Delaware_Dan
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- Dec 9, 2008
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Thanks Johnny
Strange Question on Conceal Carry in Delaware
- Thread starter nachosgrande
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Naah, I just live in PA and don't have to care what the DE A.G. may or may not decide their law says about their residents.
But, I sure am curious.
-Sam
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
[QUOTE-DelawareKen]There was never any interview, or appearing before a judge required in the process. I just dropped the paperwork off at the local County Courthouse, and the permit was mailed to me.[/QUOTE]
That's cool! If you want to you could write to the folks who run Handgunlaw.us and tell tehm. They may adjust their DE page to explain that some parts of the process may or may not be required, depending on your location.
(BTW: I sort of grew up in Seaford. Howdy (ex) neighbor!)
-Sam
That's cool! If you want to you could write to the folks who run Handgunlaw.us and tell tehm. They may adjust their DE page to explain that some parts of the process may or may not be required, depending on your location.
(BTW: I sort of grew up in Seaford. Howdy (ex) neighbor!)
-Sam
wow im really late to the thread
i live in delaware as well and when i took my Utah CCW class i was told that it wouldnt be recognized in delaware as my only permit and that i would have to aquire a delaware permit to CCDW in this state no matter the recipricity or recognition
so i would only assume the same for florida
the Delaware permit process can be a bit of a hastle but for most of us its more a finantial burden than anything else
oh and to the people saying that having my information in the paper will advertise where gun owners live...
most criminals wont go near a gun owners house more than... once
i live in delaware as well and when i took my Utah CCW class i was told that it wouldnt be recognized in delaware as my only permit and that i would have to aquire a delaware permit to CCDW in this state no matter the recipricity or recognition
so i would only assume the same for florida
the Delaware permit process can be a bit of a hastle but for most of us its more a finantial burden than anything else
oh and to the people saying that having my information in the paper will advertise where gun owners live...
most criminals wont go near a gun owners house more than... once
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I applaud that sentiment, but how then do you explain all the stolen guns? There's plenty of folks here on THR who have told of having their guns stolen when they were at work or otherwise away.
Sure it's risky, but if someone sees an advertisement in the paper saying "upstanding citizen who owns guns wants to carry them and lives at 1234 Street Road, Townville, DE," it sure isn't hard to figure out how to pay that address a visit when that upstanding citizen is off at his paying job.
Get a good safe and a security system, and make sure you have insurance to cover your guns. Good advice anyway, but especially if you're advertising.
-Sam
well sam the basic mentality in delaware (at least the folks i know who own guns) tend to learn to use them
plus i live in the woods with a nice clear area and dogs and those infared driveway detectors so if someones here i WILL know about it
ive never had an insident that i can recall that i didnt know someone was in my yard (even just a neighbor kid who lost a ball)
i dont mind the "invitation" with my newspaper add
most the criminals around here are terrified of a gun owner
by nature most of them are idiots or cowards not the "big city" criminal masterminds
i have no kids in the house and all of my firearms are within a few yards of myself and my girlfriend in the bedroom so come on in make a noise in the middle of the night... i just hope your plan is better than mine lol
plus i live in the woods with a nice clear area and dogs and those infared driveway detectors so if someones here i WILL know about it
ive never had an insident that i can recall that i didnt know someone was in my yard (even just a neighbor kid who lost a ball)
i dont mind the "invitation" with my newspaper add
most the criminals around here are terrified of a gun owner
by nature most of them are idiots or cowards not the "big city" criminal masterminds
i have no kids in the house and all of my firearms are within a few yards of myself and my girlfriend in the bedroom so come on in make a noise in the middle of the night... i just hope your plan is better than mine lol
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
O...k... So, that puts you on a different footing than those of us from other places? Is there a tactical home-defense training program they're putting all the kids through these days? I don't remember that from my high school days...
And, if there is, how does this protect your guns, excatly, while you're off at your job? Hey, I'm sitting here at work while someone's loading my safe into a pickup truck. But I sure know how to use my guns!
