion and hassle, that's a wonderful thing!
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I wish we could, man, I really do. It's weird, we have one of the easiest states to purchase guns (long/hand) but our carry permit process is so drawn out and expensive to boot. Hell I can walk into my local shop right now and buy every gun he has (500+) and walk out with them the same day, with ammo. Quick check takes about 20 mins. depending if the fed is backed up or not. No pistol permit, no "cooling off" period, just walk in show 2 forms of ID fill out 2 peices of paper, and wait to be cleared (about 20 mins.) and walk out with your new guns. But whoa, whoa, whoa, you need you jump through these hoops to carry one, ah, and the one thats on fire, and maybe we'll give you a permit. It's backwards as hell but it is what it is. Gotta have a DE permit to carry.
 
DE Dan, You are making alot of definitive statements but, so far, no back up to any of them. Your claim that DE law is clear on the matter of out-of-state permits should be easy to provide citations for, given the supposed clarity of the law.
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I don't have to provide anything for anybody, like I said you can take my word or don't it's your call. I know the law, do you? Do your own research and you will come up with the law. As far as that goes, Delawares website is a travasty, finding anything on there takes forever, thats why I have not gone back through the hundreds of pages to "prove" anything to you guys.

I completely disagree with you.
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Thats what dicussions are for, if we all agreed all the time life would be no fun.


If no one reads this information, it wouldn't be published -- taking up valuable ad space, etc. Self-defeating argument.
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It has to be published legally, people reading it holds no bearing on its being published.


Look guys we are way off topic here I have already guided the OP in the right direction via PM and at this point we are just bickering, and picking apart each others posts. I am in no way agreeing that the DE Permit to Carry process is in any way fair or unobtrusive, I am just saying that that is the only route to take if you are a DE resident who wants to CC. Fair enough?
 
I invite you to try
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Well, at the risk of copping out, I'm starting to suspect that it might, maybe, not really be there at all. And you can search for a LONG time looking for something that isn't there. Hard to prove a negative. Undoubtedly lots of people believe that it is, and lots of texts and guides may suggest/assume that it is -- cause it's just common sense, right? -- but if the state's AG's office can't find it ... ? And they won't be prosecuting based off of a web site, either.

I could certainly be wrong. I'll own up to it, too. But I want to see the statute that spells it out.
 
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Well, at the risk of copping out,
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Don't sweat it, I copped out from the get go. I just don't feel like doing the legwork again for the proof. Like I said before take my word or don't, I'm just trying to save the guy the hassle.
 
Found it

The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware.


My original post:
I went through the same thing you are going through a couple of years ago. A FL Carry permit is only valid in DE if you are a FL resident who is "visiting" or "passing through".
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pursuant to 11 Del.C. ' 1441(j), as of July 11, 2003, Delaware law allows residents of other states who have been issued a concealed deadly weapon license or permit by certain other states to lawfully carry concealed deadly weapons in Delaware if the state that issued the permit or license also recognizes Delaware's concealed deadly weapons licenses, and if Delaware's Attorney General also determines that the concealed deadly weapons licensing or permit laws in the issuing state "afford a reasonably similar degree of protection as is provided by licensure in Delaware." The Attorney General has determined that only states that require proof of training in firearms safety as a part of their licensing or permit process can meet this requirement.
The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware. Similarly, Delawareans will be able to possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through those states. However, as of today Delaware does not recognize the concealed deadly weapon licenses or permits issued by states other than those listed below, and these states do not recognize Delaware's concealed deadly weapons licenses as valid.

ALASKA

ARIZONA

ARKANSAS

COLORADO

FLORIDA

KENTUCKY

MAINE

MICHIGAN

MISSOURI

NORTH CAROLINA

NORTH DAKOTA

OHIO

OKLAHOMA

TENNESSEE

TEXAS

UTAH

VIRGINIA

WEST VIRGINIA



Law enforcement officials from other jurisdictions can verify Delaware CCDW permits by contacting the Delaware State Police Headquarters on a 24/7 basis via NLET.AM directed to DEDSP0000 or by calling 302-739-5901

Persons who have a concealed deadly weapons license or permit issued by one of the states listed above will be able to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware. However, such persons will be subject to and are responsible for knowing and obeying all of Delaware's laws and regulations that apply to the carrying and possession of concealed or openly-carried deadly weapons. Click here for information on licensing to carry a concealed deadly weapon in Delaware.