O.k. So maybe that's true. Again, what are you going to do about it if you aren't there? Insurance might cover it if you don't have many guns, but is this a GOOD thing?
And what about the other citizens in your area who aren't quite as well prepared? Is it o.k. for them to have to wave the "good stuff here" sign?
Really? "Don't mind," as in "I'll live with it because it's the best we've got for the moment?" Or "Don't mind," as in, "I think this is a GOOD thing? I'd choose to put my interests, beliefs, and hobbies into the public view?"
Do you know a lot of them? Is this what they tell you? Or is this common "rural knowledge" about criminals? You know what they say about "common knowlege" -- it isn't worth a big, steaming "Joe Biden."
And what if "most" are? If there are 1,000 too dumb to read the paper, but 1 who's smart about it? How many do you think it will take?
Yes, yes, defending the home front with guns a'blazin'. Very romantic. But any criminal smart enough to scan the classifieds for usable tidbits of info, is also smart enough to go shopping while you (or your neighbors, or whomever) is off at work.
And, even if you do successfully defend the home front, that's not a GOOD thing. Even righteous self-defense can ruin your life in more than one way. We want to avoid these things, not yell, "BRING IT ON!"
Again, are you telling me that it's more worth than worth while to put up with the drawbacks so that you may legally carry? Heck, I completely agree with you! It sure is! We have no disagreement, there.
Or are you defending the state's requirements? Are you saying that this is a worthwile, reasonable, Constitutionally valid, and acceptable arrangment, that accomplishes realistic goals, without serious detriments? If that's the case, than we're absolutely at odds.
-Sam
Everyone giving Delaware Dan a hard time needs to look at the law themselves. He is absolutely right.
The law that says that you can't do that is the law that says it's illegal to carry concealed. That is a very big law.
Now, of course, there are exceptions to this law. It is incumbent on you to find an exception that applies to you, not on the law to find a law that you are breaking, because there is that very major law that you can be charged with.
The law that permits carry based on out of state permits is as follows:
It's very clear. "Licenses/permits issued to the citizens of other states". Not licenses issued on an out of state basis to citizens of this state".
This exception doesn't apply to you, so unless you meet the requirements of another section, such as getting an in state license, you are breaking the law if you carry concealed. It is not very complicated, it took me all of 5 minutes of searching to find that, perhaps the rest of you should have taken that time instead of attacking Delaware Dan.
The law that says that you can't do that is the law that says it's illegal to carry concealed. That is a very big law.
Now, of course, there are exceptions to this law. It is incumbent on you to find an exception that applies to you, not on the law to find a law that you are breaking, because there is that very major law that you can be charged with.
The law that permits carry based on out of state permits is as follows:
It's very clear. "Licenses/permits issued to the citizens of other states". Not licenses issued on an out of state basis to citizens of this state".
This exception doesn't apply to you, so unless you meet the requirements of another section, such as getting an in state license, you are breaking the law if you carry concealed. It is not very complicated, it took me all of 5 minutes of searching to find that, perhaps the rest of you should have taken that time instead of attacking Delaware Dan.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I see DEDan's point, and agree that it may be correct. It took some digging to come up with the exact language that nails it down, but if our lay-persons' interpretations are sound, it appears to achieve that effect. Now, I'd still say it's worth soliciting an attorney's opinion (even better would be that of the State A.G., if they would be so obliging), as I don't trust "us" (including me) to be applying the exact legal understanding.
Dan really worked to find something relavant and I'm almost convinced that he did.
If I was a DE resident, I'd probably call an attorney for an interpretation of the matter before I pursued it either way. (Fortunately... I'm not!)
-Sam
Dan really worked to find something relavant and I'm almost convinced that he did.
If I was a DE resident, I'd probably call an attorney for an interpretation of the matter before I pursued it either way. (Fortunately... I'm not!
)-Sam
nachosgrande
Member
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I'm going to trust other people's interpretation of the law. I'm an engineer, so reading over this stuff just pisses me off. I swear they get fifth graders to write this stuff. You should have to take one semester of technical writing in order to legally write legislation. I just like things to be black and white and basically what they are saying is "go ahead, conceal with the FL license and when you get caught, we'll determine if it's legal or not". They like to leave things open ended for their own advantages. Those of you that say that it's clear, don't be so sure, my wife is a lawyer, and she said it by no means states anywhere that in state residents can't carry with an out of state permit. My best friend who is an attorney in the AG's office concurs. It simply does not address the issue.
It doesn't make sense to me for two reasons. First, when you submit your references, I've been told they have to be people you've known for a substantial period of time or they will deny it. This means if you are new to the state, get ready to wait 10 years to get your permit. That just doesn't sound right to me. Also, because Delaware is such a small state, but has so many jobs, I know hundreds of people (and I'm sure there's thousands more) that live on the state line in either MD, NJ, or PA. These people live, work, hang out with friends, do everything but sleep in DE. So, according to state law, they can get a FL permit and carry in DE. That doesn't make sense to me, giving advantages to non tax paying out of state residents.
It doesn't make sense to me for two reasons. First, when you submit your references, I've been told they have to be people you've known for a substantial period of time or they will deny it. This means if you are new to the state, get ready to wait 10 years to get your permit. That just doesn't sound right to me. Also, because Delaware is such a small state, but has so many jobs, I know hundreds of people (and I'm sure there's thousands more) that live on the state line in either MD, NJ, or PA. These people live, work, hang out with friends, do everything but sleep in DE. So, according to state law, they can get a FL permit and carry in DE. That doesn't make sense to me, giving advantages to non tax paying out of state residents.
nachosgrande, go back and read my last post. You don't need to find something that says you can't do it, the law clearly states that you can't carry concealed without certain exceptions (such as law enforcement, or those with the carry permit).
The exception for those with permits from other states clearly states "citizens of other states". If you choose to get the Florida permit and carry concealed, you are in violation of your state's concealed carry law and subject to whatever penalties come with such a violation.
Everyone who's interpretation of the law says you can do this simply believes that there is no law against it. Clearly, they have ignored the law which states that you can not carry concealed.
The exception for those with permits from other states clearly states "citizens of other states". If you choose to get the Florida permit and carry concealed, you are in violation of your state's concealed carry law and subject to whatever penalties come with such a violation.
Everyone who's interpretation of the law says you can do this simply believes that there is no law against it. Clearly, they have ignored the law which states that you can not carry concealed.
navyretired 1
Member
I can't answer for Fl or DE but my CCW is from Utah and is good in 33 states as a reciprical permit.
Contact Dick Cady certified instructor for Kansas, Utah, Florida and Missouri At [email protected] and I'm sure he can quote the law on Fl CCW in DE.
Contact Dick Cady certified instructor for Kansas, Utah, Florida and Missouri At [email protected] and I'm sure he can quote the law on Fl CCW in DE.
Tom Fury
Member
note to self
While there may be a loophole in the law, the interpretation of that law would be in the hands of the judge in the court you were facing after being arrested by a cop who might not be aware of the loophole, or may have been instructed that in his jurisdiction, it was thought that you really couldn't apply it that way; in any case this means after being arrested, going to jail, making bail, paying an attorneys' fee to go to the judge and explain it to him; not my idea of how I wish to participate in this debate.
Kentucky state law on firearms in vehicles states that storage in "any factory installed receptacle in the car" was legal, not just the glovebox. That should include the map pocket on the back of the passenger seat, where I had slipped my gun so it would be out of sight when I went into the Dunkin Donuts. In Kenton County, they don't know that; I followed the above outlined course for the privilege of having my attorney explain it to the judge; $1500 in legal fees and a large scratch on my early run Combat Commander from the police property room to get it thrown out of court.
Not worth it.
I would not choose to use my day in court to argue the loophole.