Because of differences in the laws of the various states, it is possible that a person who is lawfully permitted to possess a deadly weapon in another state may be prohibited from doing so pursuant to Delaware law. The following persons are prohibited from possessing deadly weapons or ammunition in Delaware:

any person previously convicted of any felony
any person previously convicted of any misdemeanor involving physical injury to another or domestic violence, unless more than 5 years has elapsed from the date of the conviction
any person previously convicted of any crime involving the unlawful use, possession or sale of any illegal drug
any person who has not yet reached his or her 25th birthday who has been previously convicted as a juvenile of a crime which, if committed by an adult, would constitute a felony
any person who is subject to a Protection From Abuse Order issued by a competent court
any person who has previously been committed to a hospital or mental institution for treatment for a mental disorder

Possession of a deadly weapon by a person prohibited from doing so is a felony. Click here to view Delaware's Possession of a Deadly Weapon by a Prohibited Person statute.


Delaware law also prohibits the possession of silencers, sawed-off shotguns and machine guns under all circumstances.

Delawareans who have a Delaware concealed deadly weapons permit will be able to possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through the states listed above, and also in Idaho, Indiana and Vermont. However, Delawareans who possess a concealed deadly weapon in another state will be subject to and are responsible for knowing and obeying all of the laws and regulations in the other state that apply to the carrying and possession of concealed or openly-carried deadly weapons. Because of differences in the laws of the various states, it is possible that a person who is lawfully permitted to possess a deadly weapon pursuant to Delaware law may be prohibited from doing so in another state. Most other states require any person who is carrying a concealed deadly weapon pursuant to a license or permit to also be in possession of the license or permit.

The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which will, when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware. Similarly, Delawareans will be able to possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through those states. However, as of today Delaware does not recognize the concealed deadly weapon licenses or permits issued by states other than those listed above, and these states do not recognize Delaware's concealed deadly weapons licenses as valid.

As agreements are completed with other states this web page will be updated accordingly.

http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/crime/concealedweapons.shtml

OK?
 
Persons who have a concealed deadly weapons license or permit issued by one of the states listed above will be able to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware.
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O.k. So if he is a person who has a concealed deadly weapons license or permit issued by one of those states, he's ok.

That's what I thought we said from the beginning?

I've read it twice, no, four times. That's all I see that's pertinent. It doesn't say "Persons, who are residents of another state and who have..." it just says, "Persons who have ..."

Where does it say that Delawarians holding a permit from another state (only) may NOT carry in DE on that permit? It doesn't, in these paragraphs. Maybe it's in a different section.

-Sam
 
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The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware.
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I understand that it is a little vague, but it says visiting or traveling through, not residing.

Feel free to contact Beau Bidins office directly, they will tell you the same thing that they told me, which I have been telling you from the start.
 
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Visiting or traveling through, not residing.
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That's IT? That's the single point of the law that makes it illegal for a DE resident to carry on an out-of-state non-res. permit?

I can see how it could be interpreted that way...I guess...maybe.

Wow. A thin strand, indeed.

I'd ask the OP to take that to his friend at the A.G.'s office and get a decision on whether such a thing is prosecutable.

I'm guessing no, still.

But, in the end, my rear isn't on the line over it.

-Sam
 
That's IT? That's the single point of the law that makes it illegal for a DE resident to carry on an out-of-state non-res. permit?
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Last I checked, a simple point of the law is all it takes.

I can see how it could be interpreted that way...I guess...maybe.
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You are not the one who would be interpreting the law. This is the home state of Joe Biden, (sorry guys, don't take it out on Delaware) and a conviction would be made.


If you would like, we can agree to disagree, but I have lived here a long time, and I know my state laws.
 
I'd ask the OP to take that to his friend at the A.G.'s office and get a decision on whether such a thing is prosecutable
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Since we can reasonably assume that his lawyer best buddy in the AG's office is not hanging him out to dry by shooting from the hip, that should have already happened. He surely would have read the statute when the question was raised. I guess it wouldn't hurt to confirm it though.
 
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The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware.


Pursuant to 11 Del.C. ' 1441(j), as of July 11, 2003 It's DE law not just something Beau Biden said.

I'm going to go by a Biden's declaration? Get real.
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He's the Attorney General and I would go by his declaration, especially since it's the law.

The link to the actual law is one of my posts.
 
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If we can't agree to disagree than we are just bickering back and forth. That's not why we are here. I happen to know the DE state laws, and if you don't want to trust "some guy" on the internet I don't blame you. The law is vague, yes, but as a DE resident you still can't carry in DE without a DE permit. Let's put this to bed already.
 
As someone who recently acquired a Delaware CCW permit. I didn’t feel that it was that big of an inconvenience. From the time I took the CCW Class, filled out the required paperwork which included five character references, applied for the criminal background check, and posted the notice in a local paper, it took about a month and a half to receive my permit.
There was never any interview, or appearing before a judge required in the process. I just dropped the paperwork off at the local County Courthouse, and the permit was mailed to me.
 
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