Cheers, TF
While there may be a loophole in the law, the interpretation of that law would be in the hands of the judge in the court you were facing after being arrested by a cop who might not be aware of the loophole, or may have been instructed that in his jurisdiction, it was thought that you really couldn't apply it that way; in any case this means after being arrested, going to jail, making bail, paying an attorneys' fee to go to the judge and explain it to him; not my idea of how I wish to participate in this debate.
Kentucky state law on firearms in vehicles states that storage in "any factory installed receptacle in the car" was legal, not just the glovebox. That should include the map pocket on the back of the passenger seat, where I had slipped my gun so it would be out of sight when I went into the Dunkin Donuts. In Kenton County, they don't know that; I followed the above outlined course for the privilege of having my attorney explain it to the judge; $1500 in legal fees and a large scratch on my early run Combat Commander from the police property room to get it thrown out of court.
Not worth it.
I would not choose to use my day in court to argue the loophole.
Cheers, TF
The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which will, when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware.
DelawareDan is right. It's how "persons" "visiting or traveling through" is interpreted. If it said "non-residents" instead of "persons" then an argument could be made otherwise.
Sam1911 is very right though. I don't understand why some of you Delaware resisdents are defending the convoluted process that you have to go through to get a permit. If it's simply that you're happy just to be able to get a permit then that's ridiculous.
The process is designed to dissuade you from going through it. It puts your home at risk of being burglarized and your guns at risk of being stolen and used for criminal purposes. Don't make the mistake of underestimating criminals. They aren't all cowards, they aren't all stupid and they can read a newspaper. They're just morally deficient. They are familiar with the police's response times to requests to investigate a home alarm. They also know that dogs are territorial. Let the dog out of it's home or yard and it becomes much less of a threat.
DelawareDan is right. It's how "persons" "visiting or traveling through" is interpreted. If it said "non-residents" instead of "persons" then an argument could be made otherwise.
Sam1911 is very right though. I don't understand why some of you Delaware resisdents are defending the convoluted process that you have to go through to get a permit. If it's simply that you're happy just to be able to get a permit then that's ridiculous.
The process is designed to dissuade you from going through it. It puts your home at risk of being burglarized and your guns at risk of being stolen and used for criminal purposes. Don't make the mistake of underestimating criminals. They aren't all cowards, they aren't all stupid and they can read a newspaper. They're just morally deficient. They are familiar with the police's response times to requests to investigate a home alarm. They also know that dogs are territorial. Let the dog out of it's home or yard and it becomes much less of a threat.
Just open carry already. No permit required.
A few years back there was a move to change the law from may issue to shall issue. There was a kerfuffle when the bluebloods got their knickers in a twist and the change stalled and died in committee. A former AG opined in the New Journal that open carry was legal in Delaware and anyone who wanted to was welcome to strap on a gun and go about as they please.
Of course, several police departments hadn't heard about this. It caused a bit of a ruckus when people actually started carrying. I open carry and it's not a big deal. Inconvenient in cold weather though.
As already pointed out the way the law is written people who have recently moved to Delaware are excluded from obtaining a CCW due to the requirements to obtain the permit.
A few years back there was a move to change the law from may issue to shall issue. There was a kerfuffle when the bluebloods got their knickers in a twist and the change stalled and died in committee. A former AG opined in the New Journal that open carry was legal in Delaware and anyone who wanted to was welcome to strap on a gun and go about as they please.
Of course, several police departments hadn't heard about this. It caused a bit of a ruckus when people actually started carrying. I open carry and it's not a big deal. Inconvenient in cold weather though.
As already pointed out the way the law is written people who have recently moved to Delaware are excluded from obtaining a CCW due to the requirements to obtain the permit.
hermannr
Member
I think that the requirement to post in the Newspaper is an invasion of privacy, and I think that could be successfully challanged. (if you like to feed the lawyers) Consider the squabble in IL>
There is a good possibility that the silence on the non-resident ccw may very well be intentional here. Like in an intentional loophole for those politicos that do not want to publish they carry?
There is a good possibility that the silence on the non-resident ccw may very well be intentional here. Like in an intentional loophole for those politicos that do not want to publish they carry?
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